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Refusing the breast more and more, 12 weeks

post #1 of 14
Thread Starter 

I'm starting to get really worried about this. I've posted in the last couple weeks about my DD's low weight gain in the last several weeks (1.5-2oz per week for the last two months). She's about 12 weeks now. I have been off dairy for weeks but did try kefir for a few days last week (total of a cup, max) and I don't know if this is just residual consequence of that or what. I'm also at my parents for a week visiting with my two kids.

 

Half the time (and getting to be more than half the time) she will.not.nurse. She just starts crying.  The best time she DOES nurse is at night or after I wake her up from a deep sleep. Because of her low gain, I am trying to feed her more often, but many, many times in the last week that has simply backfired to result in more screaming and missed feedings.  In the last 4-5 days laying down to nurse has helped, but even now, she is crying when we do that.

 

I just don't know what to do. She may have mild tongue tie, but that can't be looked at for another week yet.

 

She never nurses for comfort but loves to suck on a pacifier.

 

She seems to have a good bit of congestion lately that I believe is interfering at times. It took me till today to remember to put breastmilk in it. I have used the suction to get a good bit out and it's yellowish.

 

But mainly, what do I DO when she refuses to nurse?  Do I give up, pump and give her the bottle? Try again and risk two more hours passing without any demand being placed on my breast to keep supply up?  (meaning, I might attempt 45 min later, fail, try again, fail, etc). She needs to eat. I either need to pump or try again in a half hour or so but trying again after a short time has backfired several times. The only thing that has worked is her sleeping for a good nap then waking and eating, but then by that time, it's a good 3-4 hours between feedings, and she's getting 3oz max, more like 2-2.5 oz and that is far too little for her to consume. She'll take a bottle but I worry about doing that too much, yet she needs to eat! What do I do?? I fear the future of our breastfeeding relationship if I offer the bottle too much. Each feeding, I am stressed that she'll suck once or twice and start crying. If so, that is The End of that nursing session.

 

I tried laying down with her tonight just to lay then have my breast near her to latch on if she wanted. She laid there content, then when the nipple was near started crying.

 

In trying to feed her more often to compensate for poor feeding, her naps are getting pretty distrupted and part of the issue may be she's too tired to nurse (esp if she has tongue tie which may tire her more to begin with to nurse).

 

But then other times, it's totally fine! I just don't understand. And I can't afford a private lactation appointment either. I went to a drop in clinic last week but didn't get too much help besides a possible mild tongue tie. 

 

Can this be lasting effects of the dairy and maybe it'll get better?

post #2 of 14
Oh mama! I don't have any great advice but couldn't read & not reply. My best friend lost her bf'ing relationship because she didn't know about tongue tie. Do you have le leche league near you to attend meetings?

Sent from my Evo Shift using TapaTalk, please forgive typos
post #3 of 14

Very quickly, the things I can think of are skin to skin as much as possible, breast compression - look up Dr Jack Newman's website the videos are great - 4 day old with tongue clip and breast compression, Biologocial Nurturing making sure that there is a good deep latch, which then can be hard if there is a tt, the tt thing gets me - even if it is slight, it is obviously having an effect on your baby being able to feed and putting your breastfeeding relationship in jeopardy - i'm sorry that you didn't get a better response.  just out of curiosity, when your baby cries what does her tongue look like?  Is it lifted and rounded, lying flatter on the base of the mouth, is there a slight delve in the middle of the tongue etc, try and describe it to the best you can and i'll have a look into things.  Keep us posted and getting in contact with LLL is a fantastic idea.

post #4 of 14
Thread Starter 

Breast compression has helped in the last week or so to keep her on a bit longer, so that's good.  She gets at least an extra half ounce that way.

 

An experienced LC looked at her tt last week and it seemed like a posterior tie. She put her tongue up once when smiling but when she cries it's in the lower part of her mouth and slightly assymetrical. Seems to gag easily too so that tells me she can't lift the rear of her tongue very well. Plus she only sucks on her bent index finger knuckle, maybe a straight finger is too much. So, in a week we have an appt with a breastfeeding doc who clips ties. I am eager for her to have it looked at by the doc since she can also treat it right there if it is tied.

 

In talking to my husband and mom, we've agreed that it's fine to give her a bottle some each day to bring her up to the level of intake that she needs, offering nursing every time of course. It seems there are 2-3 nursings in a row that fail then other times are better. She slept from 10:30p (woke her from sleep to nurse her, that went well) to 5:30a when I woke her to nurse (went fine) and slept till 8:30 when I woke her to nurse and that went fine too. She took 1oz pumped milk from a bottle after that. It's the feedings coming up next that I have a feeling she'll refuse, during the day. This happened the last two days. The approach I have now is offer a bottle as extra and don't worry about that, and continue to do what I can to make nursing go well and just try to be as observant as I can of her.  I wonder if the congestion at times coupled with tongue tie is too much for some times a day and she just won't nurse as a result.

post #5 of 14

Ok, it's a great idea to go and see a HCP who knows what they are talking about!!  Keep up with the breast compressions even when pumping, how often are you pumping, it's really hard work - I know, but if you can pump on the breast that she is not nursing on plus pump once she has finished then you could really keep her on just breastmilk - try and have 8 pumping sessions a day - alot I know but worth the effort if it helps you achieve your goals - i presume that you would prefer for her to take only breastmilk - correct me if I am wrong, try cup feeding or finger feeding with either an aspiration tube or syringe if you want to try and keep her from getting used to the faster flow on a bottle.  Hope that this doesn't seem too much!!  Good luck!

post #6 of 14
Thread Starter 

How long should I pump after each feeding? Right now it's just a couple minutes after no more milk is coming. She's nursing better today - only had one refusal, so she's nursed five times and had a bottle one time (plus a little bottle after a couple of those nursings). She's not quite as congested today so that may be part of it.  And, she has actually fussed at the bottle some, so I don't feel quite as bad!! LOL.

post #7 of 14

Hi-

 

If it were me I would try to get my baby in for evaluation and treatment of the tie right away.  I would call the doctor and say that your child is failing to gain weight and you are concerned about her well=being.  Can they bump your appointment up?  Can you asked to be put on the list for appointments if there is a cancellation? Can they fit you in an emergency slot?  Or, if it is a specialist, ask the ped to personally call them to fit you in on a STAT basis.  

 

I feel for you ... please keep us posted ... 

 

((((((hug))))

post #8 of 14

In terms of congestion, have you ever tried saline solution nasal spray?  It helps really clear out the nose and heal the congestion.  It's available in any pharmacy -- look for a kids version.  It's like 4 dollars.  As often as needed, you lay them flat and squirt a little in each nose.  They cry etc but it's really quite a great, natural way to clear the nose .  I found my babies eventually got used to the sensation of it and didn't fuss as much.

 

I am seriously surprised you aren't getting more feedback on MDC about your questions / situation.  I feel like I don't have much to offer beyond  good wishes and I wish more people would chime in ... tho' there is good advice here already...

 

post #9 of 14
Thread Starter 

Good idea re: saline, I hadn't thought of that.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Subhuti View Post

Hi-

 

If it were me I would try to get my baby in for evaluation and treatment of the tie right away.  I would call the doctor and say that your child is failing to gain weight and you are concerned about her well=being.  Can they bump your appointment up?  Can you asked to be put on the list for appointments if there is a cancellation? Can they fit you in an emergency slot?  Or, if it is a specialist, ask the ped to personally call them to fit you in on a STAT basis.  

 

I feel for you ... please keep us posted ... 

 

((((((hug))))


The reason she can't be seen is I am out of town at my parents this week since my DH is on a business trip, kiddos and I hanging with them for a break. So I won't be back till Saturday and am in to see the doc next Tuesday (Monday is a holiday). So it's the first day I can get in.

 

Today and yesterday have gone better. She got maybe one full bottle each day for a feeding (pumped milk) and then a bottle here and there to top her off, maybe an ounce each time. I think she got 10 feedings today! At least 9, so I am happy. Her congestion seems better. Perhaps it was party residual dairy from trying the kefir last week plus congestion?  One time tonight she refused to nurse and cried, and my thought was that she was too tired to work at it. So hard to figure out at times.

 

post #10 of 14

Yah, I keep new packages of "Little Noses" saline spray in the cabinet for when colds hit.  BTW, you have to discard them between illnesses....  but it's great.

 

I'm glad the feedings are better ... ten seems very good!

 

Keep us posted ... I really feel for you and hope this all works out.

post #11 of 14

Have you considered colic or silent reflux?  My DD nursed beautifully from the get go, but my DS was miserable even after I went on a very strict elimination diet.  We never did figure out what was causing it, ended up calling it colic.  We did go to a Colic Clinic affiliated with Brown University that was helpful.  They ruled out silent reflux in my DS, but from what you're describing it sounds very similar.  Are you feeding her on a schedule every 3 hours, or just watching her cues?  Is it possible she just eats more when she does nurse and therefor needs to nurse less frequently during the day?    Also, you mention she is low-weight gain the past few weeks - was she big at birth?  Both of my kids were big (9lb. range) and their weight definitely tapered off after birth once they found *their* curve. Hugs, mama!  It sounds like you're doing everything you can.

post #12 of 14

Alicia, firat of all i want to give hugs, it is so very hard to have a baby turn away from a boob, i know i struggle with this. it has very little rhyme or reason it is just heartbreaking when it happens.

 

yes i would work at having some back up milk so you can make sure to give your babe the food they need. as for the refusing, you may look into if you feel ok about suing a nipple shield s a halfway between the boob and a bottle, many of the times my girl apparently refuses my boob, she will end up taking it with a shield and then often i can take the shield away when she is in the rhythm of nursing.  the shield has its own issues, but its better then having to pump and bottle feed in my eyes so i g oto that as a last ditch effort to get her on my boob. i have noticed in my case that overly tired = a crapshoot on if she will nurse and in the tired blur just getting up from a nap is often the best time to get her on my boob.

 

 

anyway hugs hugs hugs, hang in there

post #13 of 14
Thread Starter 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ~Adorkable~ View Post

 

i have noticed in my case that overly tired = a crapshoot on if she will nurse and in the tired blur just getting up from a nap is often the best time to get her on my boob.

 

 

anyway hugs hugs hugs, hang in there

 

That seems to be what is working best for us too. If she is tired, she would rather go to sleep than eat, even if she's hungry. I'm aiming for every two hours during the day with the exception of her long nap (though I have taken to waking her up if it's been two hours to feed her then she goes back down, if she otherwise wouldn't get at least 8 feedings that day). I've started to wonder whether she is so set and liking the routine we have (sleep, eat upon waking then play some before going back down for a nap) that she just doesn't want to eat unless she just woke up? Dunno!  There were a couple times the last two days where she started to fuss but I got her back on by giving paci, her calming, then doing a quick switch and bouncing a little, and she stays on long enough to letdown and goes on to continue nursing.  Lately, the only refusals *seem* to be either being too tired or else already being awake...

 

Definitely not colic...she doesn't cry nearly enough, thankfully!  She had silent reflux as a newborn but she is not exhibiting any of those symptoms anymore. I removed the items from my diet that contributed and it was better with in 2 days and hasn't been an issue since (unless I try dairy).

 

At this point, I'm attributing the refusals to my trial of diary last week and her congestion, both of which seem loads better than three days ago.

post #14 of 14

CookAMH, just a quick tip for congestion - we use one of the baby saline sprays (I think it is called SimplySaline, but for babies, and it can be reused until it runs out b/c it is in an aerosol can) by gently spraying a bit into her nose, and then we immediately follow it with the nasal aspirator (we use something which is spelled close to snotfrieda?) - this seems to clear her nose pretty well, and more easily than without the saline.  (She doesn't like having either the saline spray or the aspirator stuck into her nose, but she does seem to feel better afterwards...)

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