Constant crying after 2nd dose of DTaP

[C is for Cookie]

I put my DS on a somewhat delayed, very selective schedule.  So far, he only had the DTaP series.  His first dose was at 6 months and the second one was at 8 months.  At his first dose, nothing serious happened.  He was his usual self. At his second dose, (which was yesterday) he instantly became fussy. Within 12 hours of the vaccine (at 3 am), he started crying constantly.  He just finally put himself to sleep as I couldn't console him.  It is now 7:30 am. I am tired, DH is cranky, and DS looks worn out. It was a horrible night. He always has been sttn so yes, I find this unusual. The ped has been pushing me to get other vaccines but she respects my choices.  I feel that i should stop the DTaP series, even if this reaction is so small. What do you think?

[witchygrrl]

I would stop.

[lovebeingamomma]

This is what you were given when your baby got the shot: http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/vis/downloads/vis-dtap.pdf  The non-stop crying is listed under the "uncommon" side effect.  So do what makes sense for you.  Do you want to risk that, and the other "uncommon" or even "serious" side effects listed (they list them, because they DO happen), or do you want to risk the uncommon occurance of your baby getting Pertussis (unless it's not uncommon and there's an outbreak in your area?), and the even more uncommon risk that they'll have a serious side effect.  For me, especially with the DTaP, logic said, the risks of the vaccine are greater.  I did a lot of research and this was my conclusion, others come to different conclusions based on individual risk factors.  The hardest part about deciding a vaccine schedule is that ultimately the responsibility is yours.  Since you want to know what I think though, I say go with your gut feeling and stop.  But I encourage you to do the research yourself.

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by lovebeingamomma 

This is what you were given when your baby got the shot: http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/vis/downloads/vis-dtap.pdf  The non-stop crying is listed under the "uncommon" side effect.  So do what makes sense for you.  Do you want to risk that, and the other "uncommon" or even "serious" side effects listed (they list them, because they DO happen), or do you want to risk the uncommon occurance of your baby getting Pertussis (unless it's not uncommon and there's an outbreak in your area?), and the even more uncommon risk that they'll have a serious side effect.  For me, especially with the DTaP, logic said, the risks of the vaccine are greater.  I did a lot of research and this was my conclusion, others come to different conclusions based on individual risk factors.  The hardest part about deciding a vaccine schedule is that ultimately the responsibility is yours.  Since you want to know what I think though, I say go with your gut feeling and stop.  But I encourage you to do the research yourself.

 Totally agree with this. Although it's interesting we were having a bit of a discussion about the whole crying inconsolably after a vaccine in the non-vax forum. A poster there insists that this type of reaction is normal and is a result of being stuck with a needle because after all that's uncomfortable and babies cry to convey that they are uncomfortable. Sorry I don't buy it. Non-stop inconsolable crying is not the result of "being uncomfortable". I believe that the majority of adverse reactions to vaccines are not recognized as reactions at all - therein lies the problem.

[C is for Cookie]

I originally didn't want him to get vaccinated but DH, his dad, his dad's family (for some reason, he discussed this with his niece, a "nurse", and she "became disappointed" that I would not vaccinate him He has a big mouth.) and MY family thought I was crazy. I even got yelled at by his dad (not even my dad yells at me).  It was 1 vs. the vast majority. and the vast majority won. It kills me inside to see him get inoculated.  and this reaction kills me even more. If I stuck with my guts and said "no", this wouldn't happen. I get more and more depressed when I think about it. DH also thinks this is a "normal" reaction. Ugh, whatever....

[Lovemy3girls]

My first child had this reaction and I was told "don't worry, it's just colic." Now I know better! I agree that it's much more than discomfort and if you feel strongly enough about stopping then do so, even in the face of opposition. I have posted this link before but it may help you understand what's causing the crying: http://www.trackingvaccinations.com/default.htm

Please read the links on Ehrlich's Phenomenon (antitoxin), Minimum Lethal Dose, and the information on dead bacterial vaccines (like DTaP). There's a lot to learn!

Good luck.

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by jaymally 

I originally didn't want him to get vaccinated but DH, his dad, his dad's family (for some reason, he discussed this with his niece, a "nurse", and she "became disappointed" that I would not vaccinate him He has a big mouth.) and MY family thought I was crazy. I even got yelled at by his dad (not even my dad yells at me).  It was 1 vs. the vast majority. and the vast majority won. It kills me inside to see him get inoculated.  and this reaction kills me even more. If I stuck with my guts and said "no", this wouldn't happen. I get more and more depressed when I think about it. DH also thinks this is a "normal" reaction. Ugh, whatever....

Oh, wow.  Sorry this happened to you.

I would wait - and I would pull out the "uncommon side effect" as a reason and stop vaxxing until I had time to research vaccination, side effects, disease etc  (but in your case primarily normal versus abnormal reactions).

I would wait because there is very little harm in delay - but if you va x further then decide vaccinating is not the right course for you, you cannot undo it.

[ammiga]

Originally Posted by jaymally 

I put my DS on a somewhat delayed, very selective schedule.  So far, he only had the DTaP series.  His first dose was at 6 months and the second one was at 8 months.  At his first dose, nothing serious happened.  He was his usual self. At his second dose, (which was yesterday) he instantly became fussy. Within 12 hours of the vaccine (at 3 am), he started crying constantly.  He just finally put himself to sleep as I couldn't console him.  It is now 7:30 am. I am tired, DH is cranky, and DS looks worn out. It was a horrible night. He always has been sttn so yes, I find this unusual. The ped has been pushing me to get other vaccines but she respects my choices.  I feel that i should stop the DTaP series, even if this reaction is so small. What do you think?

How do you know the reaction was small? Your ds is 8 months old. He was communicating that there was a problem. You don't know what the problem is.

If you feel you should stop, you and your dh need to talk to each other, and NOT everyone else in your family.

[ma2two]

"Carefully consider benefits and risks before administering DAPTACEL to persons with a history of: fever ≥40.5°C (105°F), hypotonic-hyporesponsive episode (HHE) or persistent, inconsolable crying lasting ≥3 hours within 48 hours after a previous  pertussis-containing vaccine"

http://www.fda.gov/downloads/BiologicsBloodVaccines/Vaccines/ApprovedProducts/UCM103037.pdf

"If temperature ≥105˚F, collapse or shock-like state, or persistent, inconsolable crying lasting ≥3 hours have occurred within 48 hours after receipt of a pertussis-containing vaccine, or if seizures have occurred within 3 days after receipt of a pertussis-containing vaccine, the decision to give INFANRIX should be based on potential benefits and risks."

http://www.fda.gov/downloads/BiologicsBloodVaccines/Vaccines/ApprovedProducts/UCM124514.pdf

The reaction was NOT small.

[ammiga]

Originally Posted by jaymally 

I originally didn't want him to get vaccinated but DH, his dad, his dad's family (for some reason, he discussed this with his niece, a "nurse", and she "became disappointed" that I would not vaccinate him He has a big mouth.) and MY family thought I was crazy. I even got yelled at by his dad (not even my dad yells at me).  It was 1 vs. the vast majority. and the vast majority won. It kills me inside to see him get inoculated.  and this reaction kills me even more. If I stuck with my guts and said "no", this wouldn't happen. I get more and more depressed when I think about it. DH also thinks this is a "normal" reaction. Ugh, whatever....

There is a difference between something being common and something being normal. What your ds went through was not normal, based on your description of your ds's normal behavior.

Was it a common reaction? Some might say it is, but the link above from the CDC says it's not.

[C is for Cookie]

Originally Posted by ammiga 

How do you know the reaction was small? Your ds is 8 months old. He was communicating that there was a problem. You don't know what the problem is.

If you feel you should stop, you and your dh need to talk to each other, and NOT everyone else in your family.

Me and DH live under his dad's roof. I don't have a car so I have no choice but his dad to take me and DS to his pediatrician appts (DH has to work during these appointments...because his pediatrician is a resident, she only has Monday afternoons available.) I tell his dad that I can talk for myself (I am the shy type unfortunately) BUT he insists on going into the appointments with me (we REALLY butt heads on parenting). ONE time, the pediatrician came in to the room, he started talking as if he was the father. I told him "wait, I am the mother... I make the decisions. not you!" and he went on and on about how I should listen to the pediatrician because she knows better than I do. I wanted to storm out of there because he caused such a scene. He yelled at me in front of the resident pediatrician AND the doctor.  The doctor tried to calm him down. I felt like the worst mother in the world and I cried because it was such an embarrassment. It was one of the worst appointments EVER. I never want him to come to the appointments with me again. I make DH get some time off from work to go with me instead, but he only has so much vacation time. So, his dad has no choice but to hear every health decision I make for DS...even if he didn't go in the room with me to see the pediatrician, the pediatrician has to tell him.. and she knows he is just the grandpa and he has no say... and with that, he talks about it to my dad and everyone in his family. I mean, really? Do they HAVE to know? I made it known that it pisses me off that he does that. He doesn't care. He says that he doesn't live in a fantasy world like I do and think everything will be flowers, lollipops, and rainbows.

From what I understand in DH's perspective, his dad was depressed for a long time ever since his love of his life passed away 10 years ago. Now that DS is here, he is happy once again and wants to do everything he can to keep him safe and alive, even if it means going against my views of keeping him safe.

It's such a messed up situation. And yes, to me, that reaction is not small. But according to everyone else in the medical field, it is small. I am going to stop the dtap series next time but it is going to be a hard battle to win.

[MoonWillow]

I'm so sorry! We had a lot of negative pediatrician experiences before settling on one who respects our views.

It sounds like you have some pretty serious boundary issues going on with your FIL and that the vax issue is a symptom of this. I know you said that you are shy but I can hear your strength in your posts! Don't sell yourself short!

I cannot imagine my father in law yelling at me and nobody but nobody makes choices for my kids except their father and myself. Period.      

[kathymuggle]

A few ideas, take what works, and stay strong mama!:

How old is DS?  Can you move to an "only see the doctor when the baby is sick plan?  as opposed to at 2, 4 and 6 months?  The 2, 4 and 6 months is largely a vax scheduel.  

DH needs to take time off work.  Go to the 2, 4 and 6 month appointments - but bring DH.  Use vacation time and call in sick.  Thankfully after the 2,4,6 month schedule you might be free to 9-12 months. 

Use public transit or taxi to get to the ped visits.

Take really deep breaths and tell FIL you need to see the doctor alone to discuss private matters.  Do this at the visit, just before going in.  If he makes a scene stand firm.  The doctor will take your side - confidentiality is a must.

Let FIL or have DP let FIL know that you love him and want him to have a good relationship with his grandson, but his butting into parental affairs is driving you away.  He needs to relax and step back or he will drive you away.  Is this what he wants?

Sometimes writing letter work where conversations do not.

Say:  "You can drive me to the appointment but you cannot come in".  Get his assurance he will not come in.  If he will not give it, find another way to the appointment.

Some doctors (switch doctors if need be) do have evening hours when perhaps you partner is not working

[ma2two]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaymally 
It's such a messed up situation. And yes, to me, that reaction is not small. But according to everyone else in the medical field, it is small. I am going to stop the dtap series next time but it is going to be a hard battle to win.

Please re-read my previous message. The vaccine package inserts, written by the vaccine manufacturers, and approved by the FDA, indicate that the reaction is NOT small. Print out the package inserts that I linked to in my previous post, and highlight the parts that I bolded. They are on the first page on both package inserts. This should make your battle a lot easier.

I also don't understand why your father in law has to be in the room with the pediatrician. And if he is not in the room, I don't understand why the pediatrician talks to him afterwards. By law, the doctor will be forced to stop giving information to your father in law if you tell him to stop. Your father in law is your "ride." If you took a taxi, you wouldn't let the taxi driver in the room or let the doctor talk to him afterwards. By the way, can you take a taxi or a bus?

[SilverMoon010]

I would have to leave good 'ol pop-in-law in the car while you go in for your appointment or find another ride.  He is totally overstepping his boundaries and causing you unnecessary stress.

[boomer78]

Jaymally:  Sorry this happened to you.  

Next time when you go in for a WBV (if you go - you don't have to), leave FIL in the car.  Can you take public transport if it gets complicated?  He does not have the right to go there with you unless you want him to.  This is your child. 

As for vaxing, I would not continue.  What does your instinct tell you?  Listen to it.  If you don't want to vax, have a conversation with your DH and give him some facts. When a child cries for a long time and can't get soothed by his own parents that he is used to a finds comfort in, something is wrong.  How else would he tell you at his age?  Oh and as far as 'crying from the injection itself'...from many hours afterwards...I don't believe its' even possible.