Should I"Accidentally" TTC? Unique situation

[Newother]

Apologies for the long post.  My story of debating about whether or not I should start TTC accidentally on purpose is somewhat unique, as my husband appears to be extremely ambivalent about having a child, yet refuses to make a decision on it at the same time, and he keeps giving me clues to go ahead and conceive on "accident." 

We've been married 7 years now, and together for almost 10 years.  Years ago we talked about having a child, and he wanted to wait two more years.  Then after another 2 years, he said the same thing again after we talked and talked and talked about it.  Then another 2 years, and so on and so forth.  I've always respected his wishes, we were young 7 years ago and now we are in a much better financial situation, more mature, etc.  But even now, as of last winter, he still says he wants to wait.  But he is more ambivalent this time around.  I mention children to him off and on but he's had weird responses.  Once when I asked him when to have kids he said "I don't care, that's your domain" (half jokingly) and that that's up to the woman.  Another time his response was that he felt weird TTC and that "children are supposed to just come."  Another time he said he wanted to definitely have 3 children in the future but he won't pinpoint at what age to start (and when he does that age keeps changing, always 2 years ahead).  And we had a real pregnancy scare about a year ago (I had a very early miscarriage and it was totally an accident) and when I told him he was actually really happy and smiling from ear to ear, and he said "That's good, Newother. Most people have their first by now."  (I was actually not quite ready at the moment and he was trying to cheer ME up about it).  I later saw that he was researching all the good, cheery stuff about becoming a dad on his computer, but my period came a week after that.  And then last winter, his response was that he wasn't sure about when to have a child but he refused to even talk about it anymore.  Since then I haven't brought it up anymore, because I don't want to be "nagging" him or pushing something that he's not ready for.  Btw, all these years we have used the withdrawal method and TTA, no BC pills or condoms.  But we've been TTA for over a year now and he doesn't want to pull out anymore.  He also understands that I am fertile at certain times of the month but won't pull out unless I tell him to.   

It's like he's trying to put all the pressure on me to make the decision for both of us, but I'm afraid of making such a huge decision for him only to find that he doesn't really want it or he changed his mind because he never really gave me a definitive answer in the first place.  He doesn't seem to want to be an active participant no matter what we do, only a passive partner.  Btw, he's like this even with going out to eat--I ALWAYS have to choose where. 

Its been really bothering me that I feel like he is controlling whether and when we have a child.  Its apparently committing the ultimate sin to conceive "accidentally," but something seems strange about the fact that women are expected to have sex with their husbands on a regular basis and all of the other things that husbands want, but many women want to have a child at some point and its easy for their men to just keep putting it off irrespective of the woman's fertility lifecycle.  But at the same time its as if DH is signaling to me that he wouldn't mind if I did.  He is just not interested in planning to have children.  He's expressed that he would love to have a teenage son in his 40's, but he doesn't seem to acknowledge that you have to have the kid by 30 for him to be a teenager in your 40's!!  I am 30 now and I fear I've missed years of my prime fertility and not even sure how long it would take me to even get pregnant if we did start to TTC.  Deep down I also fear that I am secretly infertile, considering that we haven't had one by accident all this time without using modern contraception. 

I don't really know what to do.  He seems like he really wouldn't care if I did it on purpose, as long as he didn't know about it.  But at the same time he won't say that he wants to have a child at any time and it would be wrong to force him.  Any thoughts? 

[Jaimee]

First welcome to MDC!    Second, wow, that's a tough situation!  I am wondering if you might get more responses if you re-post in the Family Planning forum. 

It sounds to me like your dh wants children but doesn't want to put forth the emotional effort to TTC.   Is there anything in his past or within your social circle that might be scaring him about the process?  TTC can be quite the roller coaster and some people really dislike getting actively, emotionally invested in the outcome each cycle preferring things to "just happen." But I had the same thought as you when I read your post... you only had the one pregnancy scare in all these years of using a risky method of contraception.  It could be possible that once you actually switch over to TTC that it would take some time. The good news is that you did get pregnant.

My advice would be to start charting your temp and cervical fluid.  I think that it would help you to feel better for now.  You would be actively DOING something regarding your fertility.  You could see when you're gearing up to O, the condition of your cervical fluid, when you do O, how long your luteal phase is, etc.  All these data will help you in several ways.  It will paint a picture of what is happening in your body so that if you two do finally decide to actively TTC you will know when best to time DTD and be able to accurately count days after O so you know when to expect AF and when to test.   It can also pinpoint any potential problems in your cycle that you could work on with tweaks to your diet and exercise routine.   And if it does turn out that there is a larger problem you will have good information to give to a reproductive expert so that better decisions can be made quicker about a treatment course.  If charting interests you, I recommend reading Taking Charge of Your Fertility by Toni Weschler  and entering your data on a free site like www.fertilityfriend.com so that you can share your charts on this forum for  tips and help deciphering anything confusing.

My second bit of advice would be to more thoroughly talk with your dh.  It sounds like you have absolutely tried to do this several times and it has not been successful.  But you have every right for your feelings to be heard.  From what you're saying, I have to agree that it sounds like he's giving you permission to get pregnant "on accident."  BUT, to me this is a very risky thing. I can tell you feel that way too and would prefer to both be on the same page about this.  I think that  is absolutely the right course of action.  He needs to be an active participant in this or else you open the door for comments like "well I didn't want to have a baby now anyway!" or  "it's your fault you got pregnant!" when times are rough.  And times will be rough occasionally- that's parenting!  Have you blatantly told him that you want to be pregnant NOW?  That you're ready NOW?  That you'd like to try NOW?  Perhaps if you were firmer on your stance he would be firmer on his- either way.  Perhaps he would surprise you and say, "Great!  Let's go for it!"  Or perhaps he could finally tell you why he's been hesitant.  Perhaps seeking a third person to help mediate the conversation could help.  It could be a close personal friend or a therapist.  Sometimes even suggesting getting a third party involved is enough to get someone talking! 

Anyway, I wish the best of luck in coming to a mutual decision.  Keep posting if you have more questions or need to vent some more! 

[ISISandOSIRIS]

I would talk to him about it and ask how he feels about no longer withdrawing and to "let what happens, happen."  He may go along with a more "go with the flow" attitude. As pp suggested, you may want to start charting, even if it's just to get to know your body and cycles.  I would take it one step at a time.  Just focus on getting him to be okay with no longer withdrawing (obviously with an awareness that you *could* get pregnant), and if you don't successfully become pregnant by 6 months to a year, than start thinking about the next step.  That way, you're not being deceptive and it may actually be the route he wants to take. Now, if he flat-out says "no," then I personally wouldn't "try" to get pregnant "by accident" because he obviously does not want kids.  But based on what else you said, I suspect he won't flat-out say "no" because that would be a very decisive thing to say   

[July09Mama]

Your dh sounds a lot like mine. With our dd, we were very definitely trying for a few months, and it worked, but was kinda stressful. My dh has said that if we have another one, next time he wants to just do away with the bc and just let whatever happens, happen. I wonder if some of it has to do with not having to be disappointed or worried if things don't happen as quickly as we are led to believe it will happen (which is usually quicker than I think most people experience). I would also recommend talking about not trying, not preventing and see what happens. 

[TenzinsMama]

I particularly appreciated Jaimie's points about considering what may happen if a child came along, if dh wasn't completely on board.  My DS is 11 months old now, and it hasn't always been as smooth as I had imagined having a child would be.  I wouldn't say that I had romanticized it during the TTC stage, but, I would say that there are things that happen that I wouldn't have thought of.  Like, how much life changes, even in little ways... I struggle with getting things done around the house, my DH and I have little 'couple' time, we have zilcho 'alone' time, and I definitely miss some of things that I realize now I had taken for granted-- such as being able to do spur of the moment things, sleeping in, to name a couple.  Having said all of this, there is definitely no love like the love for your child, and it can be so rewarding... and, I should also put in here that our DS had colic for the first 3 months and he isn't a great sleeper-- so I'm sure that my lens is being colored by that, in agreeing with Jaimie that caution is a good idea.  It's weird, my DH and I are closer in some ways but in other ways we have grown apart-- I don't think we will stay apart in those domains because we both wanted our child equally as much, and we have a pretty healthy relationship-- our son will hopefully sleep good one day soon, and he will develop in other ways that will make some of the things easier... We're hoping for a second, and hoping just as much that the next one would be a much better sleeper.  (11 months of sleep deprivation is brutal.)

I wonder, does your DH think he needs to wait until he is 100% ready?  Because I don't think that is possible or realistic, as humans there is always a part of us which is ambivalent about change, even wonderful change.  I don't believe we can be compeletely fearless when it comes to the unknown.  Good luck to you as you navigate through this, it definitely sounds very difficult for you to be experiencing this and my heart goes out to you.

[JollyGG]

My approach would be a simple and direct discussion letting him know that you want kids and you are ready to be pregnant and if he doesn't want children the responsibility for insuring that doesn't happen are on him.

So basically. I would let him know that you are not/will not be on birth control for the foreseeable future, you will not be warning him about where you are in your cycle (but here is where I keep that information if you want to look it up) and take it from there. There is no reason he can't take some responsibility in this. If he truly doesn't want kids he'll start wearing a condom. If he's as open or ambivalent as you suspect he won't do anything. This way you don't feel like your are deceiving anyone.

[RenoKirbyButtrs]

You know, I think there is some appeal to the "whatever happens, happens" attitude. As much as fertility charting is interesting and educational, there is something exciting about the idea of just going on, living your life and discovering at some point that the baby you want is on it's way. My husband and I discussed doing this when I got my IUD out, and I really thought it sounded like a great idea. I didn't want to invest all my time, money and energy into TTC and become fixated on it, which we had seen some of our friends do. I think watching that process really frightened my husband away from trying more than the responsibility of parenting did.

But then the IUD came out and suddenly I realized that if I adopted a not trying, not preventing attitude, that I would be walking around every day wondering if I was pregnant. Some people are OK with that. But I'm a girl who likes her wine, and her espresso, and her sushi, etc. It's very uncomfortable to ask yourself with everything you put into your body "could I be pregnant?" It's a sensation I think most men would have trouble understanding. So to the male SOs of the world, NTNP may seem like a way more fun way to get pregnant, and for obvious reasons. Maybe this is your husband's take on the situation. Is he really opposed to having a baby? Or would he rather skip the work and occasional heartache of TTC and have an "oops" baby?

I found quickly that because my period is utterly unpredictable, charting was a better outlet for my anxiety than agonizing over every beer or latte. It gives you a sense of connection with your body and control over the process of getting pregnant. I agree with the PPs that you should probably not go totally rogue and TTC without being open about it. But, if you want to chart and he'd rather be sheltered from it, you could share your joys and concerns on these boards and just be a little extra seductive at O time.  He could be NTNP and you could be TTC -- once you've discussed it of course!

[JMJ]

It sounds to me like he is leaning towards not pulling out and just seeing what happens.  Could you point that out to him and ask him if he really means that because you think it's a good idea too?

[StephandOwen]

I would sit him down and tell him that since you are not on any birth control, then not pulling out could result in a baby. The choice and responsibility for avoiding that situation is totally in his hands. Then end the conversation. Next time you all are dtd, you need not say a word about pulling out. He's a grown adult and he knows what he's doing. If he chooses to not pull out, then he's made his choice about having a baby loud and clear. There's no need to baby your dh and tell him every single time you're dtd that he needs to pull out.

[vivica2]

i agree with the others. if hes not pulling out, he want kids... he just doenst want to make the decision about it.  so i say...you dont even need to talk about it. just have fun..and see what happens. :)

[zinemama]

Sounds like he's figured out a very effective and (obnoxiously passive-aggressive) strategy to keep from having to make an adult decision that he doesn't want to make. He's successfully strung you along for seven years now, and I don't see that changing anytime soon. I would be beyond angry with him at this point. I'd tell him to sit down with me and have the discussion like the grownup he is. And if he was unwilling to do that, I'd very seriously reconsider having kids with this man.

[JMJ]

Originally Posted by zinemama 

Sounds like he's figured out a very effective and (obnoxiously passive-aggressive) strategy to keep from having to make an adult decision that he doesn't want to make. He's successfully strung you along for seven years now, and I don't see that changing anytime soon. I would be beyond angry with him at this point. I'd tell him to sit down with me and have the discussion like the grownup he is. And if he was unwilling to do that, I'd very seriously reconsider having kids with this man.

Ouch!  I would be careful about judging a man I've never met based on his wife's frustration.  From what the OP says, it seems like he wants to just let nature take its course at this point.  This assumption that we should have 100% control over when we have babies is a rather recent viewpoint in the course of human history.  For most of history, a married couple just assumed that they would have babies when they had babies.  It's really not that immature to want to just allow things to happen when they do and not be strict about preventing or making it happen.  It has a lot of potential to reduce heartache as a couple tries to conceive for cycle after cycle or prevents unsuccessfully.  Planning your family doesn't always go according to plan.  I can completely understand how somebody, especially somebody who is naturally minded (like somebody who might fit in on MDC) would be attracted to the method of family planning practiced throughout history... let babies come when they come.

[RosieL]

OP, how does your husband know what times of the month to pull out?

[zinemama]

Originally Posted by JMJ 

Ouch!  I would be careful about judging a man I've never met based on his wife's frustration.  From what the OP says, it seems like he wants to just let nature take its course at this point.  This assumption that we should have 100% control over when we have babies is a rather recent viewpoint in the course of human history.  For most of history, a married couple just assumed that they would have babies when they had babies.  It's really not that immature to want to just allow things to happen when they do and not be strict about preventing or making it happen.  It has a lot of potential to reduce heartache as a couple tries to conceive for cycle after cycle or prevents unsuccessfully.  Planning your family doesn't always go according to plan.  I can completely understand how somebody, especially somebody who is naturally minded (like somebody who might fit in on MDC) would be attracted to the method of family planning practiced throughout history... let babies come when they come.

Well, I don't know what else I'm supposed to judge him on, other than what his wife writes!

I totally agree that the notion of having control over when we have children is a recent thing. But now that we are in fact able to actively plan these things - always allowing for nature to take an unexpected hand - it is rather unusual - and yes, I'll stand by it, immature - for one member of a couple to refuse to even talk about when to have a child, despite repeated attempts by his partner to have that discussion. This really strikes me as more a relationship issue than about the idea of "letting things happen" vs. actively trying. If that's what the OP's husband really wants to do, he could talk about it with his wife, so that she wouldn't feel guilty about getting pregnant whenever it happens to be, instead of stringing her along, the way he has been. For a woman in her 30s to want to make plans for having kids is totally normal. His attitude toward that normal desire is troubling.

[Stevi]

Hmmm... I think if it were me I would just simply tell him that you agree to just let things happen, and will therefore no longer be telling him when to pull out.

I'm sorry you're in such a tough spot. I spent my fertile years with an SO who kept putting me off...  And then we split up when I was about 35. To give him a little credit, he felt so guilty that he donated his sperm up until he passed away suddenly a few years later. (Didn't work, but at least he stepped up.)

[Stevi]

I came back to add another idea.

Go hit the garage sales tomorrow and come home with all sorts of baby stuff. Then he will have to at least mention it, and you'll have an opening to tell him that you have decided to stop avoiding. I'm not suggesting you say any of this nastily, just that you be firm so that you can have a discussion that actually concludes with a firm decision.

[morganxobrooks]

I'd try to conceive accidentally. If he isn't strongly opposed to the idea, I'd go for it. Good luck (: