Pooch with gut issues

[Casha'sMommy]

We're adopting an almost 2 year old Anatolian Shepherd on Sunday. I was just told today that she may not have been raw fed (agree or disagree just please keep reading) her whole life and now has some yeasty ear issues so I'm thinking maybe some kibble has caused some gut problems.

Here's my question:

Have you ever fed your pooch water or milk kefir? How about kefir grains?

How would you recommend dealing with her gut issues?

TIA

Cate

[Mirzam]

I asked the experts on the rawfeeding yahoo group about kefir when I first got my dog and they said that the grains and kefir were pretty much useless because a dog's stomach acid will kill them off before they can do anything beneficial. I would feed her plenty of raw green tripe which is packed with enzymes and lactic acid. Once she is consistently on raw, I am sure she will improve. Has she had any vaxes or been on flea, tick and worm meds? These all will have a negative effect on the immune system, so healing will always be more problematic. You might want to look into homeopathics if the symptoms are causing distress.

Congrats on your new doggy!

ETA, mixing kibble with raw often causes gastric distress, so once she is completely raw you may see an improvement.

[Casha'sMommy]

Here's the deal.

The dog was sold by the breeder to a woman who was later unable to care for her so the dog was returned to the breeder. btw, the breeder is completely NR and the dog has been eating raw but did have kibble for about 4 months. Going raw is not the issue and I'm planning to order some tubes of green tripe for her asap. I'm holding off on actually ordering it in case something doesn't work out Sunday.

The pooch is 2yo, had one rabies w that darn previous owner but nothing since.

I asked the same basic question on a raw feeding yahoo group as well as my local wapf and go a much different response. What's your personal feelings on the matter? I'm thinking it might be worth a try. I have the grains so what the heck but I don't want to cause her problems is my only issue. y/k So long as it's safe, I think I'll give anything a go to get this girl back on track.

THANKS!

Cate

[lonegirl]

Have swabs been done on the ears to rule out bacteria/mites? Or is it just assumed to be yeast?

[Casha'sMommy]

With the otherwise amazing health of this raw fed and naturally reared animal, mites are highly unlikely and it is assumed also by the distinct aroma yeasty ears tend to have.

eta:The breeder also mentioned the ears started to be an issue when she went into heat. This also happened to her sister. Could be coincidence however, 4 months of kibble does not do a doggy gut good.

[Mirzam]

Originally Posted by Casha'sMommy 

Here's the deal.

The dog was sold by the breeder to a woman who was later unable to care for her so the dog was returned to the breeder. btw, the breeder is completely NR and the dog has been eating raw but did have kibble for about 4 months. Going raw is not the issue and I'm planning to order some tubes of green tripe for her asap. I'm holding off on actually ordering it in case something doesn't work out Sunday.

The pooch is 2yo, had one rabies w that darn previous owner but nothing since.

I asked the same basic question on a raw feeding yahoo group as well as my local wapf and go a much different response. What's your personal feelings on the matter? I'm thinking it might be worth a try. I have the grains so what the heck but I don't want to cause her problems is my only issue. y/k So long as it's safe, I think I'll give anything a go to get this girl back on track.

THANKS!

Cate

That's awesome you have been able to find a NR dog, albeit with a blip!

I am not sure the WAPF people would know a heck of a lot about canine digestion, but then again, the "pros" on rawfeeding may not be so knowledgeable about probiotics. I certainly don't think the kefir would do any harm, so it is worth a try. I would just give the grains though because milk tends to coat dog's teeth, I only give Oscar a little raw milk as a treat every now and then.

I believe that yeast is actually a healing symptom, so I would probably not treat it very aggressively and let it do its job of, but that's me. I have a very different view of health and healing than the vast majority! 

Good luck for Sunday, I hope it all works out.

[Casha'sMommy]

Here she is! We're thrilled with her. She is so well behaved and quite tolerant of our children, especially considering she's never lived with children before.

[Mirzam]

Yay, congratulations, she is absolutely beautiful and looks to be in superb condition. Love the cute pink bow. What's her name?

[Casha'sMommy]

Her name is Drama and she has quickly become a very beloved pet!

Mirzam, I'm interested in your pov regarding yeast. In my mind a dogs yeasty ear would point the finger at a yeast overgrowth in her body which would, in Drama's situation, then lead me to think the kibble were the most likely culprit.

School me in your way of thinking, if you don't mind

Thanks

Cate

[Mirzam]

Check out my recent post (cancer video link) on the aunaturelk9s list for detailed info (don't want to post it here, as it is never popular!). Briefly, fungus plays a supportive role in the body, by removing unwanted (could be termed diseased, but that really isn't accurate), tissue. The kibble was likely to have made her healing support system less than efficient, but I bet once she is settled in and used to eating raw again, things will improve.

[mamayogibear]

Prozyme! I used to have a German Shepherd decades ago and he would get sick to his stomach if he ate any kibble. I was too young to buckle down and home cook for this dog (especially since I am vegan and feeding raw meat just made me feel sick). If I made him brown rice, peas and carrots and boiled chicken he would be okay but I was not that into cooking. Anyway, his vet told me to gradually switch him from homemade food to kibble over a couple of weeks and add prozyme to his food. After the two weeks he was eating only kibble and did not have any problems. I still use prozyme on my dogs food because it helps them digest their kibble better, it's like probiotic supplements for pooches.

I would be careful about giving dogs anything with dairy in it. I don't remember if it is the casein (milk fat) or lactose (milk sugar) but the canine pancreas does not produce the proper enzymes to digest it. A few years ago over memorial weekend my friend left his dog with me to watch and warned me 'she might get a little sick she ate a pound of cheese and a tub of butter from the cooler'. Well she didn't get a little sick, she almost died. But since keefer is a ferment that might be different.

[Casha'sMommy]

mamayogibear-I happen to make water kefir not milk kefir so the dairy isn't an issue. Can you even imagine having that problem?

Mirzam- I did see that post but I haven't watched it yet. I'm doing that now. *hanging my head in shame* ;-)

thanks,

Cate

[mamayogibear]

Nope can't imagine it with water kefir... I make soy milk kefir and sometimes share it with my dogs.

Originally Posted by Casha'sMommy 

mamayogibear-I happen to make water kefir not milk kefir so the dairy isn't an issue. Can you even imagine having that problem?

Mirzam- I did see that post but I haven't watched it yet. I'm doing that now. *hanging my head in shame* ;-)

thanks,

Cate

[greenmagick]

Beautiful girl...congrats!

I do know of several people who have had good luck using kefir to help get the gut back in place in dogs.  

[Casha'sMommy]

We picked Drama up on Sunday so she's been with us for 4 full days now and she was doing a fair amount of ear scratching. She has shaken her head a few times today but I haven't seen her scratch her ear once. That ear is a bit dirty so I'm planning to clean it out today but I'm hopeful we're already seeing a little improvement.

I'm trying to sort through what might be different to attempt to determine the reason for any improvement. She's been getting a single probiotic until my next batch of kefir is ready and I've added Salmon Oil capsules to her diet as well until dh has a chance to go fishing. She's had chicken, beef once, and one egg since being with us and I'm pretty certain this isn't much different from what she was eating with the breeder.

If the ear is indeed improving I'm guessing it's the probiotic.

Although, I would like to hear Mirzam's pov on that as well.

Thanks for all your help ladies!

Cate

eta:

Mirzam, I'm having a heck of a time locating the link on ANk9. Can you point me in the right direction? Thanks!