Poisoned In the Womb - Page 3

[purslaine]

Originally Posted by BeckyBird 

"Umm... I think you really missed the point."


No Pers, I did not miss your point. I got your point.  Surely, doing the hokey pokey can not be blamed for miscarriages.  I  simply did not appreciate your comparison, although I know you were just using hokey pokey as a silly example. As if to dismiss the thousands of concerned women who question the safety of the vaccine. Your comparison was the same type of humor as this:  "Silly women who have lost your babies, the shot cannot be to blame! Why, if we blame the shot, we can blame miscarriages on just about anything, like doing the hokey pokey or watching too much tv! See how silly it all is?"

When dealing with stories of loss, using humor is not the best choice! To dismiss the anecdotes of women who believe their losses were caused by a drug, well, what can I say? It is a grave concern, and I guess I'm the only one who disliked your "lighthearted, harmless" comparison.

I almsot never dismiss an individuals story.  If you said you genuinely believed the vax contributed to your miscarriage - I would believe you.  

However, there is another part of my brain ( a more mathy side, perhaps) that would want to see numbers on a wider scale before saying flu vaccines causes miscarriage.  If miscarriage rates did not rise since the advent of vaccinating pregnant women, the vaccine probably is not responsible for miscarriage.  That does not mean any individuals story is untrue, it simply means the data does not show vaccines cause miscarriage.

I do not dismiss anecdotal evidence outright (that is another post!)- but ancedotal evidence has more validity when it is backed up by some numbers.

[Kanna]

I WISH that the stuff I've seen were only ads.....but I work in the medical field and I saw a kid die from tetanus. It wasn't pretty.

[Paigekitten]

And I've held a baby dying from meningitis, but that isn't the only information on which I've based my decisions to not vax.

[Alenushka]

at my work, several babies died from pertussis. I had sever mumps because I did not have a booster.

i had held hand of several people who died from Hep B.

h1n1 poses the most risk to pregnant women that is why vaccination is  encouraged.

Yes, vaccines have small risks but to me, illnesses are more likely .

Originally Posted by Kanna 

I WISH that the stuff I've seen were only ads.....but I work in the medical field and I saw a kid die from tetanus. It wasn't pretty.

[purslaine]

Originally Posted by Alenushka 

at my work, several babies died from pertussis. I had sever mumps because I did not have a booster.

i had held hand of several people who died from Hep B.

Where do you work?

[pers]

Originally Posted by BeckyBird 

"Umm... I think you really missed the point."

No Pers, I did not miss your point. I got your point.  Surely, doing the hokey pokey can not be blamed for miscarriages.  I  simply did not appreciate your comparison, although I know you were just using hokey pokey as a silly example. As if to dismiss the thousands of concerned women who question the safety of the vaccine. Your comparison was the same type of humor as this:  "Silly women who have lost your babies, the shot cannot be to blame! Why, if we blame the shot, we can blame miscarriages on just about anything, like doing the hokey pokey or watching too much tv! See how silly it all is?"

When dealing with stories of loss, using humor is not the best choice! To dismiss the anecdotes of women who believe their losses were caused by a drug, well, what can I say? It is a grave concern, and I guess I'm the only one who disliked your "lighthearted, harmless" comparison.

Nope, you missed my point.  Either that or you are deliberately ignoring it because it is easier to try paint me as cruelly mocking women who have suffered loss than it is to actually answer my point. 

I needed an example of something totally innocent that could not reasonably be connected to miscarriage and is also not commonly done in pregnancy.  My first thought, a single drink of alcohol, would not serve well as while one small drink probably wouldn't cause harm, it is something many women do worry about.  In hindsight, the hokey pokey doesn't work well either, because there could be some concern over falls, however unlikely.  Reciting the preamble to the constitution would have been better. 

My point was: miscarriages happen every day.  A lot of them.  It is terribly, but expected, and not surprising.  In fact, what would be very surprising is if there weren't any women miscarrying soon after being given a flu shot - a large group of women with few or no miscarriages would be rather unusual and worth looking into to see what was causing the reduction of loss.  

I feel nothing but sadness for women who have undergone loss, and I understand why they question their choices in pregnancy and wonder if something they did - especially something unusual like a flu shot - could have caused it.  But I am frustrated with people who run around scaremongering and claiming that the flu shot must be causing miscarriages simply because the rate of miscarriage doesn't drop far below normal for women who get the shot.  If you want to say that as a fact, at the very least you need some evidence showing that women who get the shot are more likely to suffer pregnancy loss after getting it than the general population or women who don't or at least a hint that the rate of pregnancy loss were higher the year so many women got the vaccine than it had been in the preceding years. Something to at least hint that there might be some relationship between the two besides two common things coincidentally happening at close to the same time in some cases. 

[jaylily]

I think I get your point pers

I do not get vaccinated at all while pregnant and certainly did not rush out to get vaccinated even while I was pregnant during the H1N1 scare... Now I did have a m/c.  I don't know WHY I m/c, but had I got the H1N1 shot and m/c shortly afterward, I could have easily suspected that the shot might have been why I m/c.  But, I likely would have m/c anyway... since I m/c even w/o the shot.  The fact is, I really don't know why I m/c, and if I got the shot, it still might not have been the reason. 

Not saying there is no link to m/c (there very well might be) or the H1N1 is "for sure" safe AT ALL or that women should rush out and get it (no way! I wouldn't!  I hate all the scare and guilt trip tactics that many of those in the pro-vaccine camp push!) ... but not sure there is sufficient evidence of it causing m/c.  Miscarriages are very common and were even before the H1N1 shot became common and pushed... is the rate higher now than it was before the H1N1 shot?  That's all.  While many women m/c after getting the shot, many women who got the shot did not m/c as far as I know.  It is the same with other things...many women who eat chocolate m/c...many women don't.  It's not enough to say that chocolate is the probably reason the women who ate it m/c.  And more m/c might be reported if more women suspect it was due to the shot.  My m/c wasn't reported.  So I think it would be pretty hard to find truly accurate statistics on m/c rates... 

[Toposlonoshlep]

Originally Posted by emmy526 

to the PP about vaxing with MMR & DTaP... a friend of mine got it while pregnant and her dr told its the new procedure to prevent measles transmission to the baby after birth via breastfeeding.. the reasoning is that they think antibodies will build up in the breastmilk protecting the baby from said disease. . Why wait til after birth, was the response i got from her....sheesh....what ridiculous reason are they going to come up with next? I want to know if they actually studied whether or not antibodies built up in milk thru vax or is it just another guess of theirs. 

That seems CRAZY that the MMR would be given while pregnant. I actually don't believe it. The medical community is way against it, as Rubella in pregnancy is very very very dangerous and it is a live vaccine. Who the eff would actually inject a pregnant woman with it? Your friend needs to sue.
 

[amnesiac]

Please remember that all members are expected to maintain a comfortable and respectful posting environment.

Also remember that this forum's intended purpose is to meet the needs of members who have already made the decision not to vax or those who are seriously considering this option.

This is not a place for debate or discussions on the merits of vaccines or the dangers of not vaccinating, it is also not a place to argue against vaccines or selective and delayed vaccination schedules. Such discussions are already hosted in the main Vaccinations forum and posts in that vein are most welcome and appropriate there.

Any further posts which are not in keeping with this forum's intended purpose and guidelines will be removed.

[JadedMoss]

As soon as I found out that I was pregnant they gave me the flu/N1H1 shot... apparently it's standard in the Navy to do this and I can't decline getting any vaccinations as they can send me up to an NJP board, even if it's against my religious beliefs. It's one of the reasons I'm getting out as soon as I can.

[Monkeygrrl]

Originally Posted by JadedMoss 

As soon as I found out that I was pregnant they gave me the flu/N1H1 shot... apparently it's standard in the Navy to do this and I can't decline getting any vaccinations as they can send me up to an NJP board, even if it's against my religious beliefs. It's one of the reasons I'm getting out as soon as I can.

I thought the military allowed waivers. I know that some have been able to have a religious waiver. And this thread states that the military has no-nonsense waivers. Have you talked to people specifically about refusing vaccines? Or is it just general convo that they aren't accepted?