Charting to Avoid / Fertility Awareness - July - Page 2

[JMJ]

I wake a lot more than once or twice a night to nurse, and it hasn't been a problem, though we cosleep.  Waking and walking to another room to sit in a rocking chair for a 30 minute nursing secession before returning to bed could be another matter, though getting up to use the bathroom hasn't been a problem for me either.  I just try not to take a drink of water within a couple hours of temping.  Dozing off and on has never been a problem for me either.  It's more important for me to take my temp at the same time than anything else.  I used to take my temp vaginally, and it works fine.  For some people who breathe through their mouths a lot, it works much better than the mouth.  I switched to the mouth when I had a toddler a little too interested in my thermometer and doing everything Mommy does.

[Ashley Payne]

Yeah we still cosleep and not a mouth breather last month I had a long patch of fertile cm then dry then fertile. FF mis calculated by 5 days. I think based on last month Im about to with this 2nd patch. Time will tell Im a "whatever-er"

[Ashley Payne]

Yeah we still cosleep and not a mouth breather last month I had a long patch of fertile cm then dry then fertile. FF mis calculated by 5 days. I think based on last month Im about to with this 2nd patch. Time will tell Im a "whatever-er"

[Jaimee]

JMJ... I pulled this quote up from the June thread in response to asking how long you had been charting:

How long have I been charting?  That's a more complicated question than you'd think.  I've been paying attention to fertility (though not always charting) ever since my menarche, so 11 years.  My mom encouraged me to pay attention to my CM and mark on a calendar the dates of my period.  ... I charted temps for a year or so my Junior/Senior year of high school, but my sleep was pretty erratic, and I didn't know that I needed to take my temp at the same time every day, so that wasn't much help.

I've been charting for nearly six years minus pregnancy and LA.  When I first read TCOYF when I was thinking about TTC, I was totally blown away.  I thought to myself that the book should be required reading for all young women.  I can recall the year or so prior to starting my first period having fertile cervical fluid that scared me.  I had no idea what it was and I thought I might be sick.  I was so embarrassed I couldn't ask my mother directly.  I remember writing her a note asking if I was sick and to please not tell my dad.  She responded that I did not need to worry, but offered no explanation.  So I continued to be in the dark thinking that I would periodically have this annoying issue that wet and stained my panties that other people didn't get.  None of my female friends every mentioned anything about it either.   I find this highly troubling.   I don't want my daughter to be in the dark about her fertility. 

So, how did your mom broach the subject with you?  What did she tell you about your fertility?  How did you find out more information regarding recording your temp and CF?  Did your mom show you?  Or give you a book?   I worry that my dd might not care or be interested.  I also worry that if she does get quite proficient at charting that she may rely on it for birth control without telling me.   I mean, I of course hope that she will be able to talk to me about all these issues, but you just never know sometimes what goes on in a teenager's mind.

So how do you ladies plan on broaching the subject of fertility with your daughters?  Or if you don't currently have a daughter, what do you think would have worked for you when you first starting menstruating?

[JMJ]

Interesting question, Jaimee.  I don't meant to make it sound like my sexual education was perfect, that I always knew what I needed and always made the right decisions with that information, but there was a lot that was right.

I grew up knowing that my parents used NFP and that it worked.  All 8 of my mom's pregnancies (4 live births) were planned, and after my youngest sister was born (5 years younger than me), they had decided that they were finished and successfully prevented pregnancy using NFP only from then until menopause.  (They had a little easier time than you or me because my mom's cycles never returned during breastfeeding.  She breastfed ecologically until we were all weaned pretty suddenly between 12 and 18 months.)  I just grew up hearing about NFP, not in a lot of detail, but knowing that it was possible to determine when a woman could get pregnant or not.

It was also very tied to our Catholic faith.  For Catholics seeking to be obedient to Church teaching, NFP is the only option for family planning.  NFP was part of our identity as Catholics.  Perhaps it was a little too tied to Catholicism.  All 3 of my sisters are no longer Catholic and have no interest in NFP.  I stayed Catholic and knew that if I was going to get married someday, I would need to figure out how to make NFP work.

When I went through puberty, my mom and I had several conversations that I would describe as awkward.  I'm not sure how you talk about such intimate details as a young teenager and not have it be so awkward.  She told me that my vaginal secretions would change throughout the month and would become clear and stretchy around ovulation.  I know she had talked about temperature, but not much, not enough to know how to do it.  She did not teach me the rules of NFP.  As awkward as it was talking about with my mom, I did check.  I didn't notice CM changes, and I didn't ask for clarification.  She asked me once or twice if I noticed changes, and I brushed her off.

As a side note, I've actually heard of encouraging teenage girls to chart temperature only so that they can know when their period is going to start, like to know if they need to bring materials when they go on vacation.  That's probably more what I will do with my daughters, though I'll probably give them some information on CM.

When I was in later high school, I got more interested in how NFP worked and looked online in many internet searches.  My high school biology class had an NFP overview when talking about family planning.  I learned a lot, but I never ran into anything that told me that I was supposed to take my temp at the same time or that I was supposed to get enough sleep.  As a result, I had charts and charts of a mess of temps and flat CM.  I guess part of it was a concern that since CM was so hard to determine, I was worried that I would never get it figured out before getting married, and my mess of HS charts didn't do anything to instill confidence in me.  I was pretty sure there was something wrong with me, which I now believe I had a chronic yeast infection for many years. My mom never knew I was charting, so I didn't get any help from her.

When I got engaged, actually I think it might have been even a little before when it was looking like this relationship was headed for marriage, I started trying to chart again, but my charts looked terrible again.  A friend who was training to be a CCL instructor told me I needed to take my temp at the same time, and I started getting better charts.  We had to take an intro to NFP class for our Catholic marriage prep, and the only option at the time was through a Creighton instructor.  I was disappointed that there was no information on temperature since that was the only thing that was helping me.  I talked to the instructor afterward about my CM (small amounts of creamy, watery discharge every day of my cycle), and she confirmed that I would chart with a yellow sticker every single day of my cycle and that if I have continuous mucus, I would probably get unexpectedly pregnant sometime.

Meanwhile, I was able to get about 4 good charts before I got married (at least from a temperature perspective.  I didn't know much of how to apply the rules to CTA, but at least I had a pretty good idea when I was ovulating and that I was ovulating, so I wasn't a completely lost cause.  I also looked into fertility monitors and various other methods.  Our friends who were training with CCL gave us a CCL correspondence course for our wedding.  We read the manual on our honeymoon, so even though I grew up with it, I feel like I barely had enough information in time.

For my own daughter(s), I hope to give them a similar experience of growing up knowing that NFP is a method of family planning that has a lot of benefits.  I will probably teach them how to chart without teaching them the rules, enough to understand what their bodies are doing, but not enough to use it as birth control, as that can be added very easily later.  If they aren't interested, I won't push the issue until they are.  I also hope to maintain a strong relationship with them with open communication and model a sense of awe of a woman's body and cycles.  This coupled with much discussion of my beliefs on the proper use of the body and sexuality, beginning in infancy by being an example of using my body for the good of the infant through breastfeeding/cosleeping, continuing in toddlerhood discussing using our bodies to share, to be gentle, helpful, etc, and all the way into marriage to give oneself completely to another in love.

I understand that many disagree, but I think that to really influence teenagers to make wise decisions about their sexuality, biology needs to be taught alongside morality.  I want to help my children to understand not only what their body is doing but what it means in a spiritual sense, what it means to be female, and give them tools to use to reach the goal of authentic love and give them the power to recognize and resist any counterfeits they encounter.  It all sounds great now when my only daughter is 2.... ask me again in 15 years, and I'll tell you how it's going.

[Jaimee]

Thanks for the detailed response JMJ!   I appreciate hearing your experience and thoughts on your conversations with your future teenage daughter.  Anyone else have an idea of how they'll broach the subject with their daughters?

[jodi5]

You know, I was raised Catholic but noone ever told me about NFP.  I am amazed at how many peopel on forums are aware of that teaching.  They is no class locally here that can be taken.  I did some reading on my own though when we started to decide to have kids so I was on the pill for a while after we were married before that.  I read TCOYF and really found it interesting and like Jaimee thought that every young girl should read it.  I never did chart after that but was definitely more aware of what my body was doing and we really used a form of the rhythm method while still being aware.  I never was able to figure out my cm very well.  Like JMJ, I don't get a lot of the big difference in CM.  I have not noticed any typical EWCM in my cycles but have now noticed my CM gets very wet around the time I ovulate.  I wouldn't have realized before it was even CM until I started taking my temp etc.  After I read TCOYF, we got pregnant very soon after and using our own little method continued on until my 3rd child was born.  We only got pregnant when we were aware it was time to have another child in our marriage.  Before I got pregnant with Reid, we didn't talk out loud that we were going to try but we definitely took more of a risk 2 months in a row which lead me to believe my dh must have been okay with me getting pregnant again as he was fully aware of my cycle.  Since Reid was born, knowing my dh really feels done, I decided it was time to start charting and I was able to catch my first ovulation postpartum which was really neat.   I also read the CCL home study guide and the postpartum guide soon after Reid's birth and really liked that.  I found the rules easier to see than in TCOYF but it is really nice to know both.  I also came across the Marquette site postpartum and that fascinated me as well.  Sometimes I think it would be nice to have a daughter to whom I could teach all this information, lol, but that has not happened.  I will see how much I tell my boys as I get older.  

Anyways, my day today.  I got a peak on the monitor this morning and my temp dropped.  I did take it a little early but that has not usually affected it that much in the past so perhaps a dip before it jumps.  My cervix is soft although I tend to do this weird thing where one side of my cervix will be soft and the other side firm.  I noticed that last cycle where I had the whole cervix soft but the day after my peak day on the monitor, when it started to firm up, it was very firm on one side and still soft on the other.  Interesting.  My lady comp was flashing red this morning indicating ovulation.  I think this is just based on my history though since last cycle it thought I ovulated on day 17 and it is day 17 today.  We will see what happens to my temps over the next few days.  If it works the same way as last cycle, I would get another lower temp tomorrow and then start rising the next day.  Hopefully I will get a stronger shift this cycle than last time.  I am healthier this cycle and getting a better sleep right now so I'm thinking if that continues, it should be fine.  We will see.  Oh, so for monitor, I ended up using 9 strips this month, from day 9-17.  Once I get more cycles in, I think that number may drop a bit.  I know my cycle is usually quite regular normally so I could likely not do as much as early in the long run.  My cycle is still finding itself right now postpartum and even now, it is fairly regular. 

Hope everyone is having a good cycle. 

Jodi

[JMJ]

One of the best things about charting my cycles has been the emphasis on getting my body healthy while CTA and getting ready to TTC.  The beauty of knowing my body so well is that it then becomes very easy to Chart to TTC.  I had a crazy cycle, not ovulating until 5 weeks into it, but we caught the egg, and I got a BFP this morning.  I am so excited!!!!!

Now, I need to get this thread arranged so I'm not thread keeping the CTA thread throughout my pregnancy.  Still looking for anyone who wants to take it over.....

[physics girl]

Such wonderful news for you and your family!

I'm willing to take over starting the thread, checking in at least once a day or so to see if new members need to be added, etc.

[jodi5]

Congrats JMJ!  That is so exciting.  I hope you have a wonderful pregnancy. 

[Jaimee]

Yay JMJ!!  Congrats!!!! 

[justKate]

Yay JMJ!!!   Although I was kinda hoping it would take you a month so that we could possibly be in a DDC together!   Congrats, I'm really happy for you.  I can't remember, is this baby #2 or #3? 

Re. daughter's fertility--weird to think about, really. DD is 2.5.  My own experience was weird--I was raised Catholic and knew that Catholics used NFP, but I have no idea what my parents did all those years.  They didn't talk to us about sexuality at all.  I had a cyst rupture when I was 14, and ended up having surgery to remove a part of one ovary and repair a tube.  After that point I was on the pill to "regulate my cycle"--I think my mom just found it to be an easy way to get me on BC.  I had no idea about vaginal secretions until my mid-20's, and only learned about temperature when TTC DD in 2008. I want DD to know about this stuff when it begins to happen to her, but I'm not sure I want a teenager to CTA.  That's a toughie! 

[Jaimee]

Originally Posted by JMJ 

For my own daughter(s), I hope to give them a similar experience of growing up knowing that NFP is a method of family planning that has a lot of benefits.  I will probably teach them how to chart without teaching them the rules, enough to understand what their bodies are doing, but not enough to use it as birth control, as that can be added very easily later.  If they aren't interested, I won't push the issue until they are.

Originally Posted by justKate 

 I want DD to know about this stuff when it begins to happen to her, but I'm not sure I want a teenager to CTA.  That's a toughie! 

Yes that is my issue, too.  I would like to give her enough info to chart, but not enough to CTA.  But the problem lies in the fact that dd is extremely smart and she would be able to figure out how to use it to CTA, but being a teenager might not do safely enough.  Heck, I didn't do it safely enough as an adult!  So I feel like leaving out the part about how to be safe could be detrimental.  I dunno...  we're not Catholic so we aren't anti-birth control, I'm just anti-hormonal control b/c of what it does to the body.  Maybe I'll just go with "use condoms even if you're charting!"  Though of course in my fantasy parent world dd won't be having sex until she's in a committed relationship!   
 

[JMJ]

Thanks, everyone!  We're really excited about it.  JustKate, I was thinking the same thing about it being really cool if we got to be in the same DDC, but I'm glad things turned out the way they did.  I hope you get your BFP as quickly, and we'll need to stay in touch one way or another.  This is Baby #2 for me, and if things go anything like my last baby, it will be over 2 years from now before I'm even charting again (hopefully).  You're trying for #2 as well, right?

physicsgirl, thanks so much for taking the thread.  It is yours.  All you have to do is change the months on the welcome message and title, change the link to the last month's thread, add new people and link their charts, and delete people who haven't been posting every once in a while.  Feel free to ask for help if you need it.

Jaimee, with teaching your daughter to chart, I think that your experience of unplanned pregnancies is a good thing to share with your daughter to help convince her to not CTA before she's ready.  Each form of birth control (with the exception of abstinence) has a certain failure rate, and it is important to be in a position that you can accept that failure rate before you do something that could get you pregnant.  Your unplanned pregnancies happened in the context of marriage, where you were readily able to accept them as blessings.  NFP takes a lot of understanding, and sharing what you just said, that you weren't even careful enough as a married adult (though you were a statistical outlier).  The truth is that a lot of forms of birth control are not nearly as effective for teens.  A woman using the pill or condoms from the age of 15-25 who is sexually active throughout that time frame is more likely to end up pregnant than not.  I've lost count of how many young women I know who got pregnant on the pill.  Having my daughter use condoms would scare me more than having my daughter attempt to CTA in high school.  I would think a smart girl would be scared enough to be conservative, but I'm with you on hoping that my daughters remain abstinent as teens.

[Jaimee]

Originally Posted by JMJ 
The truth is that a lot of forms of birth control are not nearly as effective for teens.  A woman using the pill or condoms from the age of 15-25 who is sexually active throughout that time frame is more likely to end up pregnant than not. 

From incorrect use?  Or b/c they are more fertile?  Or both?  I know I've answered 2  or 3 posts just on here from women in their late teens who are using withdrawal or who are on the pill, but skipping them frequently.  What the heck?  Why bother with BC at all?

[lollie2357]

Hi, guys.  I don't post often so I hope you don't mind me jumping in.  I've had a weird cycle and was wondering if anyone had any thoughts.  I used Creighton and have emailed my teacher, but she may not reply for a few days. 

I'm on cycle day 16 and have had no mucus until today, which is very late for me to start the mucus cycle (I usually start anywhere between day 6-11).  I have been observing 2W (non-mucus wetness) for about 5 days, which can be a sign of infection.  And today, I had 10KLYG (extra wet, stretchy cm that is also yellow and gluey).  I'm glad to finally see mucus, but I was concerned about seeing the YG (which can also be a sign of infection) with the 10KL, especially after  the cycle has been unusual already.  I also had a lighter period than normal.  I'm wondering if I should see my doctor to see if I have an infection, or if I should wait and see a bit longer before jumping to conclusions. 

[Jaimee]

Wilson: Are you having any other symptoms of infection?  Itching, burning, bad odor?  If not, I would probably wait it out and see what happens.  You could always increase some supplements in the meantime like vitamin C, garlic, probiotics, etc.

[jodi5]

Just thought I would add that I have updated my chart to chow the fertile windows for Marquette, CCL (based on cyclepro) and Lady Comp.  I'm not sure I'll want to keep it up indefinitely but thought it might be nice for seeing the different methods and the ranges they give.  I have cyclepro on my computer so have been popping my info in there to see if I get the same results and Marquette is super easy to easy the range anyways.  Thought I would mention that since I have just starting cycles, most of the methods are having me use day 6 as the first fertile day for a while so that may not be indicative of the long term. 

Oh, I got ovulation pain last night.  I used to get it all the time after I gave birth to Michael and before Carter was born but then it quit after he was born.  It appears to be a symptom that may be returning.  I do remember postpartum prior to my first cycle getting a little bit like my body was trying to do something.  We'll see if this becomes cyclical. 

[JMJ]

Originally Posted by Jaimee 

From incorrect use?  Or b/c they are more fertile?  Or both?  I know I've answered 2  or 3 posts just on here from women in their late teens who are using withdrawal or who are on the pill, but skipping them frequently.  What the heck?  Why bother with BC at all?

A combination.  I have two friends who got pregnant in their early twenties while on the pill with correct use the month they got pregnant.  One friend was being extra careful that month because she had made some mistakes the month before, but it was the month of perfect use that she got pregnant.  Young women are just really fertile, and it is much harder to undermine their fertility.  The fact that many teenage women do not consistently take their pills at the right time does not help with user error, but even with perfect use, there is a much higher risk than people realize.  The published effectiveness rates for every form of birth control is based on controlled prospective studies of adult women.  That is not ethical to do with teenagers because it is not ethical to encourage minors to be having sex, but from the best that we can tell, younger women have a much higher perfect-use and user failure rate, and I am absolutely horrified that the sex education for our teens encourages them to think that their birth control will give them the same kind of protection that it would give a woman in her 30's.  With condoms, it is mostly user error, but if a condom breaks, a younger woman is much more likely to conceive based on one incident of unprotected sex during the fertile window than an older woman.  I'm 25, and I have had sex in three fertile windows ever (age 22-25).  I got pregnant at least 2 of those times, and the third, my best guess is that I had an early miscarriage due to an inadequate LP.  An older woman will likely take a few months of trying to get pregnant.  A young woman is likely to get pregnant every single time she makes it possible.

Originally Posted by wilson 

Hi, guys.  I don't post often so I hope you don't mind me jumping in.  I've had a weird cycle and was wondering if anyone had any thoughts.  I used Creighton and have emailed my teacher, but she may not reply for a few days. 

I'm on cycle day 16 and have had no mucus until today, which is very late for me to start the mucus cycle (I usually start anywhere between day 6-11).  I have been observing 2W (non-mucus wetness) for about 5 days, which can be a sign of infection.  And today, I had 10KLYG (extra wet, stretchy cm that is also yellow and gluey).  I'm glad to finally see mucus, but I was concerned about seeing the YG (which can also be a sign of infection) with the 10KL, especially after  the cycle has been unusual already.  I also had a lighter period than normal.  I'm wondering if I should see my doctor to see if I have an infection, or if I should wait and see a bit longer before jumping to conclusions. 

It sounds like ovulation is delayed for you this cycle.  An infection usually smells and feels bad.  If you are uncomfortable or notice a foul smell (feel free to enlist your husband's assistance if you need), then I would get it checked out.  Yellow is usually a less-fertile mucus.  It threw me the first time I saw it when my fertility was returning while breastfeeding.  It looked clear and stretchy like more fertile type mucus but tinted yellow, and it was a while before I ovulated.  Recently, I have had some cycles where my CM begins white and creamy and some cycles where my CM begins yellow and clear.  Both progress to clear and stretchy before ovulation.  I have no other signs of infection, so I am not concerned.  Since this is your first day of CM, I would guess that this is what is happening.  A discharge associated with an infection is usually constant, regardless of your fertile window.  I hope you get your answers soon.  Keep us posted.
 

Originally Posted by jodi5 

Just thought I would add that I have updated my chart to chow the fertile windows for Marquette, CCL (based on cyclepro) and Lady Comp.  I'm not sure I'll want to keep it up indefinitely but thought it might be nice for seeing the different methods and the ranges they give.  I have cyclepro on my computer so have been popping my info in there to see if I get the same results and Marquette is super easy to easy the range anyways.  Thought I would mention that since I have just starting cycles, most of the methods are having me use day 6 as the first fertile day for a while so that may not be indicative of the long term. 

Oh, I got ovulation pain last night.  I used to get it all the time after I gave birth to Michael and before Carter was born but then it quit after he was born.  It appears to be a symptom that may be returning.  I do remember postpartum prior to my first cycle getting a little bit like my body was trying to do something.  We'll see if this becomes cyclical. 

Thanks for sharing.  It's great to get the chance to learn about all your methods.  Can you tell me more about your LadyComp's rules if you know them?  It seems to be giving you about the same rules as the MM.  Are you using it alongside the CBFM, or are you using it instead of the CBFM in your MM charting?
 

[Jaimee]

Originally Posted by JMJ 

One friend was being extra careful that month because she had made some mistakes the month before, but it was the month of perfect use that she got pregnant.

Back in the day when I was on the pill, my doctor told me that if I skipped one hormone pill (not the placebos) I could double up the next day and be fine.  But if I skipped more than one pill in a row or frequently took them at wildly different times of day that that cycle AND the next would be affected.  In other words BCP's require one month of perfect use before they are effective.  Anyone else hear this?