Is It Dangerous To Focus On Infectious Disease ...

[miriam]

... when the worse diseases are not infectious at all?

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2011/07/biggest-disease-threat/

Chronic debilitating diseases as heart disease, diabetes, allergies, obesity, kidney disease, lupus, fibromyalgia, cancer, multiple sclerosis, muscular dystrophy, and schizophrenia increase while hysteria about the flu, whooping cough, and measles dominate the news.  

Ten fully vaccinated children in Long Island with whooping cough eclipses the staggering number of  deaths of cancer patients.  Why?  Is it supposed to be normal to die of cancer?

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/local/long_island&id=8203711

[kathymuggle]

I know.

I often argue against vaccination, yet I suspect strongly that the likelihood of someone getting a VPD or having a negative reaction to a vax are pretty low.  I also think there are many unknown in vax reactions, and I personally cannot ignore huge anecdotal evidence in my decision making.

I don't think the vax debate is always about vaxxing (a thing people can do or not do and most kids will be fine) - it is about trust, control, manipulation and a patriarchal model.  

The media keeps vax in the public eye because it riles people up and it sells. 

OT a little:  anyone remember that ER episode where a child dies of measles?  There was an ad for a pharma company directly after it.    

http://www.vaccinationnews.com/DailyNews/July2001/MotheringMagBoycottER.htm

[SilverMoon010]

The goal is to keep everyone scared of infectious disease that there are vaccines for to keep everyone coming back for more.  There are always going to be repeat customers with vaccines as long as they continue to invoke that fear.  If they stop and focus on chronic diseases, infectious disease and vaccines will be put on the back burner, and we can't have that happen now can we?  You notice every time a new vaccine comes out, people focus on that "new disease," which really isn't new at all and has been around for a long time.  Yet, people start focusing on it and are terrified of it, when before the vaccine you didn't even think twice about it.  Vaccines are an easy sell (well to some, just not me), and it's important to the vaccine pushers that the people feel the risks of the "terrifying" diseases far outweigh the risks of the vaccines to keep the business booming. 

But wait.....just watch and see, when they start coming out with vaccines for those said chronic diseases, that's all they will be talking about.  

Edited by SilverMoon010 - 7/3/11 at 2:23pm

[WildKingdom]

Originally Posted by miriam 

... when the worse diseases are not infectious at all?

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2011/07/biggest-disease-threat/

Chronic debilitating diseases as heart disease, diabetes, allergies, obesity, kidney disease, lupus, fibromyalgia, cancer, multiple sclerosis, muscular dystrophy, and schizophrenia increase while hysteria about the flu, whooping cough, and measles dominate the news.  

Ten fully vaccinated children in Long Island with whooping cough eclipses the staggering number of  deaths of cancer patients.  Why?  Is it supposed to be normal to die of cancer?

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/local/long_island&id=8203711

Yes, it is normal to die of cancer.  People have to die of something.  If you live long enough, you in general die of a heart attack or cancer.   Now that people in general don't die of infectious disease anymore, they die of cancer and heart disease.

[leahsmama]

Originally Posted by WildKingdom 

Yes, it is normal to die of cancer.  People have to die of something.  If you live long enough, you in general die of a heart attack or cancer.   Now that people in general don't die of infectious disease anymore, they die of cancer and heart disease.

Right on. The kids that get to grow up now that would have died of VPD years ago have a long time to acquire heart disease, cancer, etc.

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by leahsmama 

Right on. The kids that get to grow up now that would have died of VPD years ago have a long time to acquire heart disease, cancer, etc.

No matter which way you slice it, VPD are not overly dangerous today - there are so many more childhood risks and health issues that seem to get disproportionately  less media coverage.

Edited by kathymuggle - 7/3/11 at 5:15pm

[SilverMoon010]

Originally Posted by leahsmama 

Right on. The kids that get to grow up now that would have died of VPD years ago have a long time to acquire heart disease, cancer, etc.

Am I missing something? VPDs are still around (I'm sure you have heard of some outbreaks lately) and indeed occur in the vaccinated, so let's not forget that (as well as the unvaccinated of course).  You are speaking as if they no longer exist from the use of vaccines.  Yes, many of those individuals, if not all (don't have the stats on the latest outbreaks) are still living.  Also, it seems as if you are saying anyone who comes in contact with a VPD will die which is so far from the truth.  Less are dying from them today because there is better healthcare, sanitation, etc.  People are more aware of how to treat them as well. The point of the thread is to discuss why we are so focused on VPDs and not other more chronic, serious health issues. If VPDs are no longer around, like you indicate, then why is everyone so focused on them then, like they are a constant threat?  Don't know what country you are in but the infant mortality rate in the US is the highest (as posted in another thread), so there are a lot of kids who aren't growing up to "acquire heart disease, cancer, etc."

[no5no5]

Maybe I'm just not exposed to the right kind of media, but I hear tons about lots & lots of other ailments besides VPDs.  And I rarely hear about VPDs, except when I come on this forum.  I did a quick check and right now the CNN website has videos dealing with concussions, AIDS, breast cancer, obesity, stress, smoking, hep c, food allergies, cancer, and e coli.  I don't see anything about vaccines or VPDs.  So I'm not sure where y'all are seeing all of the media about VPDs. 

[no5no5]

Originally Posted by SilverMoon010 

Don't know what country you are in but the infant mortality rate in the US is the highest (as posted in another thread), so there are a lot of kids who aren't growing up to "acquire heart disease, cancer, etc."

Um.  What? 

[SilverMoon010]

Originally Posted by no5no5 

Um.  What? 

Yes, foot in mouth. It is not the highest....I apologize. (It was the highest out of the other top 33 nations in the article. Pregnant, tired, and cloudy)

I still don't retract my point regarding the AP and her statement that said since kids are no longer dying from VPDs, they are living long enough to acquire cancer, heart disease, etc (her words, not mine).  (I actually would never feel comfortable saying such a thing actually.) Living in a country that is considered so advanced, having a high IMR rate in comparison to other nations means something is certainly amiss, especially in a country with such a high vaccine rate. Not going to rehash because it has all been discussed previously. Point was a lot of kids are not living as long as they should and this is a problem, whether you think it's from vaccines or not.

Edited by SilverMoon010 - 7/3/11 at 6:50pm

[MamaJenese]

Originally Posted by SilverMoon010 

Am I missing something? VPDs are still around (I'm sure you have heard of some outbreaks lately) and indeed occur in the vaccinated, so let's not forget that (as well as the unvaccinated of course).  You are speaking as if they no longer exist from the use of vaccines.  Yes, many of those individuals, if not all (don't have the stats on the latest outbreaks) are still living.  Also, it seems as if you are saying anyone who comes in contact with a VPD will die which is so far from the truth.  Less are dying from them today because there is better healthcare, sanitation, etc.  People are more aware of how to treat them as well. The point of the thread is to discuss why we are so focused on VPDs and not other more chronic, serious health issues. If VPDs are no longer around, like you indicate, then why is everyone so focused on them then, like they are a constant threat?  Don't know what country you are in but the infant mortality rate in the US is the highest (as posted in another thread), so there are a lot of kids who aren't growing up to "acquire heart disease, cancer, etc."

The US is more like 176  in the world for infant mortality.

[kathymuggle]

From my understanding, the US infant mortality rate is not as good as it should be for a western, industrialised nation.  

http://www.geographyiq.com/ranking/ranking_Infant_Mortality_Rate_aall.htm

I doubt it has anything to do with vaccination, though.

no5no5 - thinking things through, the ads I have seen in Canada for children are typically for ADHD medication.  They do talk about the obesity epidemic as well.  There is talk about vaccines - often at flu times and certainly during H1N1, but I saw one (with an empty crib no less - yes, fearmongering in my opinion) less than a month ago.

[homemademomma]

Originally Posted by no5no5 

Maybe I'm just not exposed to the right kind of media, but I hear tons about lots & lots of other ailments besides VPDs.  And I rarely hear about VPDs, except when I come on this forum.  I did a quick check and right now the CNN website has videos dealing with concussions, AIDS, breast cancer, obesity, stress, smoking, hep c, food allergies, cancer, and e coli.  I don't see anything about vaccines or VPDs.  So I'm not sure where y'all are seeing all of the media about VPDs. 

Me too. I very rarely hear anything about vaccines or VPD in the news, unless it is "new" outbreak like H1N1. I always watch out for health related news in general, and I hear tons of stuff about cancer, obesity, heart disease, diabetes, etc. 

[miriam]

Originally Posted by WildKingdom 

Yes, it is normal to die of cancer.  People have to die of something.  If you live long enough, you in general die of a heart attack or cancer.   Now that people in general don't die of infectious disease anymore, they die of cancer and heart disease.

As a person who has cared for many people who died of cancer, that is not normal. Cancer claims people of all ages, young and old.  Age has nothing to do with dying of cancer.

Sorry. You are wrong.  Nature never intended for a person to die in that hideous manner.

[no5no5]

Originally Posted by miriam 

Sorry. You are wrong.  Nature never intended for a person to die in that hideous manner.

So are you saying that cancer is the creation of a supernatural force or entity?

[no5no5]

Originally Posted by SilverMoon010 

Yes, foot in mouth. It is not the highest....I apologize. (It was the highest out of the other top 33 nations in the article. Pregnant, tired, and cloudy)

I understand completely (being 38+ weeks myself).  :) 

I do agree that other causes of infant death are bigger issues than VPDs these days.  And I would think it was strange if I though the media's coverage of other health issues was insignificant compared to their coverage of VPDs.  I just haven't found that to be the case wrt the media that I view. 

Kathy, that empty-crib ad sounds awful.  I personally find ads like that to be completely disgusting and inappropriate (which is one of the reasons I avoid watching ads as much as I possibly can).  Yuck.  I wonder if it was a PSA sponsored by your government or an ad sponsored by a drug company?

[WildKingdom]

Originally Posted by miriam 

As a person who has cared for many people who died of cancer, that is not normal. Cancer claims people of all ages, young and old.  Age has nothing to do with dying of cancer.

Sorry. You are wrong.  Nature never intended for a person to die in that hideous manner.

No, sorry, you are wrong.  Although age doesn't correlate with every case of cancer, it has an awful lot to do with the majority of them.

Nature doesn't "intend" anything.  It is not a moral, sentient entity.  Death from many things can be hideous.  Death from pneumonia can be horrible.  I've seen horrible deaths from cystic fibrosis, with adolescents dying while trying to suck air into their useless lungs.   Some of the worst I've seen have been from cirrhosis as a result of hepatitis C.  People bloating, turing bright yellow, uncontrollable tremors, hallucinations from hepatic encephalopathy...

Nothing supernatural about those deaths.  All natural causes.
 

[leahsmama]

Originally Posted by SilverMoon010 

Am I missing something? VPDs are still around (I'm sure you have heard of some outbreaks lately) and indeed occur in the vaccinated, so let's not forget that (as well as the unvaccinated of course).  You are speaking as if they no longer exist from the use of vaccines.  Yes, many of those individuals, if not all (don't have the stats on the latest outbreaks) are still living.  Also, it seems as if you are saying anyone who comes in contact with a VPD will die which is so far from the truth.  Less are dying from them today because there is better healthcare, sanitation, etc.  People are more aware of how to treat them as well. The point of the thread is to discuss why we are so focused on VPDs and not other more chronic, serious health issues. If VPDs are no longer around, like you indicate, then why is everyone so focused on them then, like they are a constant threat?  Don't know what country you are in but the infant mortality rate in the US is the highest (as posted in another thread), so there are a lot of kids who aren't growing up to "acquire heart disease, cancer, etc."

Seriously? Are you arguing that vaccines do not prevent the majority of death from vaccine preventable illnesses? Also "it seems as if you are saying anyone who comes in contact with a VPD will die which is so far from the truth" is reading an awful lot into my one sentence. I'm remembering why I don't read this forum and I'm going to back out now. Peace out.

[zylph]

"As a person who has cared for many people who died of cancer, that is not normal. Cancer claims people of all ages, young and old.  Age has nothing to do with dying of cancer.

Sorry. You are wrong.  Nature never intended for a person to die in that hideous manner."

To continue WildKingdom's comment, Nature doesn't care.  To be more specific, Nature doesn't care as long as you're past reproductive age.  You could spontaneously combust at menopause, and as long as that doesn't affect your children, Nature doesn't care.  Also, age has an incredible amount to do with dying of cancer.  If you don't have a genetic predisposition toward developing cancer, and you don't smoke, the likelihood is that you don't have to worry until age 60-70.  And then you start to have to worry a lot.  There are a number of really cool ways that your body protects itself against cancer, but that's only, again, typically foolproof until you've passed child-bearing age.

You hear tons of stuff about heart disease, cancer, etc., because you're already living an unnatural life.  You should be ridden with parasites (one reason for the uptick in autoimmune diseases - a bias toward the Th2 response) and typically die before age 40 due to infectious disease, or a predator.  Unfortunately, vaccines, antibiotics, and antiviral drugs exist.  And guns.  If you want to learn about infectious disease, go live in the Democratic Republic of the Congo: http://news.yahoo.com/measles-kill-over-1-000-dr-congo-children-202705179.html.

[zylph]

Sorry... the correct URL

http://news.yahoo.com/measles-kill-over-1-000-dr-congo-children-202705179.html