Different View Points

[grendal82002]

I had an interesting conversation the other day with a girl very close to me. She is a far ways off from having kids, so I guess there is time. Anyway we were talking and circumcision came up, she comes from, generally a non-circumcising family. Her father's parents are from Italy and he was not circumcised and neither were her two younger brothers, and she is well aware of this. She was saying that went she was in school she had to watch circumcisions being done on baby boys. She said that it was awful and that the babies were in so much pain, and how it was like a conveyeur belt one baby after the other. She found it so awful that she called her dad and told him about it. Her dad then told her thats one of the reasons he didnt do it to her brother because he saw it being done to another boy and he could never do it to his sons (their now 19 and 21).

After she said this I said at least now you know what happens and that you wont do it your kids if they are boys. She said that still would because "its cleaner and it looks...(she cut off there and said) I've never seen an adult one so I dont know." This makes no sense to me, "its awful but I would still do it." She may have stopped herself from completing the sentence because she knows I'm not circumcised and didnt want to hurt my feelings, we are very close, but I am not sure.

To make it more interesting the father and the two sons are completely against circumcision.The 19 year old found it wrong and stupid. And the 21 year old also feels the same way and would never do it to his kids. They both have said that they are happy that it was never done to them, they like their penis just the way it is.

I dont know, I find this very interesting and I just wanted to hear/see your opinion and thoughts on this. Its much appreciated. Thank you.

[Dan Bollinger]

It does sound illogical. You could send her to the Circumcision Decision-Maker website. It might help her reveal her REAL reason for resisting family tradition. And, the converstaion could have been a veiled request for you to offer to show her your intact penis. Just saying...

[PuppyFluffer]

That is an interesting decision to come to, considering her background is in a culture where intact is normal and she has seen the very graphic nature of infant circumcision. 

[grendal82002]

I don't understand it either. She use to change th diapers of her little brothers, so to comeout and say that is kind of striking.

And I don't think she was asking to see my privates, she has a boyfriend.

[Cyllya]

Some thoughts...

She said she'd never seen an intact adult penis, but I've notice some women don't know an intact penis when they see it. They hear that circumcision removes some "extra skin," but they see that none of their sex partners ever had any "extra skin," thus they must have all been circumcised. But since that skin's not actually extra anyway.... I even thought my boyfriend was circumcised even though I looked up pictures to find out whether he was (I didn't want to ask him).

But if that's not the case, it sounds like her boyfriend is probably circumcised? If she's thinking of settling down with him, she may be expecting him to really want to circ their kids (so they'll "look like dad") and trying to find excuses in favor of it?

[Dia]

This is a good point. Speaking from personal experience, as a young woman I had a couple intact boyfriends, and honestly I didn't notice that they looked any different than a circumsized person  until they explicitly mentioned it. Then I noticed (and thought - awesome!! God bless your mom and dad!).
 

Originally Posted by Cyllya 

Some thoughts...

She said she'd never seen an intact adult penis, but I've notice some women don't know an intact penis when they see it. They hear that circumcision removes some "extra skin," but they see that none of their sex partners ever had any "extra skin," thus they must have all been circumcised. But since that skin's not actually extra anyway.... I even thought my boyfriend was circumcised even though I looked up pictures to find out whether he was (I didn't want to ask him).

But if that's not the case, it sounds like her boyfriend is probably circumcised? If she's thinking of settling down with him, she may be expecting him to really want to circ their kids (so they'll "look like dad") and trying to find excuses in favor of it?

[grendal82002]

But she has seen her brothers when they were little. So its not like she hasnt seen intact male genitalia.

[brant31]

Originally Posted by Cyllya 

it sounds like her boyfriend is probably circumcised? If she's thinking of settling down with him, she may be expecting him to really want to circ their kids (so they'll "look like dad") and trying to find excuses in favor of it?

This was my thought.

I have a good friend, a former co-worker, whom I admire. She is an MBA, worldly, intelligent and eminently sensible -- about most things. While she and her husband were posted over in the UK with our employer, I stayed with them on a couple of occasions. When my friend got pregnant, she mentioned the differences between the NHS and private insurance, which our employer also provided. She said she asked 5 NHS doctors about circumcision if it was a boy, and they all flatly turned her down -- so she decided to go private. I told her that I strongly oppose infant circumcision, and she said that the issue wasn't negotiable. Then she said... that back home in California, her father (a brilliant MD/JD) also strongly opposes circumcision and didn't have any of her brothers circumcised. So far, so good. But my friend's husband, a very sweet man who didn't really have an opinion about circumcising his son, was cut, and my friend was absolutely adamant that a boy should match his father. In fact, she must have said that 2 dozen times to me, and couldn't emphasize it enough. I got the impression she was "honoring" her husband -- even if he didn't ask for it -- by being so vocal and adamant about having her child circumcised. She even berated the NHS doctors for not having the "common sense" to understand that a boy must match his dad.

Complicating the issue was the fact that two of her brothers, one older than her and one younger, both pleaded with her to have her child circumcised. They said it was agonizing and traumatizing to be different in the school showers for them both, and they hated not being like their dad -- even though they both knew his strong opposition to circumcision. The whole story sounded fishy to me, since I've been doing this a long time and have found the locker room myth to be just that... a myth. Any boy who feels "scarred" from having a normal body has some other issues going on.

In the end, my friends had a daughter. As far as I know, she is intact.

[mama24-7]

Originally Posted by brant31 

This was my thought.

I have a good friend, a former co-worker, whom I admire. She is an MBA, worldly, intelligent and eminently sensible -- about most things. While she and her husband were posted over in the UK with our employer, I stayed with them on a couple of occasions. When my friend got pregnant, she mentioned the differences between the NHS and private insurance, which our employer also provided. She said she asked 5 NHS doctors about circumcision if it was a boy, and they all flatly turned her down -- so she decided to go private. I told her that I strongly oppose infant circumcision, and she said that the issue wasn't negotiable. Then she said... that back home in California, her father (a brilliant MD/JD) also strongly opposes circumcision and didn't have any of her brothers circumcised. So far, so good. But my friend's husband, a very sweet man who didn't really have an opinion about circumcising his son, was cut, and my friend was absolutely adamant that a boy should match his father. In fact, she must have said that 2 dozen times to me, and couldn't emphasize it enough. I got the impression she was "honoring" her husband -- even if he didn't ask for it -- by being so vocal and adamant about having her child circumcised. She even berated the NHS doctors for not having the "common sense" to understand that a boy must match his dad.

Complicating the issue was the fact that two of her brothers, one older than her and one younger, both pleaded with her to have her child circumcised. They said it was agonizing and traumatizing to be different in the school showers for them both, and they hated not being like their dad -- even though they both knew his strong opposition to circumcision. The whole story sounded fishy to me, since I've been doing this a long time and have found the locker room myth to be just that... a myth. Any boy who feels "scarred" from having a normal body has some other issues going on.

In the end, my friends had a daughter. As far as I know, she is intact.

i'm always grateful when such people have daughters.  

sus