Birds Do it... Bees Do it... Even Ladies in their 40's do it..... Summer 40++++ TTC thread - Page 3

[lovestolearn]

I want to second the fish oil/EWCM connection.  I take 1000 mg of krill/oil per day & at age 48 I have EWCM like I did in my 20s!

[Stevi]

I take Flax Oil so that I don't have to worry about mercury, though I take it for the antioxidants. But I've been taking it for so long that I don't know if it effects my EWCM or not., LOL

[contactmaya]

I take fish oil everyday too, and it didnt seem to affect my ewcm one  way or another, although it makes sense that it would. 

Gumblossom, that information was so interesting, and the affirmations you shared were really healing to me, as i had some spotting that day. It turned out to be nothing (friable cervix, that can actually result from pregnancy, or multipara-2 or more), but doctors go in a tailspin. They arent helpful.   As i said before elsewhere, i cant wait to change to a midwife.  

[jenjersnap]

Hi everyone.  It's been several months since I posted or lurked here ... enough time that I am no longer on the hopeful list (which is fine!).  Looks like several people who were active when I was have BFPs - congrats!  I hope the losses have been few.  I myself had another loss at 9 weeks this spring.  My cycle has been pretty screwy since then but fresh royal jelly and maca seems to be helping fix that.  Hope springs eternal but now my youngest will be 6 if we got PG with a soul who decided to stay and I wonder if that is just too large a space.  *sigh*

I have a question, perhaps a not-so-smart one:  I am becoming increasingly worried about the chemicals in my anti-aging creams and wonder if it's played a role in my losses.  I know retinol is a no no but I just figured that out a few months ago after my latest loss.  :(  I feel so guilty that I didn't think about this earlier.  I am currently using one that is considered "acceptable" but the list is still as long as my hand and I would like to find something more natural.  Does anyone have any recommendations?  Thank you!

[jenjersnap]

gumblossom, first of all I want to say that I am sorry for your loss last month.  Recurrent m/cs suck - just no other way to put it.  :(  I was very interested that you are trying the inositol/melatonin combo.  Are you doing a natural cycle while using it (I am sorry if I missed that info somewhere)?  If so, do you have any links that discuss the combo when NOT using IVF?   I have been afraid to use melatonin while TTC naturally because I have read it can cause delayed or missed ovulation but I would very much like to give it a try if there are any sources out there.  Would you continue to take the melatonin during the 2WW?  I appreciate your thoughts.

Sorry for the double post, other ladies.

[Kristin0105]

Welcome back Jenjersnap.

I use Origin's products they are more natural and I feel like they actually had a positive impact on my appearance. I was surprised by the results.

[LitMama]

Hello beautiful women,

I have a lot of catching up to do and only a quick sec right now....  you've all been in my thoughts although I've been too busy to post or read much. 

Gumblossom, thank you for all the wonderful sharing you've done here about your thoughts, feelings, and research. Re: supplements, I've been reading about CCRM's Inositol/Folic Acid/Melatonin protocol as well. I'll post some links here later for those who are wondering about dosages, etc. I just bought some myself this evening.

Stevi and Karalina, I'm sorry you've both had a rough time lately, I'm thinking of you and sending you both ((( hugs ))) and good vibes. Karalina, I loved reading that you were camping in Big Sur. We were there right before you. It was good medicine.

Jenjersnap, it's nice to see you back here, and I'm so sorry for your loss ((( hugs ))). When I started TTC I gave up my few beloved products and spent a long time just basically using nothing but castille soap and coconut oil and baking soda (good for the body, good for the wallet). However, I've found some good products that I feel safe about since then. Try your local natural foods co-op or market... just this evening I came home with a fruit-based anti-aging serum that has a very short list of all natural ingredients (and no parabens, fragrances, etc.) and a bottle of conditioner that is made with only raw whole-food ingredients. I could probably eat it!

Regarding fish oil... I take it every day, too, and it hasn't done anything to change my CF. Last month I had eggwhite for the first time in years and I have no idea why -- the only thing I was doing differently was drinking an infusion of red raspberry/red clover/nettle. This month I slacked off on the infusion and had no eggwhite, only watery CF.

AFM, 7dpo, it was tough to make it happen this month (I actually drove 200 miles the day I O'd so DH and I could be together for exactly 90 minutes -- and that was actually the only day we could make it work). We are having an informational visit with an IVF clinic this Wednesday and doing a consult with a nutritionist this Thursday. Filling out the nutritionist's intake form, I looked back over my charts and saw that we have had 8 chemical pregnancies in the last 1.5 years. I've been avoiding counting them up, wow. Next week we are meeting with a famous acupuncturist who is supposed to be a miracle worker. I feel extremely ambivalent about ART (to put it mildly), and we can't afford any of this, but got an unexpected tax refund we are putting toward this and are also considering reaching out to our families for help. I guess we're exploring again, and I'm not sure where this will end up. But as one of my favorite affirmations goes,

"I allow new beginnings in my life."

My garden is keeping me sane.

Love to you all!

LitMama

Edited by LitMama - 7/18/11 at 9:35pm

[jenjersnap]

Thank you for the suggestions, Kristin0105 and LitMama!  Origins never occurred to me for face products though I used to be a total addict for their body creams - will definitely check it out - as well as the products at the health food store.

LitMama, I will be curious to see your links for the inositol/melatonin protocol too.  I bought inositol yesterday; it sounds like a miracle for so many things and relatively safe.  Three doses in (2g each) I am having the usual side effect of tummy upset and hoping that clears up soon because it hasn't been pleasant.  I just can't bring myself to trying melatonin.  My cycles take a long time to adjust after each M/C and I can't chance that it will prevent ovulation.  Plus I am 10 dpo today anyway ...

[gumblossom]

Hi ladies I've been having a look around for info about the inositol-melatonin combination.

Found some interesting stuff:

From this study: http://www.news-medical.net/news/20100915/Hormone-melatonin-improves-egg-quality-in-IVF.aspx

The group then initiated a trial with a group of women coming for IVF treatment at the Yamaguchi University Graduate School of Medicine. Women who had failed to become pregnant because of poor oocytes quality after one cycle of IVF were split into two groups; 56 women were given 3 mg of melatonin before the next IVF cycle, and 59 just received a standard IVF cycle without any melatonin.

The team found that melatonin treatment significantly increased intrafollicular melatonin concentrations, and significantly decreased the concentration of the damaging 8-OhdG.

The results of the study found that 50% of the eggs from women who taken melatonin could be successfully fertilised, as opposed to 22.8% in the control group. When the eggs were then transplanted into the womb, 19% (11 out of the total 56) of the women became pregnant, as opposed to 10.2% (6 out of total 59) in the control group.

And this from another study:

RESULTS:

The mean number of oocytes retrieved did not differ between the two groups (7.88 +/- 1.76 vs 7.67 +/- 1.88; P=0.65). Whereas the group cotreated with melatonin reported a significantly greater mean number of mature oocytes (6.56 +/- 1.64 vs 5.76 +/- 1.56; P=0.047) and a lower mean number of immature oocytes (1.31 +/- 0.74 vs. 1.91 +/- 0.68; P=0.001). The mean number of embyos of top-quality (class 1 and 2) resulted higher in the group A (1.69 +/- 0.64 vs 1.24 +/- 0.75; P=0.01). Fertilization rate did not differ between the two groups. A total of 22 pregnancies were obtained (13 in group A and 9 in group B; P=0.26). Clinical pregnancy rate and implantation rate were in tendency higher in the group cotreated with melatonin, although the differences did not reach statistical significance. Biochemical pregnancy rate and abortion rate were similar in both groups.

CONCLUSION:

melatonin ameliorates the activity of myo-inositol and folic acid by improving oocyte quality and pregnancy outcome in women with low oocyte quality history.

However, I've also heard from this site:http://www.vitamins-supplements.org/hormones/melatonin.php:

Administration of melatonin inhibits ovulation in humans by reducing luteinizing hormone concentrations. Melatonin supplements may benefit menopausal women by promoting and sustaining sleep.

There was a study done on rats in the early 1990,s which suggested that melatonin could stop ovulation, but I think it was very high doses, not the dose suggested to women (3mg). It was from here: http://www.healthy.net/scr/article.aspx?Id=3325

I also read that if you are getting good quality sleep, you shouldn't need melatonin and that it is a hormone, so it may upset your hormones. So now that has me concerned. I'm not sure if I want to keep taking it.

However, the inositol can't do any harm and it works as an anti-oxidant, so I'll keep taking it.

I'm thinking about reading some more and perhaps taking the melatonin occasionally, if I'm having trouble sleeping. I sleep quite well usually, and don't have lights on, so I probably don't need it.

After two miscarriages I suppose I'm open to doing anything if it gives me a chance at a healthy pregnancy and take home baby!

[LitMama]

Gumblossom, thank you for the fantastic information! Melatonin sounds both exciting/promising and somewhat worrisome. And 3 mgs, oy! That would knock me out for days. I'm usually a sound sleeper but tried 1.5 mgs recently as an experiment and was positively hung over the next day.

I emailed my RE to ask him about melatonin, inositol, folic acid and some other supplements, here was my question and his reply:

Q: Another question... do you have any information or an opinion on the use of any of these supplements for improving egg quality? -- Myo-Inositol, Folic Acid, Melatonin, Pycnogenol, Resveratol, CoQ10. I know some IVF clinics are recommending them.

A: I have heard of a few of the compounds you mentioned and know that there are no verified studies using any of them. All speculative. Among them, Myo-Inositol, Folic Acid have the greatest safety margin followed by CoQ. Less is known about the others. Of course you should be taking at least 400 mcg of folic acid daily anyway as it is important in the earliest part of pregnancy. By law in the U.S. It is part of anything labeled as a prenatal or multi-vitamin. 

Jenjersnap and others, here's some info on Inositol:

There are forums out there where women who have been on CCRM's (or another clinic's) protocol are discussing dosages, etc. Here is one of them, somewhat vague but does discuss dosages: 

http://forums.fertilitycommunity.com/vitro-fertilization-ivf/2020180326-ccrm-girls.html

The posters refer to a forum just for CCRM patients, maybe this would be helpful (I haven't read through it, but I do see that some posters indicate they have blogs where they discuss CCRM experiences): 

http://forums.fertilitycommunity.com/vitro-fertilization-ivf/2020180326-ccrm-girls.html

And here's a brief excerpt from the major study on Inositol (keeping it brief so I don't violate copyright law). I located the full text in a subscription-only database I have through my university, but you can find the citation right here in PubMed: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21514580. PubMed may carry full text of the article in the future, if not you can probably find it through your local public library's databases.

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Citation: The role of inositol supplementation in patients with polycystic ovary syndrome, with insulin resistance, undergoing the low-dose gonadotropin ovulation induction regimen  Fertility and Sterility, Volume 95, Issue 8, 30 June 2011, Page e57, Ettore Cittadini

In an attempt to evaluate the role of inositol supplementation in insulin-resistant patients with polycystic ovary syndrome (PCOS), undergoing gonadotropin ovulation induction using the low-dose step-down regimen, we conducted a prospective longitudinal study comparing the stimulation characteristics of 15 patients treated with inositol, to a cohort, matched by age and body mass index (BMI), without inositol. Inositol nutritional supplementation produced very good clinical results with a significant reduction in cancellation rate (0 vs. 40%) and the consequent improvement in clinical pregnancy rate (PR) (33.3% vs. 13.3%). (Fertil Steril 2011;95:2642–4. 2011 by American Society for Reproductive Medicine.)

Starting on January 2010, patients received, in addition to the low-dose step-down gonadotropin regimen, Redestop (Progine, Florence, Italy) powder (twice a day). The Redestop contains inositol (1,500 mg), lactoferrin (100 mg), and bromelain (20 mg), and it was started immediately after the infertility consultation, when patients received the ovulation induction treatment protocol (up
to 4 weeks before gonadotropin stimulation). Patients receiving Redestop (inositol group) were matched with age and body mass index (BMI) to the cohort of PCOS patients, with identical inclusion characteristics, who underwent the same low-dose step-down gonadotropin regimen, but without inositol (control group).

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However, concerns were subsequently raised by peers in a letter to the editor, which reads:

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To the Editor:

We read with great interest the article by Morgante et al. entitled “The role of inositol supplementation in patients with polycystic ovary syndrome, with insulin resistance, undergoing the low-dose gonadotropin ovulation induction regimen,” which was recently published in Fertility and Sterility. We do have some concerns about the methodology and conclusions of this study.

First of all, we do not understand the choice of a product whose indications are “pelvic inflammation and pain from oxidative stress.” Indeed, the multivitamin complex composition fully reflects the proposed indication: inositol, lactoferrin, magnesium, zinc, selenium, β-carotene, vitamin C, vitamin E, vitamin B6, bromelin, glutathione.
 

A major concern is that, despite the complex product composition, the control group received no treatment. Therefore, the conclusion that inositol administration diminishes the chance of multifollicular development and its consequences is a clear overstatement. Furthermore, I have some concerns about the reliability of pregnancy rates calculated on “timed intercourse” rather than by IVF, without reporting information about sperm quality or other parameters that could influence conception.Last but not least, the treatment period is not standardized, since patients were treated at a maximum for 4 weeks. On this basis, to assure the clarity of the information provided to the scientific community, a reply of the authors to these points is advised.

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Before locating this article, I didn't realize the protocol was for women with PCOS, so I wonder if it's relevant for those of us who don't? I was also surprised to see that the study only ran for 4 weeks! Well, apparently the results were significant enough that CCRM is now using it as part of their protocol.

[Stevi]

Isn't the inositol the same as a B Complex? If not, what is the difference?

[LitMama]

Hi Stevi, the Wikipedia entry for Inositol sort of explains that (it is confusing):

Myo-inositol was once considered as a member of the vitamin B complex, however, because it is produced by the human body from glucose, it is not an essential nutrient^[5]. Some substances such as niacin can also be synthesized in the body, but are not made in amounts considered adequate for good health, and thus are still classified as essential nutrients. However, there is no convincing evidence that this is the case for myo-inositol.

It's also confusing that there are so many forms of Inositol, and that there are at least two fertility studies I can think of that use different forms of it (Myoinositol and D-Chiro-Inositol, the Wikipedia entry talks about the study on DCI).

[jenjersnap]

Thank you for the info, LitMama and gumblossom.  Sounds like we are on similar pages re: the melatonin, gumblossom, after reading those conclusions.

Day 3 on the inositol and having a much better day with my tummy.  I hope I am over the hump.

Best wishes to all of you and many PTs for healthy babies in your futures.  (Back into lurk mode ...  if I am honest with myself I don't think it's going to happen for me and it's pointless for me to hang around only to harp on that here or in my head so better off lurking.  :) )

[Karalina]

Hello all

---

I am signing in to say I won't be on the board for awhile. I have my hands full with my three boys and sometimes I think the new life to come to me will be the new lives I have with my kids when I am totally focused on them and not on trying to create a new one. I also know I want to travel and I could love any child or baby and my heart will always be open to adding a new family member, so if I get pg or not, there's always the possibility of adding more to us.
I am ok with it for now.
I do so hope each of you gets your heart's desire, and if not..... I hope you can see the beauty in what you do have now. Lots and lots and lots of love to you all.... I may not be able to stay away bc I care about you all so much and love this board but I will try to focus on the here and now and take it as it comes. Sending love always"....".............

[WaturMama]

I sent Karalina a personal message because I don't know if she'll come back here for a while. I loved what she wrote--it has such a sense of purpose and openness. I've loved having her here and understand the need to move on.

How are folks doing with paleo and gluten-free diets? I saw my TCM person today and told her how overwhelmed I felt about the gluten-free idea. She suggested I try it for just 2 weeks and see if I notice any difference in my energy level and seasonal allergies. That sounded much more doable, but I will wait until it is a less hectic time.

[Stevi]

LitMama...   I take a B 50 Complex and would be a bit worried that the Inositol would be too much B. I doubled my B to 100 in the past and had some leg numbness so I had to go back to 50. The Melatonin sounds tempting, I don't sleep very well nowadays.

[gumblossom]

Karalina - I will miss you, but I really do understand how you feel.

I hope you will come back and see us some time.

Waturmama, I've failed with the paleo. I just can't stick to being grain free. I am gluten free and have been for some years. It really makes a difference to me. Before being gluten free I had gastro-intestinal problems for years, and also struggled with eczema and dematisis - especially on my hands. Being gluten free pretty well sorts it all out, though I do find too much fructose upsets my balance too - which I have read is due to the gluten intolerance. I don't find being gluten free difficult, but to cut our ALL grain feels too hard. I rely on rice a bit, and don't like anything much other than toast (gluten free sour dough made with tapioca, rice and potato flour.) I suppose it is close to paleo, but not exactly paleo.

I wonder if my gluten intolerance is an auto-immune thing which contributed to the miscarriages. But, I have had a blood test for anti-bodies and I didn't have them, so I guess it is an intolerance, not an allergy.

Lately I've struggled to stay away from sugar. Partly because of the miscarriage (when I'm not happy I crave it) and it is school break and we've had lots of visitors and friends, so we've been baking, going out for coffee (though I have tea) etc. There seems to be a lot of sugar involved in socializing. I'd like to change that.

How's everyone else doing with their diet?

One thing I have managed to do is to get up and do yoga every day (for the last week). It's something I'd like to maintain.

[Stevi]

Anyone ever had this?

I am on cd 9, just starting to get EWCM as I enter the fertile part of my cycle. I tested BFN on July 16th  cd4.

Here's my weirdness... My breasts are still sore. The soreness I sometimes get during my lp never went away with AF.

Is this bad? A sign of hormone changes? Any info is appreciated.

[lovestolearn]

I'm still Primal and 99% grain free these days.  Even moving to Santa Fe and all the Mexican & New Mexican cuisine hasn't tempted me into eating any corn tortillas, so far!  All the walking is helping me drop the last 1-2 lbs of belly fat and I am feeling good! 

Dreamed last night that we had a grown up son named Patrick--my grandfathers name...

Hot weather & long siestas are great for TTC!

[LitMama]

Oh, I'm going to miss Karalina! But what a beautiful message she's shared with us. Wow, lots of wisdom. I'll send her a pm, too.

Stevi, I too suddenly have breast tenderness throughout my cycle... I attributed it to hormone upset following my back-to-back chemical pgs. But I imagine it could be any sort of hormonal disturbance... have you been consuming anything that increases estrogen maybe?

WaturMama, I like your TCM person's idea about trying something for 2 weeks. That sounds like something you could learn a lot from without feeling like you are necessarily committing.

Gumblossom, I'm impressed by your daily yoga. I can't seem to make that happen, even though I tell myself... you brush your teeth every day, why not throw in some yoga, too? Your gluten free sourdough sounds delicious. Would you share the recipe?

So, perfect timing for this diet discussion... I spent an hour with a fertility nutritionist today who created a diet and supplement regimen for me specifically designed to improve egg quality. And... da da da!... I too am going gluten free! I have lots more info to share with you all as a result of this session, but it will take a while to type it out and I have to run.

I have resisted and resisted and resisted giving up gluten (and there are plenty more things I need to give up that I don't want to... the occasional half-cup of coffee or glass of red wine as a comfort while AF is visiting, the spelt banana bread with grain-sweetened chocolate chips that my DD and I make together). But as the nutritionist put it, "You should try this so you know that you are doing everything you can to make this happen." While I was driving home I saw a cool bumper sticker (which I believe was actually about guerilla gardening... quite a movement here in my town) that said, "Resistance is Fertile. Sow the Seeds." I laughed and thought, that could be my new motto. Resisting the resistance, that is.