Infant taken, drugged by MO state officials. - Page 3

[CrazyCatLady]

I just wish that people would consider how hurtful comments like this are to those who HAVE had their lives unnecessarily interfered with or even destroyed by CPS over AP (or even more frivolous) reasons.  Or maybe people do consider it and just don't care...since all of us who have experienced CPS involvement must be guilty of something.  It's just so hard.  It's like people in jail; everyone their says that their innocent and nobody believes them.  And for the most part, the majority are probably not innocent.  But sometimes people are truly and honestly innocent.  And when you are that person, where do you turn?  People say that news stations or lawyers or somebody would be all over cases like that.  But they're not.  You can't get anyone to hear you or believe you, because everyone assumes you must be guilty and a liar.  Nobody wants to talk about it.  People are either pro-CPS and don't want to hear from or believe people like me; or they are extremely anti-CPS and make people like me look nuts. :-/  I have yet to find the middle ground.

And I am not defending the family in this article.  Even after all that me and my kids have been through, I am not radically anti-CPS.  CPS varies so much by state, city, and county (shoot, even by individual social worker).  But just because CPS involvement hasn't happened to you doesn't mean that it couldn't.  The wrong/overzealous/lying social worker combined with a bad ex boyfriend or vindictive MIL and your life can change forever.  I'm not saying it happens a lot.  But it does happen, whether or not the majority wants to believe it.  And I can't blame you if you don't.  I'm going on a year of this hell and it still feels unreal and unbelievable to even me.

I won't post anymore on this thread since I realize how off topic this is in the vaccine forum.  I just read the comments, felt a bit hurt, and had to say something.  I'm glad that this baby seems to be doing better and is back home now.

Originally Posted by raelize 

I just want to say, as a child, all 5 of us were homebirthed, breastfed (till age 4 and tandemed!!!), co-slept and cloth diapered. and my mother didn't vax my youngest brother.  AND our health insurance was Kaiser Permanente for most of my childhood.  and she was never even threatened with CPS. not once. so, i am REALLY curious WHY you had so many run-ins with CPS.  i am 34 now.  and EVERYONE that i knew growing up lived a similar lifestyle. i honestly thought all babies were born at home and all mommies went to La Leche League until i was around 8.  and the only family that i knew that had CPS called on them had a serious sexual and physical abuse issue that resulted in one child being adopted out of the family.  i even knew homeschoolers before it was really legal and they never had problems. so, i have a hard time believing that those lifestyle choices would bring down CPS.

[BeckyBird]

Melaya, I'm so sorry to hear about this. I do hope you and your family can get through this ordeal.

[Alenushka]

Obviously , thing different  form state to state. My ER doc thought that cloth diapers were great in prevention of diaper rash.  What do you mean written up? What was ER docs issues with cloth?

Doctors are mandated reporters. They do not have to give a warming to the abusers if they see abuse. Giving a mixture (one can;t call it an infant formula) that will damage child's kidney is abuse.

Originally Posted by miriam 

So you are saying the doctor lied and turned them in to CPS behind their back? Then sent them a bill for his services. Seems like a failure in communication that the parents are bearing the brunt now. That is one of many reasons I do not trust doctors.  Trust is earned.  The medical community has not earned it from me. This happens too often.

As for the vax issue, any doctor will tell you it is a red flag and a reason to start looking for something else.  I was written up in an ER for cloth diapering and breastfeeding beyond a year.  They were digging deep on me. I still kept my child.  Believe me, not vaccinating your child makes you a social pariah.  Things have not changed in the attitudes of the medical community simply because we can log in to the internet and discuss the pros or cons of childhood vaccinations with people around the world.  I have lived that life and I know. 

[miriam]

Where I work, I see failing kidneys every day. These people are old and have abused their bodies (I work with veterans) on top of having the other issues WildKingdom mentioned.

Blame the victim.  

Originally Posted by 2xy 

Anyway, Miriam, if you don't trust doctors, why aren't you equally as suspicous of Dr. Humpheries? Is it because she says what you want to hear?

The same way you would find a doctor or expert who says what you want to hear.

I believe I stated previously that my late Father and my sister are doctors.  

What was ER docs issues with cloth?

I have his phone number; do you want to call and ask him?

[Alenushka]

What did the ER doctor told you? That just seems bizzare. Did you complain to the hospital Patient Relations department?

[2xy]

Originally Posted by miriam 

Blame the victim.  

Yeah, if someone's liver is 10 cm larger than normal and has fatty infiltration, it must be the flu vaccine he got and not the 40 years of hard liquor.

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by CrazyCatLady 

I just wish that people would consider how hurtful comments like this are to those who HAVE had their lives unnecessarily interfered with or even destroyed by CPS over AP (or even more frivolous) reasons.  Or maybe people do consider it and just don't care...since all of us who have experienced CPS involvement must be guilty of something.  It's just so hard.  

Sorry.  

I did not want to cast aspersions on miriam or anyone else who has had issues with CPS.

I mentioned I had never had CPS involved because I did not want people thinking refusing to vax alone will bring CPS down on your head.  It was not my experience or the experience of other non-vaxxers that I know.  

I do not doubt that perfectly good parents sometimes do have CPS involvement, for a variety of reason.

[CrazyCatLady]

Being a non-vaxer was never an issue with me and doctors, schools, ER staff, etc.  And it is not what caused cps involvement in my life, so you're right about that.  However, once the involvement happened, my being anti-vax got brought up a lot and twisted in some bad ways to use against me (among other things).  So yeah, being anti-vax probably will not ever bring CPS to your door.  But to say that they don't care about it at all isn't exactly accurate either.  And for what it's worth, my perfectly healthy six year old was fully vaxed against my will/consent within a week of entering the system.  As the parent, you lose all rights to make or have a say in any medical decision.  So not only was she taken from her mom, home, life...but she was fully vaccinated (which had to have been very scary for her, she knew darn well that we didn't believe in vaccines and why we didn't get them).
 

Originally Posted by kathymuggle 

I mentioned I had never had CPS involved because I did not want people thinking refusing to vax alone will bring CPS down on your head.  It was not my experience or the experience of other non-vaxxers that I know.  

I do not doubt that perfectly good parents sometimes do have CPS involvement, for a variety of reason.

[kathymuggle]

How horrible 

I would probably be threatening to sue someone if they vaxxed my children before total Termination of Parental Rights happened.

I know in many places you cannot sue CPS, or doing so is borderline futile/not worth the energy - but I would be so mad!

Ugh.  Much healing to you and your DD.  

Kathy

[wills_mom]

 Ok, there are some cases when CPS does help, and I admit that. But please know that there are also times where CPS might be wrong.

I agree, there are times when they are wrong. I think we can all cite cases where they have been overzealous or not nearly zealous enough in their investigations. It is a bureaucracy run by fallible people. Mistakes, poor decision making, bad judgment, all of that is possible. However, when someone says they have had multiple encounters with CPS, it sets up my radar and makes me question why. Especially when they claim it was for cloth diapering, breast feeding, home birthing, etc.
 

Originally Posted by miriam 

I have his phone number; do you want to call and ask him?

Wait, aren't your children grown? You have an ER doc's  phone number from decades ago?
 

[raelize]

Originally Posted by CrazyCatLady 

I just wish that people would consider how hurtful comments like this are to those who HAVE had their lives unnecessarily interfered with or even destroyed by CPS over AP (or even more frivolous) reasons.  Or maybe people do consider it and just don't care...since all of us who have experienced CPS involvement must be guilty of something.  It's just so hard.  It's like people in jail; everyone their says that their innocent and nobody believes them.  And for the most part, the majority are probably not innocent.  But sometimes people are truly and honestly innocent.  And when you are that person, where do you turn?  People say that news stations or lawyers or somebody would be all over cases like that.  But they're not.  You can't get anyone to hear you or believe you, because everyone assumes you must be guilty and a liar.  Nobody wants to talk about it.  People are either pro-CPS and don't want to hear from or believe people like me; or they are extremely anti-CPS and make people like me look nuts. :-/  I have yet to find the middle ground.

And I am not defending the family in this article.  Even after all that me and my kids have been through, I am not radically anti-CPS.  CPS varies so much by state, city, and county (shoot, even by individual social worker).  But just because CPS involvement hasn't happened to you doesn't mean that it couldn't.  The wrong/overzealous/lying social worker combined with a bad ex boyfriend or vindictive MIL and your life can change forever.  I'm not saying it happens a lot.  But it does happen, whether or not the majority wants to believe it.  And I can't blame you if you don't.  I'm going on a year of this hell and it still feels unreal and unbelievable to even me.

I won't post anymore on this thread since I realize how off topic this is in the vaccine forum.  I just read the comments, felt a bit hurt, and had to say something.  I'm glad that this baby seems to be doing better and is back home now.

I am very sorry you had such a trouble with CPS. i know very well that not all CPS cases are correct and that it does just take some very vindictive but simple accusations to get you under the microscope and your kids out of your hands.  i didn't mean to imply that.

 my issue was with someone using all these examples that in and of themselves shouldn't bring CPS.  i don't like the chicken little nature of the whole argument that if you practice AP you better watch out cause they will come and get you.  Miriam claimed that she had dealt with CPS many times and that makes me wonder why? because i imagine that if it was just a vindictive person attacking you, it would be one episode (maybe lasting over many years) but not multiple episodes. so if someone claims that they have had multiple episodes of CPS involvement, i would begin to question if it was really a simple matter of an ER doc calling because one used cloth diapers or extended breastfed.  maybe there is some fire with all that smoke. 

and if a parent is being investigated multiple times (as miriam seemed to be claiming) than i would probably not look to them for parenting advice.
 

[CrazyCatLady]

I totally get what you're saying.  And I know nothing about Miriam or her story.  I also don't (usually) think that being AP will bring cps to your door.  But I do know that once they are at your door for whatever reason, they can use your crunchy ways against you no matter how well researched or well spoken you may be.  And one ex boyfriend can keep calling and calling.  Then they have to investigate each and every time.  Right there that means multiple episodes of CPS involvement.  Because they keep opening and closing cases for every.single.report made.  The party who calls repeatedly is never held accountable for their bogus calls so they feel free to keep on calling and making your life difficult.  The closed cases don't just go away either...it stays in your file forever.  Then a couple of years later add a pissed off MIL who saw before how easy it was to call CPS on somebody (because she watched the whole situation with the ex boyfriend go down), so she then calls, and the investigating starts up again which equals more episodes of CPS involvement. 

I'm not saying that if someone has been called on by a variety of different people, that something might not be up.  Because if that many people are suspicious about something, then it may be worth investigating.  And I am not trying to lecture you specifically at all.  I just want the information out there for people who don't really know how the system works sometimes.  But it isn't always just as easy as show them your nice house, clean kids, etc. and it will all magically go away.  And having multiple cases of cps involvement doesn't necessarily mean that somebody is guilty either.  It could just mean that they know some really rude, clueless, or vindictive people. 

In my situation, I take complete responsibility for not completely cutting those people out of my life sooner.  That is where I screwed up.  But that doesn't make me guilty, a bad parent, or a child abuser...just because the system was used against me in such a terrible way.

Ok...again sorry for being off topic. I promise to stay out of this thread now.
 

Originally Posted by raelize 

I am very sorry you had such a trouble with CPS. i know very well that not all CPS cases are correct and that it does just take some very vindictive but simple accusations to get you under the microscope and your kids out of your hands.  i didn't mean to imply that.

 my issue was with someone using all these examples that in and of themselves shouldn't bring CPS.  i don't like the chicken little nature of the whole argument that if you practice AP you better watch out cause they will come and get you.  Miriam claimed that she had dealt with CPS many times and that makes me wonder why? because i imagine that if it was just a vindictive person attacking you, it would be one episode (maybe lasting over many years) but not multiple episodes. so if someone claims that they have had multiple episodes of CPS involvement, i would begin to question if it was really a simple matter of an ER doc calling because one used cloth diapers or extended breastfed.  maybe there is some fire with all that smoke. 

and if a parent is being investigated multiple times (as miriam seemed to be claiming) than i would probably not look to them for parenting advice.
 

[BeckyBird]

Originally Posted by raelize 

I am very sorry you had such a trouble with CPS. i know very well that not all CPS cases are correct and that it does just take some very vindictive but simple accusations to get you under the microscope and your kids out of your hands.  i didn't mean to imply that.

 my issue was with someone using all these examples that in and of themselves shouldn't bring CPS.  i don't like the chicken little nature of the whole argument that if you practice AP you better watch out cause they will come and get you.  Miriam claimed that she had dealt with CPS many times and that makes me wonder why? because i imagine that if it was just a vindictive person attacking you, it would be one episode (maybe lasting over many years) but not multiple episodes. so if someone claims that they have had multiple episodes of CPS involvement, i would begin to question if it was really a simple matter of an ER doc calling because one used cloth diapers or extended breastfed.  maybe there is some fire with all that smoke. 

and if a parent is being investigated multiple times (as miriam seemed to be claiming) than i would probably not look to them for parenting advice.
 

Have you considered that, along with her own involvement, she might have been talking about CPS involvement of family or friends? It might not be just her own involvement with the CPS. Did she ever say that it was solely her own involvement going on? 

A lot of assumptions being thrown around here (my own included, I get it) As I stated in my previous post, my experience with CPS involved my own family member, not myself. But, if I say I had a bad experience with CPS, all of a sudden people would jump to conclusions and decide I'm a bad mother who has no right to give advice. When, in fact, I DID have a bad experience with CPS, because I feel they failed to help my family.