Anyone do local/seasonal primal/paleo? What does it look like?

[rockycrop]

I feel like I go back and forth between my local/seasonal foods and primal, but do I have to?  Can you do both?

My background: we get most of our food from an amazing CSA.  They are "beyond organic" and they do meat, produce, raw dairy and some prepared stuff.  She's into Weston A. Price, the cows are 100% grass fed, the feed they do give to the pigs and chickens is soy and corn free, etc., etc.  I've stopped drinking the milk and eating the cheese (I still do butter occasionally) because of my baby's congestion (it's definitely helped).  I'm also a little doomy, I'm not a paranoid conspiracy theorist, but I definitely think there is a possibility that our lives could change rapidly and dramatically at some point in the future.  I strive to at least know how I could be self-sustaining.  I'd like to build a house with a greenhouse someday, as well as an extensive outside garden.  I raise meal worms for supplementary protein.  I want to get back on a gluten-free, low grain diet because I have been eating kind of crappy lately.  Cooking is not my strong point, although I will happily do labor and time intensive "kitchen chores" (grinding corn by hand, churning butter).  Putting ingredients together to make something bigger/better than the sum of their parts still alludes me.  Tonight my dinner was purslane and yellow sorrel I pulled up from the yard and butter I "churned" (shook up in a container for 15 mins straight).

Would you/could you be self sufficient AND primal?  I think it would hard without being an actual hunter/gatherer, and living among a group of other hunter/gatherers.  I like the backup of having dried beans and corn to grind.  I also really like beans and corn, the food they give and the plants themselves.

Having a hard time reigning in my thoughts here.  I love the idea of primal eating, but it seems so grocery store based to me.  All the avocados and the coconut (I also love coconut) and the macadamia nuts and the salads 365 days a year.  Looking for real world ideas and experiences, like what would you be eating in the winter besides meat and winter squash?

[bodhitree]

I definitely don't think you have to eat tons of coconut products and salads every day to have a healthy primal/paleo diet. (Pretty sure "Grok" wasn't living off of coconut and lettuce all year round.) You could do your own rendered animal fats instead of coconut oil. For veggies in the winter, you could do stored root vegetables, winter squash, and fermented veggies--after all, that was part of the point of why people started making sauerkraut and kimchi: to preserve vegetables for winter use. Some fruits also store well through the winter, like apples and pears. You could grow your own sunflowers and preserve the seeds for winter use. You could also dry some vegetables.

Basically, I think you need a root cellar. But I'd think that if you're willing to put in some effort, you could totally make it work.

[rockycrop]

Yes a root cellar!  And there's canning, I don't know why I didn't think of that.

I know my OP wasn't very cohesive, I have all these thoughts bubbling around about food and not many people to talk to about them.  I've been reading a lot of paleo blogs lately, there is just soooo much info to take in.  It's like we trying to emulate our ancestors in a society that's not set up for that way of life anymore.  Grok wouldn't have been eating coconut and lettuce, he would be killing bison and elk.  I guess people do that now though.  I need to learn to hunt (and a big freezer)!

I think I also need to learn how to sprout beans and nixtamalize corn.  I have such a deep love and respect for Mesoamerican history and culture, it would be like a spiritual amputation to cut those foods out of my diet.  If I am being honest, I guess I just want permission from the internet to keep eating the foods I want to eat!   Sparingly, 80/20 as they say.

So, perhaps primal self sufficiency would look something like this:

-MEAT, and lots of it (wild game large and small, maybe a feeder pig [pork is my meat of choice], side of beef, insects)

-spring produce: greens, asparagus, radishes

-summer produce: greens, tomatoes, eggplant, peppers, summer squash, cabbage, peaches, berries

-fall produce: greens, tomatoes, potatoes, peppers, squash, sweet potatoes, apples

-overwintering produce: potatoes, winter squash, sweet potatoes, apples, some dried beans, dried corn

-processed (canned or fermented) foods: sauerkraut, pickles, tomato sauce, salsa, green chile sauce (yum!), apple butter, jam

-lard

-eggs

-nuts from local nut trees

-anything else that can be foraged

(I'm under no illusions that I would be doing all this myself, while some people might be able to do that, I'm a big proponent of trade within a community!)

I'm sure I forgot some things, but that's a start anyway.

[craft_media_hero]

Don't forget drying!

Dried raisins, apricots, etc.
Dehydrated chopped veggies or fruits from harvest time could be a winter stew or chutney. Dried chiles can combine with beans for a flavorful chile.

Fish? Seafood? It makes sense to me that prehistoric folks would've taken a seasonal trip to nearby beach, river, lake to reap whatever bounty their local waters had to give. These could be dried or go in your freezer or hey ferment up some cod livers!

Honey! A great energy food for all times of year.

A cold frame/hot bed would really extend your fresh produce season. You can leave some root crops innthe ground during the cold season and then dig them out as needed.

How 'bout micro greens? Sprouting may not have been a primal activity, but I imagine Grok would have taken advantage of moss or any other bit of greens peeking through the snow in the winter.

Oh, oh, and something I've been thinking about is growing fungi in my crawlspace. Surely our ancestors knew which shrooms and where.

I think the biggest challenge would be sticking it out through the winter.

Btw, I admire your mealy worm consumption, that is hardcore!

[littlest birds]

IMO our diets don't have to be very diverse if the core foods are nutrient-rich.  Historically, eating the same few things day after day was pretty typical I think, and that did not mean health was compromised.  (It's compromised when those same few things are mostly grains, as has often happened in more recent history--the resulting deficiencies are the reason we have all the recommendations to supplement our grain diets with a "rainbow" of fruits and veggies.  Not warranted when we've shifted to the richer foods.)  We have been raised on the idea that we have to eat lots of different foods to be well-nourished, and I have become very skeptical of it.  

I think it's okay to eat lightly of vegetables during winter as well and to go mainly with fermented ones plus easy keepers.  BTW in my location salad greens are seasonal Sept-Dec and March-May and we stick mainly to spinach. The fresh-veggie season can be pretty long with different foods overlapping.  I eat preserved fish quite a bit which I wouldn't likely have access to in post-disaster reality--we are in a landlocked location--but what about dried seaweeds as they are easier to handle and transport?

I am not trying to be self-sufficient, being put in that position would certainly bring a whole new set of limitations and opportunities, different ways of being in community, etc.  Hard to predict what kind of opportunistic we would need to be, but adaptability will be the biggest quality needed I'm sure.  And self-sufficiency will be one part of that adaptability...  I do have a LOT of practice with skills in gardening as I raise an extensive garden, but I don't try to be self-sufficient.  I do raise tradable goods and the well-practiced skills to maintain a garden myself without access to seed companies.  I think there is a limit to how prepared we can make ourselves when we don't know what factors will come into play as things break down.  What will happen to property ownership along the way?  (Will we have a home secure enough to garden?)  What physical dangers will there be?  Will our food be stolen?  I am not able or willing to plan ahead for this beyond practicing the skills I use for living anyway.  I do think food will become more scarce and expensive at some point, due to issues of transportation/fuel, but this may be very slow and gradual only without a significant breakdown of law and order as we know it.  That would be more ideal for greater food self-sufficiency.  I hope we're that lucky.

[rockycrop]

Originally Posted by craft_media_hero 

Don't forget drying!

Dried raisins, apricots, etc.
Dehydrated chopped veggies or fruits from harvest time could be a winter stew or chutney. Dried chiles can combine with beans for a flavorful chile.

Fish? Seafood? It makes sense to me that prehistoric folks would've taken a seasonal trip to nearby beach, river, lake to reap whatever bounty their local waters had to give. These could be dried or go in your freezer or hey ferment up some cod livers!

Honey! A great energy food for all times of year.

A cold frame/hot bed would really extend your fresh produce season. You can leave some root crops innthe ground during the cold season and then dig them out as needed.

How 'bout micro greens? Sprouting may not have been a primal activity, but I imagine Grok would have taken advantage of moss or any other bit of greens peeking through the snow in the winter.

Oh, oh, and something I've been thinking about is growing fungi in my crawlspace. Surely our ancestors knew which shrooms and where.

I think the biggest challenge would be sticking it out through the winter.

Btw, I admire your mealy worm consumption, that is hardcore!

Yes, fish for sure! (And fish eggs...fresh catfish eggs are one of the best things I've ever eaten). I only really eat fish now when someone feeds it to me, or if someone catches it and offers it to me.  I don't buy farmed fish cause of the omega-6 issues, and I just (wrongly maybe?) assume all wild fish are over-fished.

Growing fungi is a great idea too, or even just learning what wild ones are edible.  I always get excited around morel season because everyone gets so into wild gathering!  Along with the beans and corn, gathering is another key element in my food/spiritual relationship with the earth.

Originally Posted by littlest birds 

IMO our diets don't have to be very diverse if the core foods are nutrient-rich.  Historically, eating the same few things day after day was pretty typical I think, and that did not mean health was compromised.  (It's compromised when those same few things are mostly grains, as has often happened in more recent history--the resulting deficiencies are the reason we have all the recommendations to supplement our grain diets with a "rainbow" of fruits and veggies.  Not warranted when we've shifted to the richer foods.)  We have been raised on the idea that we have to eat lots of different foods to be well-nourished, and I have become very skeptical of it.  

I think it's okay to eat lightly of vegetables during winter as well and to go mainly with fermented ones plus easy keepers.  BTW in my location salad greens are seasonal Sept-Dec and March-May and we stick mainly to spinach. The fresh-veggie season can be pretty long with different foods overlapping.  I eat preserved fish quite a bit which I wouldn't likely have access to in post-disaster reality--we are in a landlocked location--but what about dried seaweeds as they are easier to handle and transport?

I am not trying to be self-sufficient, being put in that position would certainly bring a whole new set of limitations and opportunities, different ways of being in community, etc.  Hard to predict what kind of opportunistic we would need to be, but adaptability will be the biggest quality needed I'm sure.  And self-sufficiency will be one part of that adaptability...  I do have a LOT of practice with skills in gardening as I raise an extensive garden, but I don't try to be self-sufficient.  I do raise tradable goods and the well-practiced skills to maintain a garden myself without access to seed companies.  I think there is a limit to how prepared we can make ourselves when we don't know what factors will come into play as things break down.  What will happen to property ownership along the way?  (Will we have a home secure enough to garden?)  What physical dangers will there be?  Will our food be stolen?  I am not able or willing to plan ahead for this beyond practicing the skills I use for living anyway.  I do think food will become more scarce and expensive at some point, due to issues of transportation/fuel, but this may be very slow and gradual only without a significant breakdown of law and order as we know it.  That would be more ideal for greater food self-sufficiency.  I hope we're that lucky.

Ugh, my husband is always telling me: "Let's simplify our diet, I just wanna eat 5 things."  And so I try to work out a reasonable plan for that, and we do it for awhile, and he always derails the train!  He goes out and buys hot dogs and sandwich meat and a bunch of junk, and then the cycle starts all over again.  He drives me crazy with that.  It does get hard when your used to having a really varied diet (with lots of "treats") to simplify.  For him anyway I guess.  It would probably also help if I was a better cook and could spice things up differently.

But yeah, I don't worry too much about veggies in winter (green ones anyway).  Winter is my favorite eating season, I will eat the hell outta some sweet potatoes. And stews.

I don't get too into the "what-ifs" of doom culture.  I'm just really into the "what can I learn how to do for myself regardless of what happens in the future".  My FIL is always telling us to stock up on like a year's supply of dry goods, but that seems crazy extreme to me.  I agree that a change will probably be a slow, gradual process.  The "apocalypse" just might happen without anyone noticing.