or Connect
Mothering › Mothering Forums › Mom › Parenting › CIO in the car and I HATE IT!!!
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

CIO in the car and I HATE IT!!! - Page 3

post #41 of 154

I think the original poster would have to gauge her 4yo's own expectations and potential emotional response concerning camp and weigh that against her LO's need for mama during the drive. Maybe the OP might decide camp is meaningful enough to the older son to handle a little crying... but maybe not. I do not think it is harsh to suggest that the OP *consider* her older son missing out. Only she can weigh the options and make the choice appropriate for her family. I just wanted to put out there that maybe this could be avoided completely #shrug.

post #42 of 154
That's just one place she drives, though. I know some people who live in big cities with good public transportation options have talked about walking or taking public tranportation, but many of us don't have an option to not drive for 6 months or a year. Driving isn't optional for me at all. Luckily, my child who didn't like the car is my first born so other children's activities weren't an issue. But I still had groceries, doctor appointments, and other non-optional errands. AND I had PPD with that one and simply had to get out to a support group regularly for my own mental health, and to help me be a better mom. I think the suggestion that she not drive for months on end is completely unrealistic, and she doesn't need to be saddled with guilt over something outside her control. Don't drive when you don't have to, but the older child shouldnt' be stuck at home for months on end either, and don't beat yourself up over something you can't control. Do what you can and be peace with that which is outside of your control.
post #43 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by changingseasons View Post



I completely agree. CIO in a room by themselves, or CIO in a seat by themselves (while hearing a voice) is really no different, regardless of your intention. Although it might be a pita for a while, you might just have to stay home until your little one is more comfortable in the car. (I'm sure your older kiddo will turn out just fine being home-bound for 6 months or so.) Babies don't cry for no reason. Maybe the vibration of the car is frightening or painful for some reason. (Maybe try some chiro/CST to see if that helps?) But whatever the reason, your baby is sending you a signal that it NEEDS you. Not just your voice, but your physical presence. And your response is normal, not ppd irked.gif. Your maternal instincts are SUPPOSED to trigger you to jump at your baby's sign of pain/hunger/whatever. The fact that it's bothering you to hear your baby cry is a sign of your strong bond with your baby. If you continue to tune it out, you may become numb to those cues and weaken that bond.

 

I completely disagree.

 

Look, babies are alone in the womb. Except that they hear their mothers' heartbeats and voices.

 

Babies who are sick (mine was in the NICU where we did as much holding as possible, but he had to be there and he had to be under the lights or he would have at least had permanent brain damage), babies whose mothers are sick (my mother was rehospitalized when I was an infant), etc. Not all these babies are doomed forever.

 

OP, I always sang to my babies in the car when they were upset. Of course it's not as good as holding them and not driving, but it is not the same at all as leaving them to learn to self-soothe. Intent matters. What is going on around the child matters.  Even very young babies will respond to a parent's voice. You are not numbing yourself to your child's distress if you are soothing them (while driving safely) any more than if you are holding them and typing at the keyboard (a VERY UNNATURAL ACTIVITY) you are ruining your bond because you are thinking about a forum.

 

I think it might be helpful to look on this as a continuum rather than a black and white issue. There are degrees of soothing and comfort, and you offer your child the best you have at the time you can. That matters. Your baby will hear you.

 

Then you trust in allllllll the other hours of the day when the comfort you can offer is even better, the natural resilience of children (and I don't mean that in a "let's push it by leaving them for 12 hours in the dark), and the quality of your family and parenting. A loving, non-resentful sibling; a mother with the ability to go and get a tea if she needs one - these also are gifts to your child. Much support to you.

 

post #44 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by coffeegirl View Post



 

Seriously? Wow.

 

"So sorry, older DS. Sucks to be you....but the baby has needs right now and they come before your own needs. I'm sure you understand." That's what it sounds like you're saying.


 

 


Really? Camp is a "need"? WOW, right back at 'ya. And yes, a child who is in serious turmoil (pain/anger/sadness/trauma of any kind) should absolutely be given first priority, at that moment. It's not as though the younger one will NEVER be able to ride in a car. eyesroll.gif It's a temporary situation, which is why I said I'm sure the older one will manage just fine being at home for a few months. Daily social outings are NOT A NEED. There are plenty of things that could be done at home or withing walking/bus distance (whichever is available, depending on your location) to keep an older child happy and fulfilled without causing trauma to the younger child.

eta: I'm not saying that the OP should NEVER drive. Obviously, there are times when you just have to. But the suggestion that "it's not fair" to keep the older child at home every day temporarily doesn't make any sense to me.
post #45 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuildJenn View Post



 

I completely disagree.

 

Look, babies are alone in the womb. Except that they hear their mothers' heartbeats and voices.



Ummmmm.... they are connected to you. Part of your body. Touching you 24/7. That is not the same as just hearing your voice, sorry.
post #46 of 154

first off ((hugs)) it is so so hard to listen to your baby cry, it is suppose to be. if it didn't upset you, there would be a problem. although normally i don't say this sort of stuff i would have to agree if there is anyway to not drive someplace i would do that. is there anyone close to you that wouldn't mind picking up your older child? (someone whose child is going to camp also?) is there a bus you can take (i know those take alot longer, but maybe baby could handle it better?) my kids LOVE the bus, so it could add to the fun of going to camp. lol if there is no other choice... gosh i don't know. i mean i get that the older child likes camp and should be able to go, but then the little one shouldn't have to cry like that either. so tuff sometimes. 

anyway, you don't need to toughen up, your a good mama who has compassion for your child. the idea that you shouldn't be sad or upset by your baby crying in the car because he isn't getting chemo is just plain weird. so as long as your kid isn't dying you should be ok with sobbing for a car ride. 

maybe a paci would help? maybe the TV? 

our baby doesn't like the car either so i try to not take her if i can avoid it. or we take a bus. sometimes we do miss out, but it has gotten better. i sing to her (so do the other kids) and they talk to her for the car rides, and she sucks on my finger.

 

it does get better. ((hug))

post #47 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by changingseasons View Post



Really? Camp is a "need"? WOW, right back at 'ya. And yes, a child who is in serious turmoil (pain/anger/sadness/trauma of any kind) should absolutely be given first priority, at that moment. It's not as though the younger one will NEVER be able to ride in a car. eyesroll.gif It's a temporary situation, which is why I said I'm sure the older one will manage just fine being at home for a few months. Daily social outings are NOT A NEED. There are plenty of things that could be done at home or withing walking/bus distance (whichever is available, depending on your location) to keep an older child happy and fulfilled without causing trauma to the younger child.

eta: I'm not saying that the OP should NEVER drive. Obviously, there are times when you just have to. But the suggestion that "it's not fair" to keep the older child at home every day temporarily doesn't make any sense to me.


The OP said her son goes to camp 2 days out of the week. That's hardly daily.

 

Second, if the only socialization they get is to go out, then it IS a need. Humans are social creatures. Being cooped up in a house with only mom, a young baby and a 4 year old for half a year is insane.

 

AP is not about extremes. The OP is not a long distance truck driver. She's a mom of TWO. It's easier to move around heaven and earth with only one child. The fact is, with two, there will be times where one child does NOT get their needs met immediately. Or ever, if it's in direct conflict with the other child's need. My 4 yr old's need to snuggle all night long does not get met. Sure, I snuggle him, but definitely not all night. Same with the baby. I'm sure he'd love to be latched on all night long--not going to happen. Mom needs sleep and a good back.

 

The amount of crying, the actual circumstances around the crying, etc, make it definitely not CIO. A good mom is affected by her baby's cries. However, it doesn't mean that this natural mothering reaction indicates that something is harmful/serious. Moms are known to freak out over the tiniest things, even mom's of many do it. Just because I feel anxious when my son has the stomach bug doesn't mean I need to rush him to the hospital after the first vomit, kwim?

 

Ami

post #48 of 154

oh goodness, I can totally see why it affecting you. I think regardless of the rights and wrongs, regardless of what its doing to the babies brain-its going to mess with YOUR brain. We are programmed to respond to our infants and an hour of crying from your newborn is probably close to torture on a physiological level. I TOTALLY get why you are so stressed. Its not about logic, its about biology.

 

Its not CIO. Totally not. CIO has a whole lot of other baggage attatched. TBH, with 2+ kids, there is always going to be an amount of crying anyway. My first child almost never cried. My second one, 22 months later, did-because I had two sets of needs to meet. (my third child didn't so much but that was because I had a slightly bigger gap and she had two doting older siblings).

 

I'd use a pacifier, I'd use TV, I'd do whatever it takes. With 2+ kids, this is reality, making sure everyones needs are as close as possible to being met as best as possible. Someone needs to bring out an AP book for families with siblings, along the lines of "its ok just to do your best and you know what? your needs matter too"

post #49 of 154

oh just to add. OP, you will be the best barometer of whether this camp is a need or a want. I can see it both ways. For a kid who has just had their world shaken up with a new baby, going to a twice weekly camp might be really what they need at that moment. Or YOU might actually really need that time with just the new baby.

 

Just a thought-and I'm not in the US and don't totally get the whole camp thing-is there any way you can either car share or just hang around there for the rest of the day to minimise the trips? Just sit in a coffee shop or library or something? 

post #50 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by changingseasons View Post




Ummmmm.... they are connected to you. Part of your body. Touching you 24/7. That is not the same as just hearing your voice, sorry.


How do you know what it's like for them?

 

You don't. Scaring the OP as if she's abandoning her child in the  car is totally uncalled for. Judgment like that -- when you have NO IDEA if it's harmful; there has NOT been research on kids crying in cars, and the research on crying in general is unclear -- is what makes people give up, get depressed, and because much worse parents for their kids. Women burn out and this is one reason why.   Not only that but older kids are important too.

 

This discussion just highlights how anti-family AP can be when taken to extremes.

 

post #51 of 154

Just a lurker who saw your post.  When my youngest was a newborn on, all she did was scream in the car.  There wasn't anything I could do about it.  She simply hated the car.  This went on for a year.  Once she went forward facing, it got a whole lot better.  She also hated the stroller (slings are a wonderful invention) until she climbed into it at 12 months and pointed forward.   She is 9 now, so I don't have the toddler issues anymore. 

 

I just wanted to let you know it does get better as they get older. 

post #52 of 154

As for camp.....

 

Does your son want to go?  Have you asked?  Sometimes kids are neutral on things and we stress ourselves out getting them there for no great reason.  I would ask him but I would not bring up the baby screaming at all.

 

If he is only half sold on going to camp I would quit.  80 minutes on days he goes to camp of screaming  must be hard on everyone. 

 

The OP is the only would who can decide whether going places is worth the angst.

 

As per whether it is CIO or not - meh.  I do not really think of crying in those terms.  I think it is best if babies can be soothed (obviously) or at least held in arms while they cry - but sometimes for a variety of reason that is not going to happen.  Car drives are one - I would reduce driving with the baby in the car  but sometimes car drives are going to happen.  TBH (looking back on things) I wish I had driven a little less when my kids were in the screaming phase -or at least left them home with DP when I shopped, etc.   It is a brief phase.

 

I do not think children are scarred by crying without being picked up on occasion.  I doubt there are very many of us who have always, alway , always had our cries attended to - life does not work that way.


Edited by purslaine - 7/17/11 at 6:41am
post #53 of 154

I think your son needs his camp and I think you need your son to be at camp, so you have a little time to slow down and focus on your baby. You are not damaging your baby because of those car rides. I'm 100% sure. 

post #54 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by changingseasons View Post



Really? Camp is a "need"? WOW, right back at 'ya. And yes, a child who is in serious turmoil (pain/anger/sadness/trauma of any kind) should absolutely be given first priority, at that moment. It's not as though the younger one will NEVER be able to ride in a car. eyesroll.gif It's a temporary situation, which is why I said I'm sure the older one will manage just fine being at home for a few months. Daily social outings are NOT A NEED. There are plenty of things that could be done at home or withing walking/bus distance (whichever is available, depending on your location) to keep an older child happy and fulfilled without causing trauma to the younger child.

eta: I'm not saying that the OP should NEVER drive. Obviously, there are times when you just have to. But the suggestion that "it's not fair" to keep the older child at home every day temporarily doesn't make any sense to me.

 

Other poeple have said it better, but....yeah, camp very well might be a need  for the older child. I don't understand the attitude of assuming that's the older kids' needs and wants aren't as important as the baby's in order to worship at the altar of the "anti-CIO" sacred cow. Which, don't get me wrong....I think we can all get behind to some extent or another. But "serious turmoil"? You have no way of knowing that. And you and I have no idea how "temporary" this situation could or will be.

 

What if the baby NEVER get over screaming in the car...what would you suggest for the mom then when she's the only parent at home? That they never drive? Or does the "serious trauma" of the crying suddenly become ok at a certain age...?
 

 

post #55 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannah32 View Post

I think your son needs his camp and I think you need your son to be at camp, so you have a little time to slow down and focus on your baby. You are not damaging your baby because of those car rides. I'm 100% sure.



I reread the OP's comments on this thread.  She did not say whether her son really loves/needs going, or whether she was feeling the strong need for some one-on-one time for the baby.  

 

It may be that your post is the case (and I totally agree with you on the bolded part) but it is hard to know without further information.

 

Only the OP can know whether or not any trip is worth the angst and screaming (even if it is not harmful in the long term - it is very unpleasant for all involved) against the benefit of going where she is going.

 

 

 

 

post #56 of 154



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by changingseasons View Post



Really? Camp is a "need"? WOW, right back at 'ya. And yes, a child who is in serious turmoil (pain/anger/sadness/trauma of any kind) should absolutely be given first priority, at that moment. It's not as though the younger one will NEVER be able to ride in a car. eyesroll.gif It's a temporary situation, which is why I said I'm sure the older one will manage just fine being at home for a few months. Daily social outings are NOT A NEED. There are plenty of things that could be done at home or withing walking/bus distance (whichever is available, depending on your location) to keep an older child happy and fulfilled without causing trauma to the younger child.

eta: I'm not saying that the OP should NEVER drive. Obviously, there are times when you just have to. But the suggestion that "it's not fair" to keep the older child at home every day temporarily doesn't make any sense to me.


I really disagree with this.  When our youngest was born last year our twins were just finishing up their school year and we decided (after discussing it with them) to enroll them in A.M. summer camp.  As you should know, it is pretty common for older siblings to have some mixed emotions when a new baby is introduced into the family, and it's incredibly important to be sensitive to their needs and balance them with the needs of the new baby.  I'm really surprised that anyone could be so insensitive to the emotions of an adolescent child(ren) who may very well be quite stressed themselves by the changes that have taken place in their family by having a new baby who is likely (and understandably) taking away a good deal of the parents' attention from them.

 

My kids would have gone completely crazy if they have been cooped up in the house for so long (up to 6 months, that's an eternity for a 4 or 5 yo kid!) without getting out for any reasonable period of time.  (Btw, getting the older two out of the house for a few hours a day definitely freed me up to spend some quality one on one time with the baby and bond with him more, which sure sounds like a positive to me.)  They loved being in camp. they got to go to the pool and do fun activities and socialize with other kids their age, and it would have been really unfair and downright cruel to them to say, too bad for you, the baby doesn't like being in the car/stroller/carrier (which all made him scream at various times) so we aren't going anywhere ever again until we know the baby will never spend a second crying in any of these means of conveying him somewhere outside the house.  Nope, sorry, Daddy has to leave for work long before camp starts so he can't take you, and we don't have anybody else who is willing to inconvenience themselves every day to take you back and forth to camp, so you lose.  How horrible would that have been? 

 

I also vehemently disagree that crying in the car is CIO or in any way deliterious to a baby's mental or neurogical well-being, but I'm quite certain that our systematically prioritizing preventing the baby from crying under any and all circumstances over the needs or even the wants of our older kids may very well have left a lasting and negative impression on them that could last a lifetime.  Whenever he's in the car the baby sits directly behind me less than 3 feet away, and he can hear me the entire time.  He also has had both of his brothers sitting on either side of him trying to comfort him whenever he cried as well.  We did our best with the situation and the baby ended up being perfectly fine.  It's hard enough as a parent to take care of a newborn and older children, let's not heap additional guilt and worry on them that they are permanently scarring their baby if they cry sometimes in the car. 
 

 

post #57 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by coffeegirl View Post



 

Other poeple have said it better, but....yeah, camp very well might be a need  for the older child. I don't understand the attitude of assuming that's the older kids' needs and wants aren't as important as the baby's in order to worship at the altar of the "anti-CIO" sacred cow. Which, don't get me wrong....I think we can all get behind to some extent or another. But "serious turmoil"? You have no way of knowing that. And you and I have no idea how "temporary" this situation could or will be.

 

What if the baby NEVER get over screaming in the car...what would you suggest for the mom then when she's the only parent at home? That they never drive? Or does the "serious trauma" of the crying suddenly become ok at a certain age...?
 

 



Bolds mine.

 

There seems to be a bit of an anti AP thing going on at MDC at the moment (totally ironic)  but sometimes I think it spills over into advice.  "Anti-CIO sacred cow???".  That reads as offensive to me.  There are some darn good reason not to do CIO that go well beyond trying to be crunchier-than-thou.

 

This mom is hurting.  Have you read her posts?  She is not doing so well with the baby screaming.  Nowhere has she said the camp is important to her son.  He might love and need it or he might not.  Honestly if her kid really loves camp or she really wants some one on one time with the baby, I am totally behind her driving to camp.  She, however, has not said how important the camp is to her family.    Perhaps the fact that she is going to camp means you assume it is important to her, but my own btdt tells me it is not always the case.  People sign up for things, etc, without really realising how much people are getting out of it.

 

OT (as I do not think it applies here): In multi-children families siblings do sacrifice for other siblings.  That is reality.  Older sibling are brought to kiddie stuff they find boring, or watch their siblings a little more than they should; younger siblings get dragged to one too many sporting events, etc, etc. One should minimize it - but that is about it.    As long as one sibling is not doing more sacrificing in general and over the long term than another sibling, it's fine.

 

Lastly, numerous posters her have said their kids kids got over screaming in the car in a reasonable amount of time.  I think all of my kids got over it in under a year.  It is not going to last forever - and the OP should not assume it should (shudder).  

 

 

 

 

 

post #58 of 154

OP, I don't know if you are still reading this thread, but I wanted to ask - does your 3mo hold toys yet?  I know 3mo is a bit young for that, but once he starts holding toys, you might consider getting him a baby photo album or a baby picture frame and put your picture in it for him to look at while you're driving.  Then, even though he can't see you, he can still see you, yk?

 

And yeah, the crying in the car thing totally SUCKS - my friends ds hates the car, even at 2yo now.  His limit is 20min per day - after that he screams.  She hates it, but they have to go places, and he's certainly not damaged.  He's a delightful little guy, precious as can be, he just hates the car.  Try not to worry about it, turn up the radio if that helps you, and give lots of snuggles when you reach your destination.

post #59 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post





Bolds mine.

 

There seems to be a bit of an anti AP thing going on at MDC at the moment (totally ironic)  but sometimes I think it spills over into advice.  "Anti-CIO sacred cow???".  That reads as offensive to me.  There are some darn good reason not to do CIO that go well beyond trying to be crunchier-than-thou.

 

This mom is hurting.  Have you read her posts?  She is not doing so well with the baby screaming.  Nowhere has she said the camp is important to her son.  He might love and need it or he might not.  Honestly if her kid really loves camp or she really wants some one on one time with the baby, I am totally behind her driving to camp.  She, however, has not said how important the camp is to her family.    Perhaps the fact that she is going to camp means you assume it is important to her, but my own btdt tells me it is not always the case.  People sign up for things, etc, without really realising how much people are getting out of it.

 

OT (as I do not think it applies here): In multi-children families siblings do sacrifice for other siblings.  That is reality.  Older sibling are brought to kiddie stuff they find boring, or watch their siblings a little more than they should; younger siblings get dragged to one too many sporting events, etc, etc. One should minimize it - but that is about it.    As long as one sibling is not doing more sacrificing in general and over the long term than another sibling, it's fine.

 

Lastly, numerous posters her have said their kids kids got over screaming in the car in a reasonable amount of time.  I think all of my kids got over it in under a year.  It is not going to last forever - and the OP should not assume it should (shudder).  

 

 

 

 

 



 

I'm sorry. You're right, "anti-CIO sacred cow " sounds very....snarky. I shouldn't post when I'm annoyed.

 

But there's nothing here, or in what I've said, that's anti-AP. I don't see where this ties in to any larger symptom you're seeing on the board. I've been here since long before the big change. In this thread it's the (IMO) somewhat callous dismissal of the older child's feelings and needs that I'm reacting to. A few posters are taking that stance because OF COURSE a baby crying should take priority over anything else, and they're throwing around words like "damage" and "trauma" (which are part of anti-CIO rhetoric-- fact.) Basically they're equating the OP's dilemma with CIO. I don't think that's fair or accurate. Opinions may vary.

post #60 of 154

Just to add that I had 2 kids who cried constantly in the car, both until they were about a year old. It stopped. In the interim, we did everything we could to keep them out of the car. We usually took the bus or train places (it Did Us Good, my god we felt it doing us good ;-) ). Also, when they were out of the car I consciously did not put the baby in a pram if I could avoid it, but carried them in a sling. However, at the end of the day, needs must. It totally isn't CIO, CIO to my mind is more a mindset, its more about deciding that you will not meet your baby's needs which is very different to accepting that, for now, you have competing needs between your kids and your job is to work out which one's needs are more pressing (hey, welcome to having 2 kids!). 

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Parenting
Mothering › Mothering Forums › Mom › Parenting › CIO in the car and I HATE IT!!!