stopping Fenugreek

[cww]

I've been on Fenugreek for months, since our daughter had a posterior tongue tie that didn't get diagnosed and clipped until 3 months, and she was having trouble with weight gain before that.  Now she is gaining well (1kg from 4m to 5m visit!), but she isn't sucking totally correctly, since nursing still hurts and my nipple always comes out pinched and white (but the pain is much much much better than pre-clip).  In addition, my left breast produces a lot of milk w/fast flow, while the right is more sluggish, so she often fusses at the right breast and wants to nurse just on the left (so she is pretty picky about the flow rate). 

However, the bad e coli epidemic in Europe this summer has been traced back to infected organic Fenugreek seeds from Egypt.  I called the manufacturer of the organic Fenugreek seeds I've been taking, and they were very rude and unhelpful and would only tell me that the seeds they use come from the Mediterranean (of which Egypt is obviously a part), so I no longer feel comfortable taking them.  (They assured me that they "test for everything," but all the reputable news sources on this outbreak have said that e coli tests on seeds are unreliable, and that this particular deadly strain is not tested for in the US, since it has been rare up until now.  It may be that even if the seeds are infected with e coli, it may not matter if you just take the seeds and don't sprout them, but I can't find any reliable information on this, and given the very deadly nature of this e coli strain, I'm just not willing to take these chances. Ug!)

So, long story short, I have stopped the Fenugreek, and my supply has dropped.  (I should note that I am currently in Switzerland for the summer, where they don't sell any pills that can increase supply - so this limits my options.)  I had some goat's rue with me, which I started taking as soon as I stopped the Fenugreek, but it doesn't seem to have made any difference.  My sister is bringing me some blessed thistle from the US on Wed when she comes to visit.  However, in the meantime, our daughter is getting increasingly fussy on both breasts, and I'm worried about how this will affect our nursing. 

I have been drinking plenty of water, eating oats, and nursing her frequently, and also trying to feed her before she really shows hunger signs, since then she is more relaxed and likely to drink even from the slow flow breast.  I haven't tried pumping after feeds yet, but am worried that if I do that that it will only increase my supply short term (that's what happened before, but maybe that was just b/c with the tongue tie she couldn't get the milk out very well?).  I think my supply was probably never low - I think I actually produce enough milk; rather, I think the problem is the flow rate of my milk - without the Fenugreek, the flow slows down to a more

"normal" rate, and since my daughter has had such feeding troubles, she gets frustrated unless the flow is really fast. 

I was hoping some of you might have advice or BTDT?  (I'm kind of hoping that she will just relax after a day or so and get used to the new flow, and stop fussing at the breast, but I'm worried that instead everything could just spiral into a nursing nightmare with her screaming at the breast again with greater and greater frequency, which she did before the tongue tie was fixed, and which she did a few times in the middle of the night last night...)

Thanks for taking the time to read my post!

[Snapdragon]

wow- this is the first I have hread that about fenugreek- so what might happen from taking it? I have been taking it off and on recently- was thinking of starting up again but your post makes me want to be sure it is safe.  Has anyone else heard about this?

[lilikoi]

How about taking domperidone? I know you can't get it locally but you can get it shipped. My DD had a posterior TT clipped at 4 and 1/2 months. My supply was super low even after we got it clipped. I tried fenugreek and blessed thistle and didn't see an increase. Donmperidone was the only thing that helped.

[cww]

Sorry for the delay in reply - I haven't been checking messages this last week-ish. 

Snapdragon, Fenugreek seeds may be fine, but sprouts grown from contaminated organic fenugreek seeds (sourced from an organic farm in Egypt) were the source of a very deadly e coli outbreak in Germany (and a smaller one in France) in May and June - a very nasty strain that combines the worst traits of a couple of different bacteria strains so that it had abnormally high rates of death and complications in healthy adults.  I tried asking around to find out if the seeds were ok (either because they definitely didn't come from the contaminated farm, or because there is a scientific reason why the seeds would only be dangerous if sprouted), but because I could not get answers (either from the company or from doctors), I didn't feel comfortable continuing with them.  If you are taking a nonorganic brand, then presumably they would be safe (because they would not have come from this particular farm where the contamination occurred unless the company bought organic seeds and then just failed to market them as such?).  Or, if you can call the company and they can tell you where their seeds come from, then you could find out for sure if they are fine.  

To update my situation, my supply did come back up after several days of it being lower again, perhaps b/c we nursed a lot on both sides repeatedly, or perhaps because the goat's rue took longer to get the supply up than going off the fenugreek took to lower the supply.  

Thanks for taking the time to reply to my post.