Decathalon + ? in a Protege with 2 kids, 3 adults

[UrbanMamma]

We are a one car family with a 2000 Mazda Protege.  Current setup is a FF Britax Decathalon in the middle seat for our 3.5 year old of average size.   We just found out that we have another one on the way (other kid will be 4 and 4 months) and are thinking through our options.

The biggest concern is that we actually do not use the car for daily things at all.  90% of the time when we are using the car, it is because we are picking our parents up from the airport or showing someone around town.  So, a high priority is to be able to fit 3 adults and have the two kids in the Protege. 

Due to our almost car-free lifestyle, I'm not keen on buying multiple seats;  I brought the 3.5 year old from the hospital in the Decathalon as an 8lb newborn with no issue (and then didn't put him in the car again until he was 10 lbs) and have a hard time seeing a bucket seat in our future.

So what do I get?

[Maedze]

Good morning :-)

You're probably not going to like my answer, but I'm seeing a couple of big issues that are going to conflict with you not wanting to buy multiple seats. 

1.  It's very unlikely that your 8 pound newborn fit safely or legally in the Decathalon.  Britax requires that for the seat to be used, the bottom most harness slots must be at, or below, the newborns shoulders.  As the bottom-most slots are 10.5" from the seat, outside of very enormous newborns, most babies don't fit safely in original Britax convertibles until somewhere between 4 and 9 months.   So this seat is not an appropriate choice for a newborn or young infant.  Furthermore, it's likely going to expire well before your youngest is anywhere near old to forward face (remember, two year minimum for forward facing, preferably 3 or 4 years.)

2.  Does your Protege have a lap shoulder belt in the center position?  If it does, disregard this point. LOL.  If not, that means it has a lap-only belt, which is ONLY safe for installing child restraints and should never be used for an adult or boostered passenger.   This means that you'll need to put two child restraints NEXT to each other, leaving room on the side for your third adult.   Britax convertibles are usually not the best choice for tight three-across situations. 

3.  For the 4 year old, you're going to need a relatively narrow forward facing harnessed seat.   You don't mention how much your older child weighs, but the Evenflo Maestro *might* work.  It has an upper weight limit of 50 lbs.  However, it's not that narrow.  Your best bet is a Sunshine Kids' Radian.  Unfortunately, this is quite a price jump. 

4.  For the baby, you've got a couple of options.  If you want to skip the infant bucket, you basically need a very small convertible that will fit will right next to another seat.  Rear facing and forward facing Radians puzzle well.  You could probably put the four year old in a Radian outboard, and the newborn in the Radian in the middle, and use the rear facing tether to ensure a proper 45 degree angle if it doesn't happen naturally.

You could also look at the Combi Coccorro, which is great for tight places.  It'll last you rear facing about 18 months-2 years, but not much longer.  You'll eventually need another convertible to keep your child rear facing longer.

 You could also consider a narrow but long lasting infant bucket, like the Safety First On Board Air 35 (which will last most kids around 18 months or even more), or the Chicco Keyfit 30, which will last most kids between 9 and 15 months.  

5.   Friendly reminder...don't forget to top-tether your forward facing seat (either the Decathalon or whatever you end up replacing it with) !!

[UrbanMamma]

Thanks.  Some of the points are right on, others not so much.  You've given me something to think about; I offer more info just to keep the discussion relevant and make sure other people in a similar situation have solid info.

1.  I realize the Decathalon is not the most appropriate choice for a newborn, but as someone who didn't even have a car in town at the time, I wanted sufficent.  The Decathalon has the first slot at 10" from the seat.  The 3.5 year old was 8.5 lbs and just shy of 22 inches at birth (90th percentile).  Our only driving for the first month was to peds apts less than 2 miles away 3 times.   By his first appt, he was 10 lbs and 23 inches.  I'm ok with knowing that a big newborn was in that seat for less than 8 miles for his first month of his life on 25-miles-per-hour city streets.  I know that is not everyone's situation, but it was ours.  Our current situation is similar (our daily commute to preschool is by bus; our grocery store is 5 blocks away) except we aren't borrowing cars this time.

Lest you think I was totally irresponsible, last time I did have a pregnant friend's bucket on the other side of town lined up for a few months just in case but decided not to go with it (remember, didn't have a car to go traipsing across town) when we saw the size of our newborn.  I suppose I could have a similar backup plan if I have a small baby this time through.

2.  Lap-shoulder belts in all 5 seats in the Protege.  But I hear you that Britax convertibles aren't the best for tight spaces.

3.  The 3 year old weights about 36 or 37 lbs right now 8.5 months out from baby's arrival.  He has been 50th percentile in weight and height since 2.  I'm willing to consider an expensive harnessed booster IF that is the last seat I buy for him.  What I don't want to do is spend money on and send to the landfill multiple seats over the next 4-5 years he heeds to be in something.

4.  This is what I'm looking for - what puzzles well.  Thank you for the suggestions.  I don't even remember the Combi Coccorrro being an option when I was last shopping for seats. 

5.  The current seat is tethered FF.  The 2000 Protege has tether connections for all 3 backseat spots even if it doesn't have a base latch system.

Again, thanks for the thoughts.  Anyone else with any creative solutions, I'm up for thinking them through.

[Maedze]

Ok, the further information helps.  I understand why you made the decision you did, even though I will still advise against it, as it doesn't meet the legal minimal requirements for use.   (Also, keep in mind, that for a more average-heighted baby (19-20") the harness will actually be so over the shoulders that you won't even be able to get a snug or safe fit, never mind the legality of it.)  I would not *plan* on the Decathalon being your infant's seat, simply because the likelihood of an unsafe fit is so very high.  

Good to know about lap-shoulders three across.  I'm going to through another irritating detail in the mix.  How about head rests?  Adult passengers need to have adjustable vehicle support to at least the tops of your ears.  If your middle position doesn't have a head rest and your outboard does, the adult passenger still needs to be outboard.  

Do you happen to know what the expiration date on your Decathalon is?   If it's going to expire in the next twelve seconds, that's one thing, but if you have a few years of life on it, that's quite another.    

Unfortunately, I think whatever you buy at this juncture, you're eventually going to replace it one way or the other.  The two seats that are most likely to fit next to another seat (the Maestro and the Radian) will both be outgrown around 6 years of age.  They'll eventually need to be replaced with a dedicated booster.  

If you 'stagger' your seats, you could reduce the environmental impact.  For example, leave your 4 year old forward facing in the Decathalon outboard, and, if it fits, put your newborn rear facing in a Radian in the middle position.  If you have two more years before expiration in the Decathalon, you might very well get to booster age in that seat, and then only have to buy a dedicated booster.   

[UrbanMamma]

Yeah, I know.  Not everyone has such a car-free lifestyle.  Nor does everyone come from a family where all 12 babies from my mom and sisters arrived in the tall and skinny 8.5-10 lb range, grow like gang-busters for 6 months and then spend the next 6 months falling into low-average percentiles for the rest of their lives.  It drives doctors crazy too.

None of the back seats in a 2000 Protege have head rests... so an adult in the back seat is equally unsafe in all positions.  Again, not ideal, but hard to justify a new car when we put far less than 1,000 miles on our car a year.

I know it is impossible to get to 8+ years in one seat.  I made sure I bought a newly manufactured Decathalon with my first.  We have until the fall of 2013 (without getting the seat out, I'm relying on memory that it was Sept or Oct) before it expires.  My plan back then was to keep our first child in it until it expired and then go to a booster from approximately 6-8; this seemed like a reasonable plan with a 65 lb rated seat.  

And I know whatever I buy at this juncture for the baby will have to be replaced at least once too.  But, it would still be nice to minimize seats for the next handful of years.

[Maedze]

Yes, I think your plan makes sense, with a couple of notes:  although the Decathalon is rate to 65 pounds, it's not going to last you to 65 lbs.  The other limiting factor is the topmost harness position, which is just shy of 17" from base.  Most kids outgrow this seat by height between 5 and 6 years old.  And that's just fine, because most kids are booster ready at that point.  

Another factor:  kids need a booster well past 8 years of age.   Kids need to be boostered until they are around 4'9" and pass the 5 step test.  A 50th percentile ELEVEN year old is 4'9".  A child would have to literally be off the charts tall to make it to 4'9" by the 8th birthday.  So whatever booster you end up with in two or three years is probably going to be used for the next 5-6 years.  

Also to keep in mind, because you don't have head rests in the rear seat (presuming of course you don't replace the vehicle with a newer model that has head rests), you'll need to keep your children in high back boosters to maintain safe head protection.  

Not having to puzzle the seats next to each other, of course, gives you quite a bit more freedom in what you choose.  I would actually suggest (and I don't often because it's usually not necessary, but I think with your vehicle situation and your dedication to the environment it would make sense) a Britax Frontier 85.  It adjusts to the tallest High Back Booster on the market, with a 9 year expiration, so it would really last you until your child is done with seats.  

However, I'm still going to recommend at least borrowing an infant seat for the first few months of life.  Why?  Because babies need to be at the full 45 degrees of recline.  If you try to do that in the Decathalon, whoever the poor adult in the front passenger seat is, their knees are going to be up around their ears and they'll be eating the dashboard    So...borrow an infant seat for the first few months (or alternatively, purchase a Coccorro).  When the baby can tolerate an upright installation, you could switch back to the Decathalon at that juncture.  Then, when the seat expires, replace it with a newer, bigger convertible to allow continued rear facing.  

Do you think that would meet your needs?  

[UrbanMamma]

Thanks for thinking this through with me.  I feel like I have a better grasp of what is on the market and what might work in my situation.