My overtired 3 year old

[hennaLisa]

My son turned 3 in April and he has never been a great sleeper. He is overtired all day - fussy, crying at the slightest thing, etc. The other kids he spends the day with do things to upset him because they know it will set him off. He'll cry because someone bumped him or because they have a car he wants, and then he'll cry even more because his eyes are wet!

We do bedtime routine with him, and then we can easily spend 2 hours laying with him in bed and he won't hold still, be quiet, and go to sleep. He rarely takes a nap during the day, even though all the other kids lay down and go to sleep. Sometimes, his caretaker will stand and carry him to sleep, which will work on ocassion.

Once in a while he'll crash and get more sleep, which makes him into an entirely more likable person!

My husband and I feel trapped and angry with him over this issue because he keeps us from getting the sleep we desperately need. We need a change. Any suggestions?

[D_McG]

poor little boy!  

what time is wakeup?  I'd want to start bedtime 12.5 hours before that.  My non napping almost 3 yo goes to bed at 6:15.

Have you read sleepless in america?

[hennaLisa]

He generally wakes up between 6am and 8am. Last night, he was acting tired (even though he did take an hour long nap) so we started bedtime routine at 8pm. At 10:30, my husband and I were still trying to get him to lay still and quiet in the bed.

For a while, we had a decent routine going where he was taking a 2 hour nap and sleeping from about 9pm or 10pm until about 7am or 8am. I think 12 hours in a 24 hour period would be good for him. But lately, he is going to sleep later and waking up earlier and not taking a nap at least half the time. Part of the reason for these changes is that we have a new daytime caretaker and a new baby. The change of daytime caretaker is affecting his naps, and the new baby is affecting his wake-up time because she makes some noises in the morning that wake him up. I wish we could get him to be more independent with sleeping, so he could go to sleep in his cot for a nap, and go to sleep in our bed with us laying there, but he just won't hold still.

The book sounds good, but I don't have any time to read adult books! I barely manage to make time to read kid's books to my son!

[crunchy_mommy]

I'm not much help because my DS is a horrible sleeper but one thing I do notice, is that trying to make him 'lay still' makes the whole process take MUCH longer. He actually needs to move around like crazy to settle himself down. Counter-intuitive, I know, but just something I thought I'd mention in case you hadn't tried it!

Also, do you have white noise? Might help drown out the baby's noises a bit??

[hennaLisa]

Neat ideas Crunchy Mommy! We do have white noise for nap time, but not in our bedroom. Maybe we should.

I've never seen him wiggle himself to sleep! I'd love it if it would work though. He often falls asleep if we take a car ride in the evening. I think being strapped in helps him to give up and go to sleep. He'll talk and sing and try to keep himself awake, but it's hard when he can't move around. I wish I could strap him down in the bed, but even more I wish he had some self control.

We've recently (in the last few weeks) tried offering rewards for being still and quiet and going to sleep. All the other kids he spends time with can do this, but he just doesn't seem willing. He wants the reward, but he doesn't want to make the effort to get it. We don't really like the idea of rewards in general, but we're just so desperate, we're basically willing to try anything.

[D_McG]

can your DH do bedtime while you read the book? it's worth the investment!when mine wouldn't settle down I would leave in short increments.  my girl especially.  if someone is lying with her she'll stay awake and I just can't lie there.  So I'd leave, 5 minutes at a time. And she did cry (tantrum) but she was old enough to understand I was just outside (18 months or so?) and I'd come back in and check on her.  I had to reassure myself that I knew better than her what she needed.  She was just picking up on my anxiety or something (knowing I was wasting my night away, not spending enough time with my husband AND contributing to an overtired child the following day!).

My son has a different temperment and with him, easing out of the room worked best.  So, sitting in the chair, sitting outside the door etc.  

At 3 I would think you have quite a few options.  They are old enough to know you're just outside so that helps I find.  By the time DS was 3.5/4 we could leave in 10 minute increments and restart the imaginary timer if he came out before 10 minutes.  Then 20 minutes etc.  That got him to just stay and lie still.

Now (5 and 2) both kids go to sleep alone with no drama.  But I definitely had to work at it, try different approaches and pull the 'I know best' card.  

[crunchy_mommy]

Originally Posted by hennaLisa 

I've never seen him wiggle himself to sleep! I'd love it if it would work though. He often falls asleep if we take a car ride in the evening. I think being strapped in helps him to give up and go to sleep. He'll talk and sing and try to keep himself awake, but it's hard when he can't move around. I wish I could strap him down in the bed, but even more I wish he had some self control.

Yeah, DS flip-flops back & forth on this (no pun intended!) and sometimes needs to be stilled to sleep, we can't always let him move around because some days it riles him up more. One thing DH does with him when he's like that is "bundle rides" -- he wraps him in a blanket, basically the way you'd swaddle an infant. Then he walks around with him (usually starts with going outside for a couple minutes, then he walks around in the house). That seems to help and then he can bring him to the bed & he'll often stay still enough to sleep (he used to sometimes fall asleep while being carried around). Some days he needs the stimulation of going outside and then looking around inside & the movement of DH etc. in order to be calm enough to stay still, if that makes sense??

[GuildJenn]

I second Sleepless in America. But some quick points that helped our son at that age:

1. Have a consistent wake up time and get outside into sun/air within an hour of that. A half hour walk/run in the morning helped a lot. Plenty of exercise in the day helped too.

2. Have consistent mealtimes - I know for sure that came from that book and with our kid, within 5 days the difference in falling asleep was. amazing. Between the consistent wake up and eating, I think his body clock started to set properly.

3. I did the timer thing although I called it "going to the bathroom." But yes, I think at that age it helps to start to remove the social aspect of falling asleep. I thought of it as a division of responsibility. I made sure he had support in staying in bed. But it was his job to figure out how to go to sleep. This did take a couple of weeks and there were some tears (no yelling; we never cut off access to a parent: We were just firm. It's bedtime; you need to stay in your bed. And after that, no talking, just gently returning to bed.), but at 3 he was well able to handle the frustration.

4. Consistent "rest hour." My son wasn't a great napper (although he did at school...peer pressure) but we had the same quiet time each day.

Good luck :)

[crunchy_mommy]

Another thing we often do is just roll over and read a book (or go to sleep) and kind of ignore him. I mean, obviously we're not really ignoring him, he's touching me the whole time, but I interact with him as minimally as possible. Sometimes our efforts to get him to sleep just make it worse, and we have to completely disengage. We are right there beside him and I warn him first: "OK I'm going to read now, it's bed time. I love you and I'm right here if you really need me but I'm not going to talk anymore. Good night!!" (big hug & kiss) -- something like that.

(Sorry, I'm sure you've already tried many of these things, just throwing out ideas in case I touch on something you haven't thought of! For us, it's ever-changing, and we have to figure out each day what will work best for that night only, and usually have to change it up the very next day.)

[mamaprovides]

Your son reminds me of my daughter. She flops and flops and flops and just can't settle down. We do chamomile in either tea or homeopathic and that really helps. I strongly suggest homeopathics. When my kids have a hard time winding homeopathics make a world of difference...

I second quiet time. My son has quiet time. It really helps him pull it together even if he doesn't sleep.

[Thing1Thing2]

DS has almost the same problem with sleep. I heard on here that getting him outside at 8am for 15 minutes of sun helps set their internal clock.

I also started getting him down for his nap by 12 and down for bed by 9 every night. When the schedule gets thrown off - the sleep problems start again.

My son is similar to Crunchy Mommys - but after I became pregnant with my second, I couldn't handle the flipping and flopping and decided to give him some alone time. I told him I was going to take a shower and that he should stay on his pillow.

I left him with his favorite trains in the room and stood outside the door and !surprise! he fell asleep on his own. I think I was the one distracting him.

I guess for every child it's different, but I am still totally in shock that I "step out" and he's out within minutes. If I stay in, he's flipping and flopping for hours.

 hope you get to the bottom of whatever is causing the problem.