She got in to the gifted program and some questions

[Miss Information]

We finally got confirmation that oldest dd (9) got into the 4th grade gifted program in her public school.  I went to the parent informational meeting last week and was very surprised and excited at how they will be learning. 

It a self-contained gifted class and the entire focus is on higher order thinking skills and interdisciplinary approach to teaching.  If they are studying constellations, they will study myths and legends, research a constellation and write an essay, present a play about constellations, and teach other students about constellations using a digital planetarium. 

They will compact a lot of the basics in order for them to get to the good stuff.

Their reading revolves around novels and they will get a chance to do some comparative analysis (for instance, comparing and contrasting two books from the same genre).  They will have writing projects and speaking projects.

They will have a fifth grade math book, and they will use Hands-On Equations to teach algebra skills.

For science, they will be doing a science project, and if they get their act together, a design project too.  They will also be changing the diet of twin mice babies and monitoring their growth rates. 

I was really pleased to hear that they monitor the children's progress, so that if they see that one or a couple of students needs more challenge in math, they'll allow those students to accelerate and if any child is struggling with the challenges, they'd give them some extra assistance. 

They don't load up on the homework and a lot of times, they have less than the regular classes.

I am excited and nervous, but one nice thing about the informational meeting is that there are a few other parents with concerns for their child.  Like one mom said, "but my child keeps saying I only BARELY got in" and they reassured her that it would be all right and that in the 20 years they had the program, only about 5 didn't make it through successfully.

This made me wonder...what is your child's gifted program like?   Are you happy with it?  What are its strengths and weaknesses?

Edited by Miss Information - 7/13/11 at 8:17am

[ollyoxenfree]

It sounds like an exciting program. 

However, I wonder about this: 

Originally Posted by Miss Information 

I am excited and nervous, but one nice thing about the informational meeting is that there are a few other parents with concerns for their child.  Like one mom said, "but my child keeps saying I only BARELY got in" and they reassured her that it would be all right and that in the 20 years they had the program, only about 5 didn't make it through successfully.

How on earth does a 9 y.o. know what the criteria for admission are and how she measured up against them? I can't imagine having that kind of discussion with my kids and putting that kind of pressure on them. I would be a little concerned about the attitudes that exchange suggests are present in the parent group. Maybe I have the wrong impression, I hope so. 

The strengths of the gifted program that my kids have attended: 

- teachers and administrators who understood their needs and were willing to program for them

- engaging curriculum with differentiation 

- lots of project-based learning 

- lots of learning opportunities (guest speakers, field trips, special events...) 

- peer group - this is the biggest benefit - finding a group of students who inspire and motivate and who tolerate and even encourage differences

- once admitted, there was no further testing to continue in the program - if you were admitted, you couldn't be asked to leave, unless there were behaviour problems (the kind any student would be suspended or expelled for) 

The weaknesses

- travel distance - not just to school and back everyday, but the program drew students from a large area, so out-of-school group projects and social gatherings involved lots of driving. It got better when they could take public transit on their own.

- the program was hosted in a "regular" school and there was some rivalry, jealousy and a lot of scrutiny from the parents about use of school resources (which the principal was careful to ensure were divided equally between the 2 programs). It got nasty at one point.   

[whatsnextmom]

Congrats to your DD and I hope this program works out well for her!

Personally, gifted programming has been hit or miss. My eldest didn't have a program until 5th grade (but her school did a great job accomodating her with grade and subject acceleration, differentiation and compacted curriculum.) Her 5th grade class involved a GATE cluster. This placed all the GATE kids in a class but it wasn't exclusively gifted. It was a great year academically but socially, it was a nightmare. It just so happened that at DD's school, the GATE program was mostly rebellious boys and the wasted time and constant friction drove her to distraction. She'd have been better off with the high-achiever class where the kids worked independantly, were focused and rarely had behavioral issues. In middle school, she had daily GATE social studies and then all the accelerated courses along with a math and science subject acceleration. Again, it was still the same GATE kids and so her GATE class was her least favorite. The only reason we didn't pull her out was that she LOVED the teacher and they continue to have this really strong bond. She's in high school now and in a highly gifted program within an performing arts magnet (totally new group of kids.) She likes the HG students but for some reason, all the 9th grade accelerated classes got student teachers this year and it was sort of a mess. I'm assured that won't be the case Sophmore year. We shall see. It's likely she will transfer to the middle college campus for 11th grade and that means she'll take her courses at the community college.

Now, my DS has LOVED his GATE program. He was in a tri-lingual immersion school. The whole class was about 6 months to 1 year advanced in the curriculum (except for writing.. I feel they were below average in this area.) He was pulled out 2 times a week for GATE. The GATE program was producing, writing, filming and editing the school news program.They learned all about audio/video including using green screen technology. He's just a wiz with computer editing. They made the school commercials for special events and movie shorts. He just adored it and it got him out of repetitive work in class and connected him with gifted kids from 2nd to 5th grade as it was multi-aged.

None of the programs have "fixed" all the school issues alone. For DD, her level of giftedness coupled with her drive tends to make regular gifted classes not enough of a challenge. She needs further and personal accomodation. For DS, he has no real interest in accelerating to unusual levels. He just doesn't want to redo a bunch of stuff he already knew. All have had their positives including higher quality teachers.

[Miss Information]

Originally Posted by ollyoxenfree 

It sounds like an exciting program. 

However, I wonder about this: 

How on earth does a 9 y.o. know what the criteria for admission are and how she measured up against them? I can't imagine having that kind of discussion with my kids and putting that kind of pressure on them. I would be a little concerned about the attitudes that exchange suggests are present in the parent group. Maybe I have the wrong impression, I hope so. 

The strengths of the gifted program that my kids have attended: 

- teachers and administrators who understood their needs and were willing to program for them

- engaging curriculum with differentiation 

- lots of project-based learning 

- lots of learning opportunities (guest speakers, field trips, special events...) 

- peer group - this is the biggest benefit - finding a group of students who inspire and motivate and who tolerate and even encourage differences

- once admitted, there was no further testing to continue in the program - if you were admitted, you couldn't be asked to leave, unless there were behaviour problems (the kind any student would be suspended or expelled for) 

The weaknesses

- travel distance - not just to school and back everyday, but the program drew students from a large area, so out-of-school group projects and social gatherings involved lots of driving. It got better when they could take public transit on their own.

- the program was hosted in a "regular" school and there was some rivalry, jealousy and a lot of scrutiny from the parents about use of school resources (which the principal was careful to ensure were divided equally between the 2 programs). It got nasty at one point.   

I didn't realize it was a bad idea for a child to know his own scores.  When I was a child, I ALWAYS wanted to know.  My daughter wanted to know when the letter came.  She wanted to see the letter, which had the scores and the criteria right on it.  The way I feel about it is that it's HER information, she's the one who did the work and ought to know how she did.  It didn't really occur to me to keep it from her. 

The way they handled it was talking about "imposter syndrome" and what that meant, and that adults have it too, so it was a 'normal' response.  They told the parent to reassure that her child will be all right and that if she would struggle, they would give her assistance. 

Actually, knowing that helped reassure me and other parents too.  Apparently there were a few parents with anxiety for their children and how they would do in the program.

Thanks for the pros and cons of the experience your children have had...that gives me some good areas to think about.

On the peer group aspect of things...one thing I liked about what they said was the pool of gifted students (students from 2 schools actually) were a diverse group and they understood that not all gifted children were created equal.  They acknowledge that each child has different strengths and weaknesses but wanted ALL the children to succeed, so they would do what is necessary for each child.  It seems to me that they really care about the kids as individuals.

I have never (yet) heard of any rivalry with the kids.  I hope it's not too bad.  I know of the 12 or so students that got in from her school (and about the same from the other school), 120 kids in her grade did NOT get in.  Not much ruffles dd's feathers though.  She tends to befriend all kinds of kids, and I think she might be all right.  Everyone pretty much knows that she was the kid that read all the Harry Potter books by the middle of third grade and passed the AR tests on it.  But she's also the only girl that the boys would let into their basketball games at recess too. No one has ever been nasty to her yet.  But if there is any stigmatizing, we'll deal with that.

[Miss Information]

Originally Posted by whatsnextmom 

Congrats to your DD and I hope this program works out well for her!

Personally, gifted programming has been hit or miss. My eldest didn't have a program until 5th grade (but her school did a great job accomodating her with grade and subject acceleration, differentiation and compacted curriculum.) Her 5th grade class involved a GATE cluster. This placed all the GATE kids in a class but it wasn't exclusively gifted. It was a great year academically but socially, it was a nightmare. It just so happened that at DD's school, the GATE program was mostly rebellious boys and the wasted time and constant friction drove her to distraction. She'd have been better off with the high-achiever class where the kids worked independantly, were focused and rarely had behavioral issues. In middle school, she had daily GATE social studies and then all the accelerated courses along with a math and science subject acceleration. Again, it was still the same GATE kids and so her GATE class was her least favorite. The only reason we didn't pull her out was that she LOVED the teacher and they continue to have this really strong bond. She's in high school now and in a highly gifted program within an performing arts magnet (totally new group of kids.) She likes the HG students but for some reason, all the 9th grade accelerated classes got student teachers this year and it was sort of a mess. I'm assured that won't be the case Sophmore year. We shall see. It's likely she will transfer to the middle college campus for 11th grade and that means she'll take her courses at the community college.

Now, my DS has LOVED his GATE program. He was in a tri-lingual immersion school. The whole class was about 6 months to 1 year advanced in the curriculum (except for writing.. I feel they were below average in this area.) He was pulled out 2 times a week for GATE. The GATE program was producing, writing, filming and editing the school news program.They learned all about audio/video including using green screen technology. He's just a wiz with computer editing. They made the school commercials for special events and movie shorts. He just adored it and it got him out of repetitive work in class and connected him with gifted kids from 2nd to 5th grade as it was multi-aged.

None of the programs have "fixed" all the school issues alone. For DD, her level of giftedness coupled with her drive tends to make regular gifted classes not enough of a challenge. She needs further and personal accomodation. For DS, he has no real interest in accelerating to unusual levels. He just doesn't want to redo a bunch of stuff he already knew. All have had their positives including higher quality teachers.

Thank you.

Your DS' experience seems to have been really neat.  I'm glad he got a chance to do something he loved and thrived in.  What languages was he learning? 

I'm sorry about your daughter's experience with her peers was less than adequate.  But I do agree the bond with the teacher is SO SO much more important than that with the peers.  I have so many fond memories of my teachers who guided me and respected me in ways that my peers did not.    She'll more than likely remember most of the good that she got with her teachers who are more like mentors than any students who may or may not influence her. 

Wow, I don't like the idea of having student teachers.  I never liked student TA's teaching classes at the college level.  I was fortunate that I never had any in my major, but I'd heard student TAs in the engineering department.  

So if she's in a highly gifted program within a Performing Arts magnet, what is her curriculum like (just terribly curious).

[ollyoxenfree]

Originally Posted by Miss Information 

I didn't realize it was a bad idea for a child to know his own scores.  When I was a child, I ALWAYS wanted to know.  My daughter wanted to know when the letter came.  She wanted to see the letter, which had the scores and the criteria right on it.  The way I feel about it is that it's HER information, she's the one who did the work and ought to know how she did.  It didn't really occur to me to keep it from her. 

I don't think it's necessarily a bad idea for a child to know his/her own scores or have an understanding about how they acquire and process information, which is the underlying information obtained from the scores. 

I don't think a child needs to know the criteria for admission to the gifted program. I'm not sure why they would need that information or what good would come from having it. I can see potential harm though. As you described, a child may wonder if they really measure up. Some children could get competitive and compare scores with each other using the admission criteria as a benchmark. A child who missed the criteria by a little bit could be haunted by wondering what they could have done differently. I was also wondering if there was parental pressure on the kids to get into the program that was reflected in parents (not you) saying things like "you need to get a 98th percentile or you won't get in" or "he failed the gifted testing" to their kids.  

Scores and admission criteria don't tell the whole story, so I get a little antsy when I hear about people focusing on them. Some of those students who struggled in the program probably had very high scores, but had other issues related to personality, behaviour, social skills, and 2E learning difficulties that interfered with their achievements. Even adults can have trouble understanding that, so I don't expect children to be aware of these issues. 

I understand though, if both sets of information - scores and criteria - were on the same document and the child saw it. Don't mind my sensitivities. 

Regarding the rivalry - it was mostly the parents, not between the kids and it wouldn't be an issue if the program is in an entirely separate school. 

[Miss Information]

Originally Posted by ollyoxenfree 

I don't think it's necessarily a bad idea for a child to know his/her own scores or have an understanding about how they acquire and process information, which is the underlying information obtained from the scores. 

I don't think a child needs to know the criteria for admission to the gifted program. I'm not sure why they would need that information or what good would come from having it. I can see potential harm though. As you described, a child may wonder if they really measure up. Some children could get competitive and compare scores with each other using the admission criteria as a benchmark. A child who missed the criteria by a little bit could be haunted by wondering what they could have done differently. I was also wondering if there was parental pressure on the kids to get into the program that was reflected in parents (not you) saying things like "you need to get a 98th percentile or you won't get in" or "he failed the gifted testing" to their kids.  

Scores and admission criteria don't tell the whole story, so I get a little antsy when I hear about people focusing on them. Some of those students who struggled in the program probably had very high scores, but had other issues related to personality, behaviour, social skills, and 2E learning difficulties that interfered with their achievements. Even adults can have trouble understanding that, so I don't expect children to be aware of these issues. 

I understand though, if both sets of information - scores and criteria - were on the same document and the child saw it. Don't mind my sensitivities. 

Regarding the rivalry - it was mostly the parents, not between the kids and it wouldn't be an issue if the program is in an entirely separate school. 

Oh, okay. 

And with regards to my handling of her testing, I always err'd on the side of caution.  I told dd that it didn't really matter to me whether or not she got into the program (and yet, it was a little hard for me to believe it), and if she didn't, that we'd continue to do what she always did, and do things outside of school.  I actually was preparing her (and me actually) for the worst, but hoping for the best. 

I do understand your sensitivities.  I was the type to worry about benchmarks and have been worried about my OWN fears contaminating my children.  It's been a learning experience for me to practice the art of nonchalance about scores.  Mostly because my own self-worth as a child was wrapped up in scores, that I KNOW I need to be careful with what I convey to my daughters.

I know there's some deeply embedded self-esteem issues.  That's one area that this forum has been good for...understanding how our attitudes can be transmitted to our children and the subtle anxieties we carry CAN subconsciously impact our children.  

It's definitely on area I've been aware of and I've been working on as part of my parenting journey. 

[whatsnextmom]

Originally Posted by Miss Information 

Thank you.

Your DS' experience seems to have been really neat.  I'm glad he got a chance to do something he loved and thrived in.  What languages was he learning? 

I'm sorry about your daughter's experience with her peers was less than adequate.  But I do agree the bond with the teacher is SO SO much more important than that with the peers.  I have so many fond memories of my teachers who guided me and respected me in ways that my peers did not.    She'll more than likely remember most of the good that she got with her teachers who are more like mentors than any students who may or may not influence her. 

Wow, I don't like the idea of having student teachers.  I never liked student TA's teaching classes at the college level.  I was fortunate that I never had any in my major, but I'd heard student TAs in the engineering department.  

So if she's in a highly gifted program within a Performing Arts magnet, what is her curriculum like (just terribly curious).

DD's peer experience wasn't terrible in elementary and middle. She's very savy socially and to be honest she was pretty popular and regularly put in leadership positions. She was just irritated with the personalities and wasted time. Her connection to them was always shallow and she didn't shed a tear leaving them behind after 8th grade. We sent her to the arts magnet because we wanted her to have that social connection IN school that she had outside school. I will say, the high school has certainly given her that. Honestly, the HG program isn't a huge deal. Basically, they put all the 99.9th percentile kids in one English class. It's a small class which is nice. However, her permanent teacher didn't really understand gifted kids and the student teacher had no control over the class and honestly, didn't seem that bright herself (once wrote "that's so special" as the only critique on one of DD's papers lol.) However, DD got a lot from discussion and debate with the other HG kids. The rest of her academic classes were achievement based and so while SOME of the HG kids are in all her classes, not all. Freshman year, the performing arts major required she take dance, music theory and musical theatre as part of her major. Next year she'll have HG English again along with her AP's and her arts classes.

DS is now considered fluent and bi-literate in Spanish. That was his full immersion language. Mandarin was his "enrichment" language and he's only conversational and can't read or write in it at all. It's a very tough language and he won't be considered fluent until high school graduation should he continue with it. Still, having the early exposure really gives him a leg up in the tonal properties of it.

[Linda on the move]

I have two gifted kids and they do NOT know their scores. I don't see how it would be helpful to them to compare themselves to each other that way. Because my kids are closely spaced and I know them well, I can see how it would play out.

To me, the feelings that could arise from a whole classroom of gifted children knowing their own scores and talking about them with each other doesn't seem the least bit helpful. The notion that they won't talk about them if they know them seems unrealistic.

I also think that what we tell our children about their intelligence matters. I've told one of my DDs that her IQ is high enough that if she works hard at something, she'll be successful at it. The secret is to figure out what she is passionate about it and delve in. I think knowing the actual numbers could lead to her feeling like she's too smart to bother working, or that if things require work, it means something is wrong.

And cograds to the the OPer on your DD getting into what sounds like a wonderful program!  I hope you have a good year!

[moominmamma]

Only one of my kids was tested, at age 14, and she doesn't know her score. She was told she "comfortably fell into the highly gifted range, for what that's worth <shrug>." If she'd been younger I probably would have said something more like what Linda told her dd ("that her IQ is high enough that if she works hard at something, she'll be successful at it"). We didn't want to give some simplistic snapshot measurement of a human mind any more power over it than it deserves. She hasn't expressed any curiosity about the particulars but if she does at this age (she's now almost an adult) I'd tell her if she wants -- after she reads Stephen Jay Gould's "The Mismeasure of Man." She's a good skeptic, and doesn't put much stock in grades or other measurements. For example she's in her final year of high school and neither she nor I actually know what her GPA is, or how it's calculated -- though we think she probably has a 4.0?

Anyway, I admit I am not a big believer in giving number / rank measurements importance to my kids. I want them to care about their learning, their happiness, their goodness ... not their grades, their "Intelligence," or their "Achievement." 

Miranda

[whatsnextmom]

We just have percentiles for the kids. Since the programs in our county all work on percentiles, we never dug for more. DD was very involved in researching and choosing a highschool. The highschool she wanted had an HG program for 99.9th and since she had been included in the elementary/middle GATE program without scores, she had to request testing so she had scores to give the highschool (and they would ONLY accept scores.)  When she got into the program, she obviously knew she was in that percentile. My youngest knows he qualified for the gifted program but he has never seemed the slightest bit interested in what percentile was needed or what his exact percentile is.

I think it's a mistake not to acknowledge your child's differences and talk to your kids about their abilities when it's clear they need to. I don't think numbers are neccessary. Seems most kids just want to know they aren't freaks... that being a fast learner isn't really all that different from being a fast runner. You are built how you are built.

[ollyoxenfree]

Originally Posted by whatsnextmom 

 DD was very involved in researching and choosing a highschool. The highschool she wanted had an HG program for 99.9th and since she had been included in the elementary/middle GATE program without scores, she had to request testing so she had scores to give the highschool (and they would ONLY accept scores.)  When she got into the program, she obviously knew she was in that percentile. 

This is one of the things that I like about this community. I say (or think) "I can't imagine a situation..." and then someone gives me a good, reasonable example that provides a broader perspective. I'm sure there are other examples too where it's appropriate for students to get the numbers. Thanks for the timely reminder that there are no absolutes  .   

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by ollyoxenfree 

This is one of the things that I like about this community. I say (or think) "I can't imagine a situation..." and then someone gives me a good, reasonable example that provides a broader perspective. I'm sure there are other examples too where it's appropriate for students to get the numbers. Thanks for the timely reminder that there are no absolutes  .   

Agreed. I also think it depends on the age and maturity of the child/teen, and the context for telling them.  I've seen so many adults misunderstand what IQ scores tell us and don't tell us that I wouldn't expect a 4th grader to really get it. But eventually I expect I'll tell my kids -- I don't know when. It may come up at some point. 

I also agree with Whatsnext mom that its very positive to talk about our kids and the obvious difference they notice, and what it means and what it doesn't mean. I'm just not sure that the actually numbers are always needed or helpful for that while our children are still young. At that point, there's the big picture of being in a group that is smarter than most kids. I think that enough to process without adding in how many people in the smart group are higher or lower than one's self.

I haven't read the Mismeasure of Man, but I think I'll see if our library has it.

[Miss Information]

You know, I understand where everyone is coming from.  But rather than stress out about it now (it's already a done deal), I will approach any situation as it might come up.  I had to learn the hard way not to share scores of any kind with other students.  It wasn't out of smugness, but out of amazement (I had a crappy home life and school/grades just gave me the validation I desperately needed).  I wanted to know how other kids did.  It only took a few times to know that it alienated me from them.  We will deal with the fallout of having such information at her hands.   I HAVE instructed her about such comparisons on any ordinary testing and WHY it isn't a good idea to share scores with her friends.  We also talked about the Hermione Granger character and how she was rather smug at times early in the series but how it didn't earn her points with her friends.

I asked her if she remembered what her test scores were (there were three).  She says, "I don't know, where is the paper".  I asked her if she cares what her scores were.  She said, "No".  I asked her if she DID remember, would she share her scores with her friends?  She said, "No."

I asked her, "Why do you think it's a bad idea to share your scores with other kids?"  She said, "because if they got a lower score than I did, they might feel bad, and if they scored higher than me, I'd feel bad."

So, I think we're covered.

I'm kind of against withholding information about my daughters from my daughters.  It's THEIR work, THEIR right to know...IF they ASK.  I don't know.  I believe in individual freedom to choose knowledge over ignorance.  I don't plan on censoring much (we recently talked about banned books and she was surprised her beloved Harry Potter series had been banned) .

Edited by Miss Information - 7/15/11 at 11:41am

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by Miss Information 

But rather than stress out about it now (it's already a done deal), I will approach any situation as it might come up.

I just reviewed my posts in this thread and I think they were a bit rude. I'm sorry. I think they would have been appropriate if a poster had asked if we had shared scores and why or why not, but since you had already shared scores, I think I could have been more sensitive to that.

Our situations are very different. My kids are closely spaced and one is 2E. For *my kids,* sharing scores at a young age wouldn't be as good thing. Obviously, in your situation for your DD, it wasn't a big deal at all.

I think your DD's response to why discussing the scores with her friends is a bad idea shows that she has a lot of maturity and sensitivity to other's feels. So well done -- that's reflects some good parenting on your part.

[Miss Information]

Originally Posted by Linda on the move 

I just reviewed my posts in this thread and I think they were a bit rude. I'm sorry. I think they would have been appropriate if a poster had asked if we had shared scores and why or why not, but since you had already shared scores, I think I could have been more sensitive to that.

Our situations are very different. My kids are closely spaced and one is 2E. For *my kids,* sharing scores at a young age wouldn't be as good thing. Obviously, in your situation for your DD, it wasn't a big deal at all.

I think your DD's response to why discussing the scores with her friends is a bad idea shows that she has a lot of maturity and sensitivity to other's feels. So well done -- that's reflects some good parenting on your part.

Oh, I don't think you should feel you were being rude.  I appreciate the conversation.  It gives me something to think about for the future.  For a moment I considered whether I SHOULD be a little worried about it, which gave me a reason to ask my daughter how she would handle the situation if it came up.  I think that's a great reason TO have brought it up.

My parenting is only as good as how much they actually retain.    And yeah, my oldest has a lot of maturity and sensitivity to others' feelings. 

[ChristaN]

A fully contained classroom sounds like a neat opportunity.  From the #s you post, it sounds like about 10% of the kids in each grade were selected.  Our local area puts about 15% or so of the kids/grade in the GT classes.  For that reason, we've actually found that the GT classes actually weren't the best fit for peers b/c it is such a broad group ranging from kids who are bright but not super able to kids whose ability falls at or above the 99th percentile.  That is a pretty wide range.

Mostly, we've found GT classes to either do the same stuff faster or to be a set up where they ask the kids to figure out how to solve problems rather than just teaching them the way to do it, which I do think is good.  Do they group within the program?  That would be another good thing, IMO.

[MomofSev]

Originally Posted by ChristaN 

A fully contained classroom sounds like a neat opportunity.  From the #s you post, it sounds like about 10% of the kids in each grade were selected.  Our local area puts about 15% or so of the kids/grade in the GT classes.  For that reason, we've actually found that the GT classes actually weren't the best fit for peers b/c it is such a broad group ranging from kids who are bright but not super able to kids whose ability falls at or above the 99th percentile.  That is a pretty wide range.

Mostly, we've found GT classes to either do the same stuff faster or to be a set up where they ask the kids to figure out how to solve problems rather than just teaching them the way to do it, which I do think is good.  Do they group within the program?  That would be another good thing, IMO.

This is a good point and something I didn't think about. I will have to find out more about the gifted programs we are considering and the information about the placement.

[Windmill]

Originally Posted by moominmamma 

Only one of my kids was tested, at age 14, and she doesn't know her score. She was told she "comfortably fell into the highly gifted range, for what that's worth <shrug>." If she'd been younger I probably would have said something more like what Linda told her dd ("that her IQ is high enough that if she works hard at something, she'll be successful at it"). We didn't want to give some simplistic snapshot measurement of a human mind any more power over it than it deserves. She hasn't expressed any curiosity about the particulars but if she does at this age (she's now almost an adult) I'd tell her if she wants -- after she reads Stephen Jay Gould's "The Mismeasure of Man." She's a good skeptic, and doesn't put much stock in grades or other measurements. For example she's in her final year of high school and neither she nor I actually know what her GPA is, or how it's calculated -- though we think she probably has a 4.0?

Anyway, I admit I am not a big believer in giving number / rank measurements importance to my kids. I want them to care about their learning, their happiness, their goodness ... not their grades, their "Intelligence," or their "Achievement." 

Miranda

Speaking as a gifted child who was not told anything about any of my scores, rank or even what giftedness meant, I am resentful of my parents for omitting this information. It is fine to say that you will omit things, however they will always be different and giftedness explains a lot of this difference. I did terribly near the end of high school, i had lost all motivation and was focused on my sport rather than school (also had no proper support at home), and couldn't believe how badly I had done. Then I got a rank for university purposes and it was in the 97th percentile. I had never even realised I could rank so highly without doing much at all.  You say that you want them to care about their happiness and goodness, but often the pain of feeling more deeply than others as gifted people can effect happiness, and scores/gifted understanding, may be necessary for this. I appreciate what you are saying, but to put the word "achievement" in inverted commas as you have, seems degrading of the entire idea. Is achievement not what we all want in the end? As gifted people, surely your kids are striving to learn and stimulate their minds? Achievement in the true sense of the word would likely be their driving factor surely? What i truly believe about gifted young people is that they deserve choices and information.  

[Windmill]

Originally Posted by Miss Information 

We finally got confirmation that oldest dd (9) got into the 4th grade gifted program in her public school.  I went to the parent informational meeting last week and was very surprised and excited at how they will be learning. 

 I didn't mean to post twice, my apologies!

I think the program sounds great! There is a high school in my area that is an independent public school, and the entire school is gifted and talented education. It is amazing and I am glad my children will get the chance to go there.