She got in to the gifted program and some questions - Page 2

[moominmamma]

Originally Posted by Windmill 

You say that you want them to care about their happiness and goodness, but often the pain of feeling more deeply than others as gifted people can effect happiness, and scores/gifted understanding, may be necessary for this. I appreciate what you are saying, but to put the word "achievement" in inverted commas as you have, seems degrading of the entire idea. Is achievement not what we all want in the end? As gifted people, surely your kids are striving to learn and stimulate their minds? Achievement in the true sense of the word would likely be their driving factor surely? What i truly believe about gifted young people is that they deserve choices and information.  

By putting achievement in quotes I meant the sort of thing that superficially passes for achievement in high school -- good grades, class rank, recognition via awards. My dd is a very high achiever and I'm proud of her for that and she knows it. But the achievements that matter to both of us are only sometimes the things that are measured. Her report card arrived while she was away for the summer and she only asked me about her English mark. She knows how much work she put into her various courses and she has a feel for how much she learned through that work. She took a horrid required Canadian history course that was full of busy work and devoid of much learning -- and the A+ she got in it isn't even something she's curious about. Her achievements that I'm most proud of this past year are her violin recital, a short story she wrote and her ability to take on the "life skills" of living independently away from home. She put the most work into those things and they were the most challenging for her, but none of them were measured and graded by anyone. 

My kids are a little unique in that they grew up as unschoolers, meaning learning at home in self-directed ways, free of tests and assignments and others' assessment of their learning. Any school-based learning they did or will do came after they were adolescents and had a pretty clear sense of themselves, had gained the ability to push themselves for excellence, and weren't (IMO) likely to get overly caught up in the pursuit of others' approval of their learning. Because they are constantly charting their own educational paths, we have had many discussions throughout the years about learning differences, about the vast range of abilities, the way their learning needs differ from those served by this resource or that, how much challenge they want, how quickly they wish to progress, whether they are comfortable with their pace of learning, how it might differ if they were in school or took an on-line course, what is driving their motivation for this or that. So the fact that they don't necessarily know their IQs does not mean that they don't have an intimate understanding of the ways that their learning differs from mainstream education, that those differences haven't been acknowledged and validated.

You believe that young gifted people deserve choices and information and are resentful that you didn't have any information about your own giftedness. I believe that my kids have far more choice and far more information and understanding of the uniqueness of their learning than 99% of young people. We just don't put much weight on grades and ranks per se. They're not really part of our value system. 

Miranda

Edited by moominmamma - 7/28/11 at 1:39pm

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by Windmill 

You say that you want them to care about their happiness and goodness, but often the pain of feeling more deeply than others as gifted people can effect happiness, and scores/gifted understanding, may be necessary for this. I appreciate what you are saying, but to put the word "achievement" in inverted commas as you have, seems degrading of the entire idea. Is achievement not what we all want in the end?  

I'm not gifted. My DH is, and both our kids are. But me, no. Just the high end of normal.

I don't buy into the idea that gifted people feel more deeply that others. Everyone has feelings. Yours aren't more special or deeper than other people because math is easier for you. That doesn't even make sense. As parents of gifted kids, I think we do them a disservice if we teach them that.

Second, I know a lot of people who've achieved a lot and aren't happy. What I want in the end for my kids is for them to have the power to make real choices in their lives, and to see clearly enough to make choices that will bring them the most joy. I hope they will be people of character, worthy of respect, and that they treat themselves and the people around them well. I wish them balance -- something I see missing in the lives of so many gifted adults I know.

I'm trying to instill in them the idea that just being themselves is enough -- they don't have to do anything or achieve anything to be OK or be loved or any of that. Yet, doing things is wonderful. Learning things, working, contributing, thinking, interacting with others is all wonderful. It's not that they need to achieve something to prove anything, but rather all the stuff that leads up to achievement is deeply satisfying.

Edited by Linda on the move - 7/28/11 at 9:20pm

[moominmamma]

Originally Posted by Linda on the move 

I don't buy into the idea that gifted people feel more deeply that others.

As a gifted person I would agree with this. I think there's an intensity of focus and sensitivity that sometimes goes along with being gifted, but sometimes it goes along with neurotypical abilities (I can think of many friends and acquaintances of whom I would say this is true) and there are plenty of easy-going gifted kids who don't have the intense and brooding personality. My own 8-year-old is resilient, happy-go-lucky and clearly highly gifted. I don't think you can say that gifted people feel more deeply any more than you can say that certain people perceive blue differently than others. We can't know what the internal experience is; we can't say how it ranks against someone else's internal experience.
 

Originally Posted by Linda on the move 
I'm trying to instill in them the idea that just being themselves in enough -- they don't have to do anything or achieve anything to be OK or be loved or any of that. Yet, doing things is wonderful. Learning things, working, contributing, thinking, interacting with others is all wonderful. It's not that they need to achieve something to prove anything, but rather all the stuff that leads up to achievement is deeply satisfying.

This is very well put. Though I do think there is inherent value in certain types of achievements: those that help create a better world, alleviate suffering, create understanding, promote happiness and the freedom of others to be themselves. Successfully organizing a youth environmental summit, or discovering a safer way to give chemotherapy, or helping build a school for street kids in Guatamala, those achievements have inherent merit in my book. Completing a marathon, on the other hand, is a worthy achievement because of the types of things you listed, the things that happen along the way to the achievement: working, learning things, striving, finding enjoyment, problem-solving, focusing, thinking. Most achievements are valuable because of the journey, not the outcome.

Miranda

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by moominmamma 
Completing a marathon, on the other hand, is a worthy achievement because of the types of things you listed, the things that happen along the way to the achievement: working, learning things, striving, finding enjoyment, problem-solving, focusing, thinking. Most achievements are valuable because of the journey, not the outcome.

I don't know. I've seen how when people pursue their passions and live their lives with kindness, they touch others. Even when their passions aren't obviously about helping others.

We aren't runners, but swimmers. One of my kids is 2E, both on the autism spectrum and gifted. One of the people who deeply touched her life was a former Olympic swimmer turned children's swim coach, who was all about personal best. He was this amazing, enlightened human being totally living his dharma, by being passionate about swimming. He is one of the reasons that my DD feels good about herself as a person, in spite of a myriad of struggles.

I think some pursuits are more obviously about helping other people (or the planet), but that no matter what one is drawn to in life, be it sports or music or art or whatever, that if it is infused with kindness, that it has tremendous value.

Edited by Linda on the move - 7/28/11 at 11:04pm

[moominmamma]

As someone who recently ran her first marathon, I think the endeavour -- the training in part, but the long run itself too -- taught me something about compassion, which I think can't help but rub off in the rest of my life. But that's mostly about the journey again, not the achievement. 

Miranda

[Melissa Jousma]

That program sounds wonderful!!!! COngrads, Our public schoo only offers "enrichment" and even that was pulled back on and now doesn't exist at the elementary school level. We dod our own own form of exceleration- early entry to K with an online private school who accepted her based on test score but we havn't pulled the test score out since and now she's going to a brick and morter 1st grade next year (private school)- all they did was have a meeting with her and they  took a look and her reading and handwritting and some  basic math skills and said yeah she should go up. I'm going to be bloggin about this more on my new blog. I'll be trying to walk parents through what we're doign and how she's making out. I would love something like what your daughters in- a self contained giften room- its sounds like their ability grouping!

 any way here's a link to our blog- my son if also gifted in an area but has autism  so i'm following him on here too.  http://cognitively-exceptional.blogspot.com/