How do you decide what path is best? - Page 4

[Dar]

I think the word "need" is imprecise and makes this conversation difficult. I mean, no kid is going to die without preschool. On the other hand, a lot of kids, IMO, benefit greatly from going and really enjoy it a lot. Most of the preschools I've seen haven't been academic hothouses at all, but rather have been nurturing places where kids could go 2 or 3 times a week for a few hours and sing songs and paint and build with blocks and listen to stories and have a good time with their buddies.

[Linda on the move]

That studied lumped together daycare and preschool programs, regardless of quality, and all income levels.

here's a different study:

At age 27, participants in the Perry Preschool project, which targeted very low-income minority youth, were less likely to have been arrested, earned higher salaries on average, and had fewer out-of-wedlock births than non-participants. The researchers concluded that the two-year, half-day program produced $108,000 in benefits to society per child.

It was from this site:

http://www.schoolfunding.info/policy/ece/ece.php3

(which has information about many more studies and decisions)

[Dar]

Originally Posted by kathymuggle 

Bolding mine.  This article seems to disagree with the bolded - it stated that most academic gains associated with preschool had worn off by the higher grades.  It stated a bunch of stuff that was pro preschool as well - it was a pretty balanced article, IMHO.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123249219033099869.html

High quality preschool programs with wrap-around services have been shown to significantly improve outcomes for kids, not in terms of grades but more in terms of reducing drop-out rates and incarceration rates, improving chances that a child will be employed as an adult and reducing the likelihood that he would be on public assistance, and stuff like that. The Perry Preschool program is probably the best known example, and IIRC the project showed that for each dollar spent on preschoolers we saved something like $15 on that child as an adult.

The thing is, there are no Perry Preschools today, or they're really rare - I know there was something similar being tried out in Harlem a few years ago but I haven't heard about it lately. Preschool programs today for at-risk kids, like Head Start, just aren't of the same high-quality and don't include a lot of the additional services (like home visits) that the Perry Preschool did. Which is a shame, really, because the evidence for them is pretty compelling...

[kathymuggle]

I also question (would have to look further) into the studies.

There are many types of poverty.  Painting with very broad strokes - there are 2 types of poverty in my area (and elsewhere I have lived in Canada).

1.  People who are situationally poor.  They may have had bad luck, be young, or made a few poor choices - but their poverty is often temporary.  Many people who are situationally poor have excellent social and academic skills/resources.

2.  People who are generationally poor and at-risk.  There may be compounding factors - like growing up in rough neighbourhoods, poor nutrition choices, smoking, alcoholism/drug use, cycles of fostercare

Group A is very different from group B.  

Group A is also far more likely to be in programs (including headstart type programs) than group B.  Once upon a time I was on welfare in British Columbia. I was definitely type A.  I was in a few programs that targeted young or poor moms - and you know who else was in these programs? Other type A moms.  Heck, one mom had a partner that was getting his Masters.  They were just poor at the time.

On the other hand, type B are very, very difficult to get into any program.  I know. I have seen it.

So...saying preschool helps kids climb out of poverty may be misleading.  It could be programs are filled with type A families and their kids probably would have been fine with or without preschool.  

A study would need to compare type A families with and without preschool or type B families with and without preschool to be valid.  Comparing A to B could give very skewed results.

Edited by kathymuggle - 7/30/11 at 12:11pm

[Dar]

The Perry Preschool project had a control group, and kids were randomly assigned. I used to have the report - it was well-done.

[serenbat]

On the other hand, type B are very, very difficult to get into any program.  I know I have seen it.

I have seen too, low-income people denied as well- since so many use it as babysitting they are starting to base it on child need not income as much in my area and instead push vouchers for babysitting (daycare).

 Preschool programs today for at-risk kids, like Head Start, just aren't of the same high-quality and don't include a lot of the additional services 

very true in my area- your child has to have really needs anymore to get into HS or a state program

it doesn't seem to matter to the OP her issue seems to be different and not related to those issues

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by meetoo 

Preschool is helping those kids, but what they need is to be read to, to hear more words, to be in a safe enviorment, to be cared for, to be fed nutritious food, to be able to explore, etc, etc.

.  Not sure if that makes any sense and it really has nothing to do with the OP. 

It makes perfect sense!

The need is to be read to, spoken to, be safe  etc, etc...

Preschool can be a solution (but it is not a need).  

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by Dar 

The Perry Preschool project had a control group, and kids were randomly assigned. I used to have the report - it was well-done.

I will look at it - this thread is moving quickly atm, so I wrote my last post before reading about the Perry Preschool.

[Cynthia Mosher]

Did the Perry Preschool study also look at homeschooled children who did their "preschool" at home? Would be interesting to know if the same or comparable benefit was found. Or not. 

[meetoo]

Originally Posted by Dar 

The Perry Preschool project had a control group, and kids were randomly assigned. I used to have the report - it was well-done.

It was, but it was a  very specific study. It was done on children living in extremely impoverished conditions. It was a very high quality preschool program, with well trained teachers(sadly that can be hard to find). They also did home visits and offered extra support to the parents,  several meals/snacks,  and if I recall correctly some extra medical and dental care as well. It's not at all comparable to the average parent that sends their child to preschool 2.5 hours a day 2-5x a week  I actually got a letter from my previous school district that stated "children who attend preschool are less likely to go to jail" in a letter promoting their free pre-k program. It had me FUMING!  Impoverished children that attend a very high quality preschool/intervention program are less likely to go to jail is what the Perry project found. The way those findings are twisted and used to support other agendas(like universal preschool) is what bothers me. 

[meetoo]

Originally Posted by Dar 

I think the word "need" is imprecise and makes this conversation difficult. I mean, no kid is going to die without preschool. On the other hand, a lot of kids, IMO, benefit greatly from going and really enjoy it a lot. Most of the preschools I've seen haven't been academic hothouses at all, but rather have been nurturing places where kids could go 2 or 3 times a week for a few hours and sing songs and paint and build with blocks and listen to stories and have a good time with their buddies.

I agree Dar except I have seen a lot preschools that really push the academics. I think this is a newer issue though and do a lot to the fact that K is not what it used to be. So there is a huge push in the preschool years to get the kids "ready for K". Preschools and parents are under a lot of pressure. That is a whole different topic though.   I think I set it off saying the to the OP that kids don't need preschool so skip it. There are kids who greatly benefit from a high quality preschool program but in regards to the OP she wanted homeschool and her husband didn't. I just pointed out that preschool wasn't a need (or required by law) so maybe that would be a place they could compromise. I.E. keep the child home for pre-k then send him to school. I didn't mean to start a huge debate. 

[meetoo]

Originally Posted by Dar 



The thing is, there are no Perry Preschools today, or they're really rare - I know there was something similar being tried out in Harlem a few years ago but I haven't heard about it lately. Preschool programs today for at-risk kids, like Head Start, just aren't of the same high-quality and don't include a lot of the additional services (like home visits) that the Perry Preschool did. Which is a shame, really, because the evidence for them is pretty compelling...

   the findings of the Perry Project are being used to fund watered down programs that in my (nonprofessional opinion  )can actually do more damage, due to the fact that there is now a heavy emphasis on the "preschool standards".   

[mommy68]

I made my choices one year at a time as well. Life changes, many of them over the years! We started home schooling our oldest back in 1998 at 3 years old. He always did very well. He went to school a couple of times but would come back and home school here and there and is now in high school at a community college so he has done very well. But then our second child (now 9) has been a bit tougher. Her father and I got divorced during 2nd grade for her and then I had to work more from home and do odd jobs and I have the younger little one (age 2 now) and just a lot to do and feel my 9 y old has gotten short-changed. She is also very headstrong and harder to teach at home. So it varies by child. I would go by their personality type as well, which is hard to do at such a young age, but you see it as they start to grow older and notice how they learn best and react to things.

Do your research now though. If you do choose Montessori then I would get your child in at K. Around here they won't take children unless they start there in K. I was told if they come in to the school later on then it's harder for them to understand the concept.