Lurker needs insight re: parenting time agreement

[asu_mama]

Hi all,

Soon to be ex and I have been separated for 2 years and I'm finally getting around to getting the paperwork in. We are attempting to do this without attorneys to save funds. He is really hung up on one aspect of the parenting plan. He wants me to agree that the kids will spend summers with him. Right now we live 1,000 miles apart (he moved to be closer to his family and friends). I anticipate moving to the state he's in within the year. I am not agreeable to the idea of the kids spending the summers with him for several reasons. At this point, they are 7 and 3. Last Christmas they were supposed to spend 4 nights with him. The 7 year old called the morning after the first night begging to come back to me. On our last visit, he had to bring them back mid-day because the 3 year old was refusing to eat until he got back to me and he didn't know what else to do. He does not have a home of his own and does not know when he will. In addition, the 3 year old has multiple food allergies (with history of anaphylaxis, 2 times resulting in overnight in ICU) and his father does not know how to shop or cook for him and would not know how to go about finding and training caregivers to keep ds safe. In addition, if we were to end up in separate states long-term, all of ds's doctors would be in the state with me and he needs regular access to his doctors.

STBX wants me to agree that if at a certain age (no age discussed yet) the kids wanted to spend their summers with him, they should be allowed to do so. I'm trying to decide if making that agreement is safe/wise/worth it to get things finished. If I do agree, I would also add in some statements about if ds's doctors agree that it would be okay. If he continues to be rather uninvolved (he calls about once weekly for <15 minutes usually), then they would probably not opt to go live with him.

Thoughts? I don't want to set myself up for problems later. (Although by then I will have resources to fight it out in court if need be). But I also don't want to set it up for problems now if he responds that he wants summers and it comes across that I'm being unreasonable. FWIW, I have never limited his access. After he moved (of his own free will, leaving a job here for no job there) 6 months ago, I allowed him to sleep on my couch and eat my food for a weekend so that he could see the kids because all he could afford was his plane ticket. This most recent visit, our plane tickets were all on my dime and I let him have the full weekend (he was working throughout the week and is too far from my mom's house to come for a weeknight visit). Note that he declined having them for an overnight this time.

Anyway, any thoughts?

Thanks!

[MariesMama]

Honestly, he is the one that moved, so visitation would be at his expense if you guys went to court.  He really doesn't sound all that interested in being a parent, IME.

If I were you, I would not set up ANYTHING in writing with him right now. 

What he is suggesting is so far removed from what is actually happening right now that it's as if it's for his dream family, not the one that he has and is participating in now.  If you do put anything in writing, have it be as if you are planning to stay in your state.  Don't set up a plan for years down the road that is only contingent on your ex becoming a different person (having a place of his own, wanting to keep in touch with the kids).  It will also be easier to hash this out once you can sit down together.

I will admit that I am not one to be nice and accommodating to uninterested noncustodial parents.  My ex tried to pull this crap and I ended up telling him to pound sand, that I wasn't going to set up visitation for him if he was too lazy to figure it out.

Best of luck.

[meemee]

op i am going to be brutal here. 

how do you expect your kids and their father to have a relationship given the distance and the financial issue.

i think you need to think about fair. forget the courts for now.

for you to figure it out first think of fair. and how to work out a plan.

so lets take each child a time.

your 7 year old. to me him not wanting to stay is absolutely NOT a reason to refuse summer. he is 7. he is old enough. it can be worked out. i dont blame ds not wanting to stay as its not a routine for him.

with your eldest son what i would propose is skype. can your ex call him everyday and read him a story. say expect the call to be 15-20 mins long. maybe harry potter. maybe bedtime story. or perhaps a better book for your 4 year old too. read to both as a bedtime story? or even a 15 min phonecall 5 days a week to connect over skype camera so they can see each other. 

your 4 year old. first give your ex a list of all the food allergies - which ones are intolerances and which ones are deathly. and ask your ex how he plans to fit around his allergies. what if ds goes into shock what kind of medical route does he propose to follow. this is to make sure ds is safe. 

can you guys work it out so that ex can come and stay in your city for a week during winter. or even 4 days. if you are willing (and i know this is asking a lot) he stays at ur place with the boys while you go live with a friend, and he takes care of them. or maybe by then you might feel confident enough to send your sons to him for a week. 

from your post it sounds like you dont mind him taking your boys - but only under certain circumstances. both of you are being reasonable. he is willing to wait while the boys make up their mind. but as usual he doesnt really know how to start and maintain a relationship. 

can you write an agreement for a year. if he does all this, then he can take the boys for summer next year? be reasonable too. so if he cant call at such a time maybe he can call at a different time?  for a one month period during summer. 

and then revisit the agreement in another year and see where it stands.

in the meantime you document everything.  

[asu_mama]

Well these two conflicting opinions sort of reflect my feelings. :) On one hand, I do want them to be able to have a relationship, but I do not believe that it is my job to figure this out for him. I let him talk with the kids whenever he calls. It is HIS choice to call approx 1x/week. For Christmas, we gave him a wiispeak microphone so that he could play games with dd7 and talk to both of them while doing so. My mom does this and they love it. He has not even hooked it up. At one point, dd was refusing to talk to him on the phone for a few weeks--said she just didn't like to talk on the phone. I encouraged her to talk every time but he didn't want me to force her (and I agree with this). He asked me what I thought was going on with that, if I thought she was mad that he moved, etc. We talked through that situation and I suggested that perhaps he could write her a letter or talk by webcam (he has one). He couldn't do webcam because his internet is not fast enough (I believe was the reason) and he couldn't write her a letter because he "didn't have a stamp." Really. 

I agree that it is hard for the kids to be comfortable hanging out with him when they aren't used to it and doing it more is the only way they are going to get better at it. However, he has to be willing to push through when it's hard. He just wants to show back up with them and then guilt trip me into coming along on their outings so they don't cry.

I really feel like that I have been extremely gracious through all of this. He was the one to move away. He was the one to choose to return them early on both of his recent visits. I was the one that allowed him to crash at my place so that he could see the children. I am the one that has made multiple suggestions of how he could maintain/increase contact with the kids. He is the one choosing not to do that.

So my plan would be that after moving (my job there is almost a done deal; we would live about an hour from where he is now), he would have 2 overnights (FS) every other weekend and one mid-week visitation (if so desired/could make it). He would have 2 weeks of vacation each summer (I could make it more, but he's not likely to ever have even that much vacation time in the types of jobs he has). I just don't see how him having them for larger chunks of time would work. He just does not have his act together to make it work.

As for the food allergies and emergency treatment plan, I prepared a thorough document for him regarding all of this at Christmas. I sent him lots of resources about reading ingredient labels, etc (plus I had already trained him quite a bit while he was still living here). He called me from the grocery store to ask me what to buy. And for our most recent visit, since ds has had more dietary restrictions added, I told him that I would just prep and send all of the food for him since it was just a short visit.

So that's what I don't get about "fair." At what point does it stop being about me being fair to him and cross the line into he needs to own some of the issue himself, ya know? During our marriage, yes, I was the researcher of all things child related, the activity planner, etc. But, I just can't do all of that for him now. Honestly, I'm drowning myself trying to keep up with making all of ds's specialty foods, dealing with all of his dr appointments, life in general, and oh yeah trying to write my dissertation so eventually I can have a real job. Meemee, my frustration is not directed at you. Just the whole mess.

And Mariesmama, are you suggesting just not filing a parenting plan at all? In our state, if you file joint legal custody, you have to file a parenting plan. I suppose I could write it as though I'm staying here long-term, but I feel like that would be more likely to wind up with most school breaks going to him and that would be harder to undo when we live closer and he could have more regular visitation.

Ugh, I'm sure I really need a lawyer, but I just can't. :(

[meemee]

asu_mama the reason why i brought up fair is coz everyone you talk to has this idea of what 'fair' is. for many its strictly 50/50. for many like me its not. for instance there are certain things ex just does not get. that's how it is. waiting for him or trying to make him get it is no use coz he just doesnt. which dc, which school, which doctor - he could do none of that. for him those things were not that much of a priority and things like dc he just could not figure out. till he got the hang of it, i sent diapers and clothes with dd initially. 

it seems you have been doing a lot to get him to do what's beneficial for your children. so ok the internet would not work, but cant he call at least everyday?

oh GOSH you are a grad student. kudos to you. sometimes that's even harder than a job. hope you have a good understanding team at the univ. 

i am a little confused. when do you plan to move. do you have a timeline? can you write a plan for the time when there is still a 1000 miles between you and then change it when you move? do you have to write a plan that includes what would happen when you move?

i absolutely get you about him doing his part too. 

is he open to discussing this with you or is he coming on very strong. can you talk using your children rather than coming from you - like i want you to call everyday vs dd would enjoy talking to you everyday. 

it seems you really have your hands full and now this on top of everything. has he said something about how he could get more familiar with the children? 

do you have a 3rd party you could talk to. someone not emotionally invested in either of you - but someone you could just knock ideas off of and who can tell you the truth? who will also call you out if either he or you are asking for too much. most people tend to take sides and you dont want that. 

do you know what your state guidelines are? are they pro 50/50? i know where i am they expect dad to have his time too - which usually means summers with him. i am hoping other mamas who have dealt with courts maybe able to help you out. 

[NolaRiordan]

I would make it a graduated plan based on the ages of the kids and based on him successfully taking the time he has, and making an effort to stay in contact. I think you can always say that you will renegotiate the schedule in the future based on all of your needs. I would definitely not put anything in writing at this point about him getting the whole summer. Are you going to have sole legal custody, or is your plan to make that joint?

[asu_mama]

Thanks for the additional thoughts. I'm not sure why he doesn't call more. At least now he's working, so that makes a little more sense, but for the first 6 months he was there he wasn't even working. At this point he hasn't called the kids in nearly 2 weeks. Not really sure why. I thought he was avoiding talking to me but then he called last night purposely after the kids were down so he could talk about the parenting agreement I had sent him. He is being pretty pushy about it, saying that I agreed to this previously (which I absolutely did not do, not that it would matter), and trying to guilt trip me. That's his specialty.

I am planning to move this December as soon as the semester is over for dd and I. This is assuming the job finalizes for me there. I don't suppose that I have to write a plan for after we move, but I feel like the long-distance set up is more apt to have a judge say he gets all/most of the long holidays and then that precedent would be hard to undo later.

As for plans to get closer to the children, he doesn't have any. He thinks that me agreeing to him having the summers is the key, apparently, but like someone upthread said, that's sort of like planning for a reality he doesn't really have. Obviously things will change as the kids get older, but if they don't gradually build a relationship with him, I can't really see a kid suddenly at 10 or whatever want to go spend weeks there. To be fair, the kids do know him and love him. They are always excited to see him and generally enjoy their time with him (except for some separation anxiety type stuff), but they don't seem to miss him at all when he's gone. Like right now, dd hasn't even asked why it's been so long since he called.

As for a 3rd party, I see a therapist regularly who thinks he's pretty much off his rocker, but that's of course only based on my report. As best I can tell, if he responds to the initial court papers with disagreement to the parenting plan, it will be sent to mediation though I have no clue how they handle that with one party out of state. And I also don't know what this state leans toward for parenting time.

A graduated plan based on the kids' ages does make sense and making it hinge on his ongoing contact is good. I don't think he'll like that as he doesn't like to think I'm telling him what to do/watching what he does. I also could be open to renegotiating later but I hate to set us up for more battles down the line too. The agreement is for us to have joint legal custody but I am the final decision maker with his input taken into consideration. I have toyed recently with going for sole legal custody based on some disagreements we had about treating my son's newly diagnosed disease, but I think I'm going to stick with joint to try to maintain a little coparenting harmony.

So I guess really I need to get to work figuring out what happens if I file the paperwork and he files a response with a disagreement.

Thanks for all the help. Further advice welcomed!