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No child left behind (or untested!) - Page 3

post #41 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by LynnS6 View Post

Putting on only my parent hat (and not my professor hat), I'm incredibly frustrated by the testing requirements. In our state, children can retake the test  until they get a passing score. Fine. No reason to penalize a child because they can't pass it in January. BUT if other kids are taking the test, my kids can't be learning new material, because the kids who are being tested would miss out. So...all the students in the school lose a TON of time to instruction because if the school (which is Title I) doesn't make 'adequate yearly progress', they're penalized.

 

It's just nature's way, there will always be some left behind just as there will be some that are out front. The ones lagging behind can't be moved up so the alternative is to move the ones out front back so everyone is more "equal". The long range effect will be dumbing down the education of not just a few but the majority to claim NCLB a success. 

post #42 of 49

the way teachers teach has changed dramatically. They have less freedom and must ensure that our children learn what's necessary to pass the state mandated testing.  In most cases I am completely unsatisfied with our current school system.  What on earth makes sense in the idea of taking money away from the schools that test badly and rewarding those that test well????  So less money is somehow going to help fix a desperate situation??

I have also noticed a huge "dumbing down" of our children. Stuff I learned in middle school is now finally being taught to our high schoolers if at all.  I have 4 children, some of them started school just before the NCLB act came into play so we don't have a lot of Before experience, except my own and my husbands.

 

I am also very disturbed by the lack of Art and Physical Education within our current school system. In order to ensure our kids now meet state standards, more and more "elective" classes such as Arts and Physical Education have taken a side line. It's sad really. Most children need that creative and physical outlet to help them do better in other areas of learning.

 

My high-schoolers also told me that no child is (in high school as I don't know about other grades) allowed to fail or repeat a grade like when I was a kid. No, all kids are moved along through the ranks regardless of their grades (pass/fail). They will simply take remedial classes to earn the credits necessary for graduation. 

 

However, on a plus side, I have seen a huge emergence of charter schools which is great! It's nice to have options even within the public school system. Also there has been a surge in homeschooling families which bring us out of the closet, so to speak and that in turn helps those homeschooling families find more resources. :)

 

 

post #43 of 49

The effects of NCLB -- large subject, but you have asked for a personal response. I remember when Gov. White first put in teacher testing -- literacy testing for teachers -- into place here in Texas. My daughter, second grade, came home saying that the teachers spent the entire day in the teachers' lounge fussing about it.  I remember then, when she was in the 9th grade, and the Lubbock school system's re-takers filled the parking lot of the high school. So back then I was all for testing. TASS, TEKS etc. was the Texas forerunner of the testing plan that became NCLB.

 

But for the past few years in my classroom (freshman level Sociology at a community college) I have found that recent high school students have such bad comportment that it dwarfs the "learning disabilities" or the "poor demographics" or the academic underpreparedness that I have previously been addressing. Students are astonished and offended to be expected to turn things in on time or have only 1 crack at an exam. I have an extremely liberal syllabus, eliciting rewrites until the A is made, offering 142 points (through choices of small papers) when only 90 makes an A.  Further, one may drop 3/4 of the way through the semester, but now, now since NCLB has been in place, I find that many (all recent high school grads) find a way to fail.

 

I had a student who demanded, in the middle of an exam, when the restest was. I laughed. Another student piped up to correct me, "That is a serious question!"  "That was a serious answer."  I had never in all my born days - 4 degrees - have I ever heard of a retest. They assumed it.  Along with the assumption that it was okay to talk, even correct me, during the administration of an exam.

 

I asked around about what was going on. I was told that the problem was that the Texas Legislature ruled that NCLB would be applied in specified ways, including that there would now be no deadlines and innumerable retakes.  I found that the paperwork and committee requirements were so onerous that no teacher would fail a student. Students knowing that, come to expect that even with absolutely no effort that they would be passed. 

 

No longer is it the "students at risk" but the middle and upper middle class students who are the problem. For instance, I had a lovely young lady come to me after the final, asking me to help her raise her grade. She insisted that that is what all the teachers do. After the final? A week after all other papers are turned in?  While I am calculating the grades? Yes, and if I did not, *I* was out of line. She was quite surprised when after some rather heated pressure from her, my response was "If we are to continue this conversation, we will do so in the Dean's office." 

 

 

Having long been an advoacte for learning disabilities remediation, long an advoacte of public school improvement, and long an instructor who was able to salvage and trun around  few student each semester I was for increasing rigor. Yes, I wanted to encourage teachers to do what I had always done. I wanted to motivate better performance throughout the system.  The opposite has clearly happened.  Good intentions have become a disaster. W. James Popham's *The Truth About Testing* c2001 explains how the political logic of making tests by which teachers and schools are tested  has meant that the tests are made ever easier, and the curricula is drastically dumbed down, not only by being now factual instead of skill building , analytical or ever synthetic, but now also by those very items being scaled down and further down. 

 

College instructors have to reduce the level at which they teach every few years; that's been my experience for the 20 years I've taught. I previewed a textbook for college freshmen yesterday written at a 6th grade reading level. Clearly most of the committee will adopt it.

 

But I can't leave without an answer, an encouragement.  Yes, we need increased rigor. Yes we need accountability.  Yes, we have had standardized testing before.  Yes NCLB is a disaster. Yes, we need to go back to the drawing board for public policy.  But as parents, as educators, as citizens, individually we must go back to character, ethics, virtue, truth & love. Sociologists need to do public sociology that includes moral competence and a re-embrace of honor for religion -- just like the founding fathers assumed would always happen -- and certainly did happen in their day. Shame on us for having not taught that - not even correct history -- for now about 50 years!

 

As a believer I say the church should get out of the political strife and bifurcation and start offering leadership based on going back to the methods of Jesus. As a parent, gosh I realize it is difficult to stretch to do everything, but the priority is teaching honor & altruism, Truth & Love -- basic ways of behaving. Without this moral underpinning, we are doomed to any deception and disaster at any obstacle, but with moral competence as a foundation, then we will be able to build aright.  

post #44 of 49

I wanted to make sure everyone knows that they cannot force you to test your children. You can keep them home on testing days and have a portfolio to show growth no matter where they attend school. Just be sure your child DOES show a year's worth of growth if you do this and be sure you are ready if there happens to be an arguments from the district. BTW it is a real waste of time to practice test taking skills below high school ages. I have master's degree and standardized testing is pretty worthless if you ask me.

post #45 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by happymommy1 View Post

I wanted to make sure everyone knows that they cannot force you to test your children. You can keep them home on testing days and have a portfolio to show growth no matter where they attend school. Just be sure your child DOES show a year's worth of growth if you do this and be sure you are ready if there happens to be an arguments from the district. BTW it is a real waste of time to practice test taking skills below high school ages. I have master's degree and standardized testing is pretty worthless if you ask me.


 

I agree that standardized testing is pretty worthless. Actually, it does a decent job of measuring socio-economic status and parental education.

 

However, I won't keep my kids at home on testing days because frankly, my kids are the ones that are helping our school make AYP. They're high achievers (children of academic parents who read a lot with them, give them experiences and talk to them about it) and good test takers. I'd feel like I'd be punishing the school by keeping my kids out. Sad, but true.

post #46 of 49
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by happymommy1 View Post

I wanted to make sure everyone knows that they cannot force you to test your children. You can keep them home on testing days and have a portfolio to show growth no matter where they attend school.


This must vary by state. In the last state we lived in, if children missed school on test days, the made the test up when they returned to school. (I'm not sure how our current state does it because our private school gets an opt out).

 

 

post #47 of 49

You can always find a way to opt out.  That's what I'll be doing.  I put my kids back in school this year.  If I have to take them out in April and re enroll them in August... I'll do that.  And I can, I'm in Texas.  Homeschool is considered a private school and there is nothing they can do about it.

post #48 of 49

I have no experience PreNCLB , but I'm concerned because my third grader is already worried about taking the test. :(  To much pressure is put on the kids. We live in Middle class suburb so our schools score well and aren't as affect by NCLB as the poorer districts are. I think in theory it''s a good idea to hold schools/teacher accountable, but in actuality it's not working. They don't take into account all the variables and expecting 100% of kids to pass the test on grade level is just not going to be possible. I think the schools need to be judged by the progress they are making and whether they are achieving the standards. They may have a child reading 2 grades behind but they managed to teach him English and 2 grades worth or reading in one year! They should be rewarded not pennalized. I also think parents need to do more and be held more accountable. Wealthier parents are the ones pushing for the retest because poor lil Jr failed and it couldn't possibly be his fault or his grade! Other kids are not doing homework, don't own a single book, are spending all their free time watching TV/surfing the net. Our culture does not promote learning. That is one of the biggest problems I see and where the change really needs to start. Only "dorks" do well in school is not the mentality that is going to get our country up to par. :/ 

post #49 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by meetoo View Post Our culture does not promote learning. That is one of the biggest problems I see and where the change really needs to start. Only "dorks" do well in school is not the mentality that is going to get our country up to par. :/ 


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