Need help with my brother, who has a Phd and thinks he knows everything!

[mama to 2 girls]

My brother and SIL are due with their first baby soon and my mom wanted to go visit them with the baby is born but he is telling her that if she doesn't go get a booster shot for Pertussis that they don't want her coming. At first she was all ready to go get the shot and didn't even think about it......I suppose I should have just let her do it, but I had to open my big mouth....

All I did was show her the vaccine ingredients on the CDC website and that was practically enough to make her NOT want to have the vaccine....but I also showed her on the CDC website that the booster was not approved for people 65 and older (it also said that it was perfectly safe but not fully tested yet so it just isn't "approved" yet  ) but then when she googled it last week, it said that the FDA (who we all know, if they approve it, it MUST be safe ) all of a sudden decided that they approved it. 

So I also showed my mom that vaccines are culture in either human or animal tissue and that was another turn off for her. My mother has never been vax'ed in her life, my grandmother raised 10 kids(including my mom) and didn't have any of them vax'ed, not even a Tetanus shot for my uncle when he was 10 and needed stitches. 

My brother has a Phd in Physics and thinks that I am crazy for not vaxing my kids and thinks I have brainwashed my mother. Everytime I try to talk to him about it, he says I have to scientific study to prove my fears and that all my fears have been debunked (the word he used). 

He sent us this long email with a couple of websites but it's all from the CDC or this other website Vaccine.org or something like that. I didn't see any scientific research proving that vaccine ARE SAFE!! I don't know of any actual scientific research that has been done to prove that they are UNsafe either but for me it is just common sense. 

He also said that the amount of all the chemicals and preservatives in these vaccines are so minute that our body just gets rid of it all. And he also sent me another link to a website saying that there is more aluminum in breastmilk and formula that in the vaccines that a child would get by the time they are 6 mos. old or something like that. 

Anyways, can someone help me with something "scientific" that I could show him. He is being so closed minded!! He is saying that we are causing all the outbreaks and putting all the vax'ed people at risk.  And he also had to throw in for good measure my use of alcohol hand sanitizer and that it's the reason for all the super germs and that why can I use hand sanitizer but vaccines are not ok. 

Thanks for listening to me vent!! 

[AerialistEm]

My best advice is to stay out of it.  You aren't going to change his mind.  Just let it drop.  And you've given your mom the information - its up to her to make her own decision and manage her relationship with your brother.

[APToddlerMama]

Well, don't you remember that semi-crazy state you're in with a newborn in which you're certain they're going to get pertussis and any number of other life threatening diseases?  I'd cut him a bit of slack.  I agree the shot could be dangerous for your mom, but obviously a newborn getting pertussis is dangerous as well.  (We don't vax either).  I guess there is no way to really know who is more at risk...newborn or grandma...so I'd probably stay out of it.  Good luck! 

[mama to 2 girls]

Thanks, I already told my mom that I am going to stay out of it but she keeps asking me what she should do......He sent her another email stating that if she didn't have the vaccine, that it was going to make them feel at least a little more compelled to get him vax'ed earlier than they wanted to....stating that they wanted to wait until the end of the recommended periods to give him shots(which totally stunned me because he just got done sending my mom a ton of links from government and the CDC raving about how safe vaccines are).... And he also said we would like for you to be able to see more than just pics of him. To me those are just rotten things to say.

I know what it's like to worry about a newborn catching everything under the sun, i've been thru it 3 times......but it's the part where he is trying to guilt her into it. 

Anyways, thanks for the input. 

[ma2two]

"It is unknown whether immunizing adolescents and adults against pertussis will reduce the risk of transmission to infants."

http://www.vaccineplace.com/support/brochure/adacelpatientbrochure.pdf (page 5)

Adacel (Tdap) advertisement

[LiLStar]

^^ Yeah that. The vaccine does not, *at all*, prevent pertussis infection even when it works perfectly. It provides immunity to the toxin that causes the coughing, which is produced by the bactiera. So, it DOES make sense that you are more likely to catch pertussis from someone who is having raging coughing fits than from someone who feels fine, or only mildly sick and isn't coughing much if at all. But the disease is present in both people! The person who is having raging coughing fits will probably think twice before visiting a newborn (if they have any conscience) yet the person who feels fine... hugging and kissing on a newborn.. thats dangerous. I think vaccinating adults for pertussis is a terrible idea, because they won't KNOW they're sick, and might spread it to a baby! 

[emmy526]

Originally Posted by LiLStar 

^^ Yeah that. The vaccine does not, *at all*, prevent pertussis infection even when it works perfectly. It provides immunity to the toxin that causes the coughing, which is produced by the bactiera. So, it DOES make sense that you are more likely to catch pertussis from someone who is having raging coughing fits than from someone who feels fine, or only mildly sick and isn't coughing much if at all. But the disease is present in both people! The person who is having raging coughing fits will probably think twice before visiting a newborn (if they have any conscience) yet the person who feels fine... hugging and kissing on a newborn.. thats dangerous. I think vaccinating adults for pertussis is a terrible idea, because they won't KNOW they're sick, and might spread it to a baby! 

and i think thats how it is getting spread to infants.   An adult friend of mine got the Tdap and within a week, he had a "cold"...i told him it was most likely the pertussis component coming out and to stay away from infants as he can spread it unknowingly. 

[ma2two]

Quote:

Originally Posted by LiLStar 

^^ Yeah that. The vaccine does not, *at all*, prevent pertussis infection even when it works perfectly. It provides immunity to the toxin that causes the coughing, which is produced by the bactiera. So, it DOES make sense that you are more likely to catch pertussis from someone who is having raging coughing fits than from someone who feels fine, or only mildly sick and isn't coughing much if at all. But the disease is present in both people! The person who is having raging coughing fits will probably think twice before visiting a newborn (if they have any conscience) yet the person who feels fine... hugging and kissing on a newborn.. thats dangerous. I think vaccinating adults for pertussis is a terrible idea, because they won't KNOW they're sick, and might spread it to a baby! 

EXACTLY.

Not that I would ask anyone their vaccination status (because I tend to stay out of people's health business in real life) but I'd MUCH rather someone visiting my baby NOT be vaccinated for pertussis. And I can guarantee I've done a lot more research on pertussis and the vaccine than your brother and SIL.
 

[Weevil]

Should we point out that is PhD is in physics?

And he also had to throw in for good measure my use of alcohol hand sanitizer and that it's the reason for all the super germs and that why can I use hand sanitizer but vaccines are not ok.

Uhm... no.  Alcohol does not create superbugs.  Overuse of antibiotics does.  His ignorance is showing.

[ma2two]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mama to 2 girls

And he also had to throw in for good measure my use of alcohol hand sanitizer and that it's the reason for all the super germs and that why can I use hand sanitizer but vaccines are not ok.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weevil 

Should we point out that is PhD is in physics?

Uhm... no.  Alcohol does not create superbugs.  Overuse of antibiotics does.  His ignorance is showing.

lol. exactly. You might also want to point out that the alcohol hand sanitizer industry does not require legislation and Supreme Court decisions protecting them from any and all lawsuits in order to stay in business.

Also, I just reread your post, and his aluminum in formula comparison doesn't work. The vast majority of ingested aluminum passes right through the body. Not so with injected aluminum. I guess we can forgive him for that mistake though. That's not something that would be typically covered in physics classes. 

Edited by ma2two - 7/22/11 at 2:59pm

[miriam]

.  

Edited by miriam - Yesterday at 6:13 pm

[bygones75]

I'm not much help, but sending a hug and sympathy.  My brother's first child is due in two weeks, and he had my father call yesterday to tell us we cannot have our children near the baby until she is a year old (and fully immunized for pertussis.)  Do I know my family is wrong?  Yes.  But my brother had two doctors and a midwife put the fear of God in him.  And I know how scary it is when "authorities" do that.  So I told him it's his decision to make, that I love him and the baby, and left it at that.

It's terribly upsetting, and my husband is beyond angry.  But I had a feeling this would happen.  And after the first year, they'll get pregnant with another... my other brother and his wife will follow suit... we'll be barred from family get-togethers for a good five years.

My tears are done today. You have to let people make their own decision, though I understand your frustration. 

I haven't broken the news to my boys yet though.  They were so looking forward to seeing the baby.  :(

[ma2two]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bygones75 

It's terribly upsetting, and my husband is beyond angry.  But I had a feeling this would happen.  And after the first year, they'll get pregnant with another... my other brother and his wife will follow suit... we'll be barred from family get-togethers for a good five years.

The Tdap vaccine campaign is completely evil. It is tearing families apart.

Nobody in my family (except my husband, of course), knows that our kids are not vaccinated. So we have been able to avoid all possible drama and heartache.

[bygones75]

Originally Posted by ma2two 

Quote:

Nobody in my family (except my husband, of course), knows that our kids are not vaccinated. So we have been able to avoid all possible drama and heartache.

You were so smart.  I open my mouth far too often.  If I could turn back the clock, no one in my family (besides DH) would be involved with major health decision with our kids.  I've received nothing but grief.

[miriam]

.

Edited by miriam - Yesterday at 6:09 pm

[kathymuggle]

Originally Posted by bygones75 

I'm not much help, but sending a hug and sympathy.  My brother's first child is due in two weeks, and he had my father call yesterday to tell us we cannot have our children near the baby until she is a year old (and fully immunized for pertussis.)  Do I know my family is wrong?  Yes.  But my brother had two doctors and a midwife put the fear of God in him.  And I know how scary it is when "authorities" do that.  So I told him it's his decision to make, that I love him and the baby, and left it at that.

It's terribly upsetting, and my husband is beyond angry.  But I had a feeling this would happen.  And after the first year, they'll get pregnant with another... my other brother and his wife will follow suit... we'll be barred from family get-togethers for a good five years.

My tears are done today. You have to let people make their own decision, though I understand your frustration. 

I haven't broken the news to my boys yet though.  They were so looking forward to seeing the baby.  :(

  That is awful...it also makes no sense!

Have you emailed them the stats (use CDC) on getting VPD's?  Most are really, really low.  Miniscule.  As for the ones that are not low - well, it then follows that the vaccine is not particularly effective  for that disease.

[nia82]

Yes, it's best to not share the info at all. I now feel it's best to lie to rabid family members. One of my sisters follows a sel/del schedule while the other not only vaccinates on schedule, but also added extra doses to be "safe" and enrolled her son in a trial for a new vaccine. By the time he was 15 months, he received an insane amount of shots, including 3 (!!!) MMRs (and he is the sickest kid I know, he's on antibiotics 10/12 months of the year, but she says it's due to daycare). Yes, she is a MD, but she has never practiced. She works in pharm research. That might be handy for some things (aka finding an antibiotic that's ok with breastfeeding), but she has done no research in vaccines, said I read a liar website when it comes to fetal cells used in the rubella/chickenpox/HepA/others, once she read said oh well still super cool benefit. So yeah she has done no research beyond what she was told in med school (shots are awesome, have no side effects, push them on everyone). So what do I do? I smile, lie and change the subject. DH's family lives far away from us too (my family is in Europe), and they had kids recently too and said only TDaP or you can't come close. They don't know what we do so they just assumed we are vaccinated and I leave it at that. We do even vaccinate but with literally rabid people there is no sense of reasoning. Even my somewhat critical SIL (she did a delayed schedule, but not selective at all) was like why wouldn't you get the DTaP it protects your baby I got it (she doesn't tell the others about our status). I explained to her how it doesn't stop transmission but she was like nope not what the doctor said. Oh well if the doctor says you have to eat 10 steaks a day, I guess she would. Shrug.

[ma2two]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bygones75 

I open my mouth far too often.  If I could turn back the clock, no one in my family (besides DH) would be involved with major health decision with our kids.  I've received nothing but grief.

It's not too late to start lying, lol. Can you tell them your doctor finally talked some sense into you, and now you are vaccinating?

[Honey693]

He's doing what he thinks is best for his child.  Respect that and move on.

[freestylemama]

I can't believe some of you are advocating lying about your children's vaccine status.