What could I have done/said?

[anj_rn]

I was with my son at swim lessons this morning and talking to 2 of the mom's.  One of which I know (we met earlier this summer), and one of which I did not.  The one I know introduced herself and her infant and we began talking.  Her son was about the same age my son, and she was discussing the difficulties of finding kids to play with since her son's playgroup parent objected to her BFing in front of the kids.  I invited her to our playgroup's trip to the park for a picnic and then the library tomorrow, since we all do/did extended breastfeeding.  She seemed excited.  Toward the end of the lesson, her son jumped into the pool without permission, and she got visibly upset.  I asked her if everything was OK, and she sid she was upset sine now her son would have to get a spanking.  Her husband had told him that if he did not listen during lessons he would get a spanking.  I was trying to decide how to respond, when the other mom suggested that she just not tell her husband, since the teacher had explained to him why it was not safe behavior.  She that if she did not spank him, her husband would spank both of them.  The other mom continued to talk to her, and she said they practice Christian Domestic Discipline and her husband spanks her for her wrongdoings.

I was horrified, and literally just sat there listening in shock.  I had never heard of this, and now I am not sure what to say/do if she comes tomorrow.  Also, most of our group practice GD, so I do not know how the other moms in the group will react (the moms who do not prctice GD usually only give time outs or will leave).  What could I have said?  Even if this mom does not come, I will see her next week at swim lessons.

[CarrieMF]

If this is the type of upbringing they are practicing I don't think there is anything you could say that would change anything, especially since you don't really know her.  but wow!

[mom2grrls]

Since she is Christian you could suggest gentle christian mothers, it is a GD online resource.

[Xerxella]

OMG

WOW! 

I have to say, we have to call this what this is, which is domestic violence.  I know she may not welcome it and it may fall on deaf ears, but we all have a responsibility to help our sisters out there.  I would tell her she does not have to be beaten in her own home.  I can't believe that God would want that for anyone.  I would look up on line Christian domestic violence supprt lines and bring her the information.  Here I did it for you: 

http://www.safehorizon.org/ 

http://www.focusministries1.org/sitemap.html 

http://whatsgoodaboutanger.com/domestic.asp 

http://ccada.org/default.aspx 

I just did a google search for christian domestic violence support.  You can look up what's in your area.  PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, at the very least give this woman the information.  Personally, I would find out what church she's at and talk to the pastor or send him an anonymous letter.  No church preaches violence against women.  If the abusers' pastor told him to stop it might work.  Also, I would consider filing a police report.  This would depend on your jurisdiction and how you think they'd handle it.  Probably no action's going to be taken, but it starts the paper chain of evidence when she finally does leave or she ends up in the hospital or worse the morgue. 

I'm not being dramatic.  Domestic violence does not de-escalate.  It only escalates and gets worse over time.  Please do what you can to help her. 

P.S.  If you do write a letter to the pastor, I would do it from the position of a man and say you overheard about it when the husband was talking about it.  Hopefully, this would protect the woman. 

Good luck.  What a sad story. 

[bamamom]

I hate to tell you but there do seem to be churches that quietly endorse CDD,  Please be careful if you intrude into this woman's personal life because you risk making things very bad for her.

[coffeegirl]

I wouldn't jump the gun and say that it's domestic violence, since most "domestic discipline" situations make a big deal out of the wife giving full consent for the terms of the relationship. Sometimes there are even legal-esque contracts drawn up.

The most troublesome part to me is that she up and admitted this, kind of out of nowhere, to near-strangers. That sends up some red flags to me. I can't think of a single "normal" reason why she'd do that. (I know, the irony....talking about "normal" behavior among CDD couples lol.) BUT I strongly suspect she was getting....something...out of telling this to you guys. I would doubt her intentions and her sincerity and tread very carefully with pursuing this friendship or acquaintanceship.

If she shows up at your playgroup....If it were me, I'd be cordial and then try to distance myself. I know, that's horribly judge-y but this whole thing sounds very *wrong* and insincere, and that goes beyond the oddness of this woman's lifestyle w/ her husband.

[kmeyrick]

Originally Posted by bamamom 

I hate to tell you but there do seem to be churches that quietly endorse CDD,  Please be careful if you intrude into this woman's personal life because you risk making things very bad for her.

Never came across one. CDD is overwhelmingly a fetish thing. You will not find literature on how to spank your wife in a typical fundamentalist church. You will find plenty on fetish sites. There are some fetish sites that are disguised as religious ones, but if you read them, they are certainly erotic in nature. I still believe that CDD can easily become abusive and unhealthy. I think the links people have posted is a good idea, if indeed this whole conversation ever really took place.

[Xerxella]

Originally Posted by bamamom 

I hate to tell you but there do seem to be churches that quietly endorse CDD,  Please be careful if you intrude into this woman's personal life because you risk making things very bad for her.

I get that there are things that are worse than being beaten in her own home.  But, if this is a true story (and I'm not doubting anj_rn, but I can understand coffeegirl's feeling that the fact that the acquaintance brought it up out of nowhere is wierd and unusual) she seems to be calling out for help and she deserves at least the effort of someone trying to help her by, at the very least, giving her information on how to escape her abuser.   

By doing nothing you are turning your back, not only on the woman, but on her children who will grow up with this violence and abuse in their home.  Can you imagine how messed up in the head that child is going to be?  Not only are they being beaten on a regular basis, but they watch their mom being beaten.  What a horrible feeling of helplessness. 

Too often in our society we say it's none of our business.  It's their personal life.  But, this woman is calling out for help.  And, I get that women in these situations are usually struggling with other additional problems (lack of job skills, low self esteem, lack of social skills, history of abuse, etc), but they doesn't mean they don't deserve an effort to help them. 

[hakeber]

I would be equally stumped for action.  I would probably have sat there agape in horror.

It is one thing asking for a spanking when I'm being "naughty", but quite another to allow my husband to decide when that is...yikes.

I also would find it very disturbing to hand discipline over to my husband that way...perhaps you could approach it from that angle?  Like: "Hmmmm, don't you think it undermines your position as a teacher and an authority figure to be the tattle-tale in the relationship rather than the one who co-parents?  I would find it impossible to get my kid to listen if he knew that daddy was the only one who could dole out discipline and even more so if he knew I was willing to stand by and watch him get hurt.  How do you make it work?"

Maybe she was crying out for help?

In the play date, perhaps your should let her know beforehand that it is a GD group and her views of corporal punishent might be met with a fair amount of hostility.   

There used to be a thread for this sect in the religious forums here...maybe it is still there?

[anj_rn]

Thanks for the advice, she did not show up to play group.  I did some research on CDD, and now I am really perplexed that she would just come out and tell a stranger.  So now I am torn between wondering if this was a cry for help or a ruse to get attention.  I talked to a therapist friend of mine, and she gave me info on a local women's group that has child care.  The kids all think it is a playgroup, but the women are all victims of DV.  I was just really thrown for a loop with this one.  Thanks for helping me think it through, I am still in awe that this would be considered acceptable.

[mamaecho]

I agree with this.

PS. This is so strange, this is the second time I've read about CDD.... and prior to a week ago I had never even heard of it (and I'm a pretty fundamental Christian)

Originally Posted by coffeegirl 

I wouldn't jump the gun and say that it's domestic violence, since most "domestic discipline" situations make a big deal out of the wife giving full consent for the terms of the relationship. Sometimes there are even legal-esque contracts drawn up.

The most troublesome part to me is that she up and admitted this, kind of out of nowhere, to near-strangers. That sends up some red flags to me. I can't think of a single "normal" reason why she'd do that. (I know, the irony....talking about "normal" behavior among CDD couples lol.) BUT I strongly suspect she was getting....something...out of telling this to you guys. I would doubt her intentions and her sincerity and tread very carefully with pursuing this friendship or acquaintanceship.

If she shows up at your playgroup....If it were me, I'd be cordial and then try to distance myself. I know, that's horribly judge-y but this whole thing sounds very *wrong* and insincere, and that goes beyond the oddness of this woman's lifestyle w/ her husband.

[ashtak]

Just curious, according to CDD can she spank her husband when he does something "wrong"... somehow i can intuit the answer to that is no.

Although i think I might spank my DH if he can to me with a "legal esque document" expecting me to sign up for CDD 

[mommy68]

Originally Posted by bamamom 

I hate to tell you but there do seem to be churches that quietly endorse CDD,  Please be careful if you intrude into this woman's personal life because you risk making things very bad for her.

I agree. She needs other mothers to be around and probably would benefit being around you and your group. I wouldn't shun her. I would emphasize your choice of GD gently over and over and hope it sinks in, but if it doesn't she will likely move on anyway I'm sure out of feeling uncomfortable. But I too am surprised. I can't believe this type of thing goes on, sounds like domestic violence to me too :(  and I can't believe she talks about it so openly unless she is just very naive perhaps.

[Alenushka]

I really would report this to CPS....this is violence against the child and the mother.

[coffeegirl]

Originally Posted by Alenushka 

I really would report this to CPS....this is violence against the child and the mother.

If it's really CDD, then it isn't really abuse any more than people who get their kinks playing BDSM games in the bedroom are abusing each other. This is a phenomenon that has it's roots in plain ol' sexual kink and in CDD they REALLY make a huge leap and distort the meaning of Ephesians 5 (St. Paul, from the Bible) and stretch the whole thing out to encompass an entire lifestyle. A "godly" lifestyle. But don't be fooled-- it's all about the kink. 

I don't know if you can report the child issue either, unless corporal punishment is illegal in the OP's state/country.

Ashtak-- when I researched this topic a few months ago, I found that in like 95% of the couples, it was the wife who initiated it and brought the lifestyle possibility to the table. You can find all kinds of forums and blogs out there devoted to women who are upset and whining because they can't get their husbands on board as much as they want them to be.