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Television, computer, and video games, oh my - Page 3

post #41 of 80

 

Quote:

 

i have no idea what consentual living is, but i do know what GD is.  and isn't. 
 

 

 

No. You have decided what GD means for you-that is not a universal truth for anyone else. There is no one true faith when it comes to GD. It is a range and that is how it should be. No one strict method works for all. Some kids can thrive in an environment with less rules and some kids need an environment with a lot of rules.

 

And that can even change from day to day and from kid to kid.

 

But to suggest there is ONE TRUE WAY is to miss the point about GD completely.

post #42 of 80

I'm scratching my head over what is so utterly offensive about "train a child."  The wording sounded a little awkward, but our kids look to us to teach them, guide them, and yes, train them. 

 

How is that so horrible?

post #43 of 80

oh, oaktree.. usually you read all the stuff first.  i don't know what i said that was so offputting to everybody. 

which part of the posts i wrote was about something that isn't what most folks consider to be GD?

letting children participate in decision making?

having kids actively come up with ways to self-regulate? 

please tell me which part of what i said you think i shows am trying to have one GD to rule them all? 

post #44 of 80

This thread has completely lost its way.

 

To reply to comments directed to me, yes, I think hiding a television and lying about it in order to stop your child from asking for it is abusive. That is a complete misuse of your power and authority as a parent. 

 

Bedtime is completely different from TV. Children need more sleep than adults do, to have them go to bed earlier than you is to meet their biological needs. TV is not a necessity and if you are unwilling to give up your TV habit it is unfair to expect a child to do it. It's like being forced onto a diet when everyone else in your house is still eating doughnuts, even if they don't do it in front of you it still isn't fair. Just put yourself in their shoes, how would you feel? 

 

And finally, you are obviously free to make whatever parenting choices you like and I am powerless to stop you, and you can call it whatever you want. But don't think for a second I'm going to pretend like it's gentle just so you wont feel guilty about it. (I am talking specifically about imposing your will and expecting obedience, and "training" your children).

 

hildare, I don't know who that "shark" comment was really directed to, maybe the both of us. For what it's worth, I completely agree with you. We are obviously getting nowhere, though, so maybe it is time to let this thread sink.


Edited by holothuroidea - 7/27/11 at 7:56am
post #45 of 80

 

Quote:

 

please tell me which part of what i said you think i shows am trying to have one GD to rule them all? 

 

It was what I quoted-it came across as a way of insinuating those of us disagreeing are just disagreeing because we don't know what GD is. That is rather off putting.

 

Rules and limits and routines are a large part of how we practice GD. I do agree with you about children being able to have input into decisions and rules that affect them. They have valuable insights and look at situations differently than we do.

 

 

post #46 of 80



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by holothuroidea View Post

This thread has completely lost its way.

 

To reply to comments directed to me, yes, I think hiding a television and lying about it in order to stop your child from asking for it is abusive. That is a complete misuse of your power and authority as a parent. 

 

Bedtime is completely different from TV. Children need more sleep than adults do, to have them go to bed earlier than you is to meet their biological needs. TV is not a necessity for adults or children (although I think for a lot of children it serves as a method of isolation, which they might need if they are feeling alone) and if you are unwilling to give up your TV habit it is unfair to expect a child to do it. It's like going on a diet when everyone else in your house is still eating doughnuts, even if they don't do it in front of you it still isn't fair. Just put yourself in their shoes, how would you feel? 

 

hildare, it's unclear whether these comments are being directed at you or me or the both of us but we are clearly getting nowhere so maybe it is time to let this thread sink.



I was talking to you, holothuroidea. You didn't respond to the rest of my post. I still don't understand why you think it's OK to be a hypocrite about some things but not others. You explained that sleep is different because it's a biological necessity, what about smoking and drinking, like I said before? Those definitely aren't biological necessities, they're just for fun like TV. Maybe you can explain it better, because I'm still confused.

 

Maybe I can't understand you because my PhD is acting up. Did you know that people with PhDs don't have any common sense? There's a thread in the vaccination forum explaining it all; it was super helpful to me in understanding my disability in common sense.

 

post #47 of 80

eligracey, that is what is known as a "straw man argument." 

and i am not sure what you mean about phd folks.  i work with them.  every day.  they are like everyone else.  some people you wonder how they even made it through grade school and others astonish you with their brains.  i really don't think education differentiates people as much as the people with degrees like to think. (myself included)

post #48 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by holothuroidea View Post

This thread has completely lost its way.

 

To reply to comments directed to me, yes, I think hiding a television and lying about it in order to stop your child from asking for it is abusive. That is a complete misuse of your power and authority as a parent. 

 

Bedtime is completely different from TV. Children need more sleep than adults do, to have them go to bed earlier than you is to meet their biological needs. TV is not a necessity and if you are unwilling to give up your TV habit it is unfair to expect a child to do it. It's like being forced onto a diet when everyone else in your house is still eating doughnuts, even if they don't do it in front of you it still isn't fair. Just put yourself in their shoes, how would you feel? 

 

And finally, you are obviously free to make whatever parenting choices you like and I am powerless to stop you, and you can call it whatever you want. But don't think for a second I'm going to pretend like it's gentle just so you wont feel guilty about it. (I am talking specifically about imposing your will and expecting obedience, and "training" your children).

 

hildare, I don't know who that "shark" comment was really directed to, maybe the both of us. For what it's worth, I completely agree with you. We are obviously getting nowhere, though, so maybe it is time to let this thread sink.

I don't feel guilty about setting 'non negotiable' rules here.  Your opinion isn't really going to affect that either way.  So no need to pretend :)  FTR I don't lie about or hide the TV.  I just have no problem saying "I know better than you and what I say goes" (wrt to TV and some other things).  

 

The idea that we should all give up TV here if my 5 year old had trouble with it is bizarre to me.  For one, he goes to bed at 7pm.  Do DH and I then sit around all evening without TV?  So basically my 5 year old is calling the shots?  That's like a GD parody.  

 

I think calling hiding a TV abusive is kind of insulting to people who are abuse survivors.  

 

 

post #49 of 80

I ignored the BS about drugs/alcohol and sex because I honestly thought you were just being absolutely ridiculous. I chose not to justify it with a response, it was clearly an attack on my character and completely unnecessary. If you want a response here it is, don't drink if you don't want your kids to drink. Don't smoke if you don't want your kids to smoke. As far as sex goes, that's a normal biological function and it would be a form of abuse not to let a child express their age-appropriate sexuality (which is much different for toddlers and children than adults, obviously). 

 

Why throw your PhD around? Think it's going to give you some power? Go back under your bridge.

post #50 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by holothuroidea View Post

 don't drink if you don't want your kids to drink. Don't smoke if you don't want your kids to smoke. 



But that really doesn't make sense to me.  Some things are appropriate for adults and not for children.  I don't want my kids to drink NOW.  I don't care if they drink when they are older.  what am I supposed to do.. not drink until they are adults?  (I actually don't drink at all anymore but that's not the point here).

post #51 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by D_McG View Post



I don't feel guilty about setting 'non negotiable' rules here.  Your opinion isn't really going to affect that either way.  So no need to pretend :)  FTR I don't lie about or hide the TV.  I just have no problem saying "I know better than you and what I say goes" (wrt to TV and some other things).  

 

The idea that we should all give up TV here if my 5 year old had trouble with it is bizarre to me.  For one, he goes to bed at 7pm.  Do DH and I then sit around all evening without TV?  So basically my 5 year old is calling the shots?  That's like a GD parody.  

 

I think calling hiding a TV abusive is kind of insulting to people who are abuse survivors.  

 

 

 

I'm an abuse survivor and I don't feel like I've insulted myself.

 

By all means, take the TV away if your kid has a problem with it. I said that about 10 times. But people were talking about ways to get the TV away from the kid without making any sacrifices themselves (not wanting to play with them, for one) and that's not fair.
 

 

post #52 of 80

You are ridiculous. I am done. This is not a reasonable argument any more.

 

I'm sorry you feel so defensive. Like I said, you can parent however you want, but I'm not going to pretend like I think it's OK  just to keep peace.

post #53 of 80


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by D_McG View Post



I don't feel guilty about setting 'non negotiable' rules here.  Your opinion isn't really going to affect that either way.  So no need to pretend :)  FTR I don't lie about or hide the TV.  I just have no problem saying "I know better than you and what I say goes" (wrt to TV and some other things).  

 

The idea that we should all give up TV here if my 5 year old had trouble with it is bizarre to me.  For one, he goes to bed at 7pm.  Do DH and I then sit around all evening without TV?  So basically my 5 year old is calling the shots?  That's like a GD parody.  

 

I think calling hiding a TV abusive is kind of insulting to people who are abuse survivors.  

 

 



i am going to go away fron this thread, as it is obviously bringing out some inner evil debate fairy in me.

i am an abuse survivor.  i am not offended by calling hiding the tv abuse.  part of the abuse i suffered as a child was physical.  some of it was emotional, and involved being made powerless, through manipulation and through random removal of anything that made me moderately happy.  i liked television, so that was something that was easy to take away from me. 

now, i am NOT saying that people who take TV away from their kids are abusing their kids.  but, i do know that in my childhood, some of the abuse i went through manifested itself by authoritarian dictatorship of my life in every minuscule detail.  all of which really impacted the way i see people in positions of authority and power, and how very important it is to me to raise my child to be a fully autonomous human being with the ability to verbalize resistance and to participate in whatever environment he/she chooses to associate. 

i guess, in short, it can be abuse to wield unrelenting authority in a fascist way, and in fact that was one way in which i experienced abuse.  in my mind, therefore, logically: what is the opposite of unrelenting authority?  democracy, participation in rule-making, freedom to associate and the ability to be autonomous.  so one thing is not the other but by golly, i am very much interested in doing the opposite of what was for me oppression. 

 

i know that's not the goal for everybody, and in most cases, i do imagine not letting a kid watch tv is not harmful.  we don't even have a tv, fwiw. 

 

post #54 of 80

We watched a show (Nature, in fact-- the one I discussed in my pp) about cheetah orphans.  Humans were faced with the task of trying to raise orphaned cheetahs.  They had to convey how to survive to cheetahs as their mother would.  They did this so that the cheetahs would learn how to get their needs taken care of, including staying safe.  There is only one reason to do this: they wanted the cheetahs to survive and thrive.

 

There is NO WAY a mother cheetah would second guess herself about not wanting to boss her cubs around.  She has every right and responsibility to-- in fact, if she does not, they will die.   This is the way it generally is with mammals.  This is why we are with our children for so many years.  It is our responsibility to set limits and give guidelines.  Obviously, for humans, it becomes much more complex-- what exactly is survival?  What do we need to monitor?  My rules are in place to protect my children.  Part of my rules are to protect them from falling into the world of addictions.  My children appreciate it.  We were out all day yesterday and two of my daughters commented, on their own, that they had not used the computer/iPod all day . . .and were happy about that. 

 

Ultimately, my guide in creating rules is that every rule must have a good reason behind it.  While a mother cheetah does not have to go through this process-- her instincts guide her, we do.  However, once we determine that a rule is in place to keep our children safe on ALL levels while also fostering independence, it is our duty to carry out this rule.  Being that we are not in the wild, we do have the luxury of doing this gently-- but we need to do it.


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by holothuroidea View Post

Being alive for 35 years does not make you better than someone who's been alive for 2 or 5. More knowledgeable, sure, but it does not give you a right to boss anyone around whatever "gentle" way you'd find to do it.

post #55 of 80



Quote:

Originally Posted by holothuroidea View Post

You are ridiculous. I am done. This is not a reasonable argument any more.

 

I'm sorry you feel so defensive. Like I said, you can parent however you want, but I'm not going to pretend like I think it's OK  just to keep peace.


I'm not sure what you're so upset about. I'm just trying to understand what you were saying. I brought up the PhD thing and my lack of common sense to explain why I was having such a hard time understanding you. I have to say, I think it's pretty mean to call me "ridiculous" especially since I explained about my disability. I thought people on MDC were more sensitive to disabilities.

post #56 of 80

eligracey, am i correct in my interpretation that you are saying you have a disability that is having a higher education?

if so, do you not realize how incredibly offensive that is?

post #57 of 80

Well, if you'll just go read the thread in the vaccination forum you'll understand more. It was incredibly eye-opening for me to find out that all people with PhDs are completely lacking in ANY common sense. Which makes a lot of sense, now that MDC has opened my eyes to it. I think we need some more aware-ness raising campaigns about it. I mean, if I had known this was going to happen, I'm not sure I would have gone to graduate school. I only tripled my earning capacity, but instead if I had just concentrated harder on manifesting a breadwinner husband I could be a SAHM right now instead of a divorced single mom supporting herself. And my son wouldn't have to be in daycare, and we all know how horrible it is for a child to be cared for by anyone who did not produce the child directly from their vagina. OR, maybe if I had used common sense I could have used homeopathic water to cure my husband of alcoholism and then I wouldn't be raising my son in a broken home. So, yeah, given all the bad things that have happened to my family because of my PhD I really do think this is an incredibly serious problem.  You're being really invalidating of my suffering.

post #58 of 80

OP: set limits, preferably with the help of your son, nip the problem in the bud, if all else fails take away tv entirely for him and explain why (we ended up doing this once and it worked great, DD didn't even miss it).

to the off topic posters: please move your bickering and arguing to pm so we can get back to helping the op and stop having to wade through your squabbles (except for you eligracey b/c your replies are awesome)..


Edited by Honey693 - 7/27/11 at 10:12am
post #59 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeacemongerMom View Post

I'm constantly at odds with my 5 yr old son daily about the t.v. and the computer and recently he's increasingly verbal about wanting a video gaming system for his birthday.  I don't like any of these, especially for use on a daily basis. I know I'm being hypocritical about the computer as obviously I'm using it now but I do use it sparingly and I think make good use of the time I spend with it. I am really against video games of any kind, even non violent, educational types, for children. I don't want to get on my soap box about my opinions about these things but I would love ideas about how to handle this with my son. I admit I am so tempted to go dictator and ban him from it all. I'm afraid that will have the forbidden fruit effect. I want to give him some freedom to make the right choices with them because that seems more practical to me, I can't hide him away from a society that has to have internet connections on their cell phones and apps to get the weather or leave a tip.

 

The problem is, he is addicted, already, it is sad and worrisome. The second he comes through the front door he turns on the tv or asks to use the computer.I will give him a time limit on the computer but he wont get off. It's all he wants to do, it IS all he talks about tv shows and computer games.  It is what he acts out in his play.  I don't know how to or if I should give some choices with him being so hooked. The other thing is he's an only child and I'm sure if he had siblings to play with he wouldn't be quite so quick to turn the to screen for entertainment but there isn't anything I can do about that. I'm not even sure how to talk to him about this. He asked me the other day why I hate television. Sigh. I told him I don't hate it, but they show a lot of things like fighting that are against my values and it's mainly used to sell people things that they don't need. I kind of lied to him, while I don't hate it, I did sugarcoat my feelings a bit.

 

Do I forbid it? Do I lighten up? Do I give him more choices? I just don't know. Any thoughts or advice?




I see this thread has reached 3 pages so I'm sure there's been a lot of advice already. Without reading the other replies first, I'll give you my advice. First, I totally hear that you feel caught between a rock and a hard place with this. On one hand you have an instinct to ban the screen time altogether, but you don't want to create resentment or a "forbidden fruit syndrome"-type situation...(which can be a very real concern, I've seen it happen in my family more than once.)

 

Sounds like to me the most reasonable thing to do, since he DOES really enjoy the games/computer/TV time but is getting addicted in your opinion, (which is the only opinion that matters...you're his mother and YOU are charged by God or the universe or by nature or whatever to protect him, and in your heart you know this), is to set some limits and stick with them. I know you've tried this and I'll address that in a sec. I just want to say now that I wouldn't listen to any voices of any parenting "philosophies" that tell you to ignore your instincts. There's a reason children have parents and your son has you.

 

So you say you put limits on his screen time but he ignores you and keeps going? If you want, get some parental software that is password-activated. I've heard of these things that even have timers built into them (might even be able to get one for free, but not sure on that). If you want some help finding a program of software like that, shoot me a PM and I can dig around for you. My husband has a ton of resources for that kinda thing.

 

Or, you can go the more straight-forward route and set a time....say, an hour a day each on both the computer and the TV (just an example). Give him a 5-10 minute warning when it's about to be time's up....and if he refuses to stop when the hour or whatever is up, switch off the computer. Set a simple password on the PC (this won't require software, usually) so he can only get on when you let him. Same with the TV....when the time is up or his program is over, if he refuses to stop then switch off the TV yourself or unplug it, and tell him that this is non-negotiable. (And to the best of your ability, makes sure he has other options for entertainment that don't require screen time. Does he enjoy reading, or artwork, or riding his bike, or playing basketball outside, or....etc., etc.?) That isn't being manipulative, btw-- it's called parenting. Don't surrender your power; it was given to you for a reason, and that is to provide for and protect your little ones. You DO know what's best in this situation and you know it...and YOU have the power, the authority and the means to monitor and oversee his screen time. I hope that helps, mama. And I know it's MUCH easier said than done.

 

Like I said before, PM me if you want.... :)

post #60 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by hildare View Post





you know this is the Gentle Discipline forum, right?  i'm not sure how "placing strict limitations" and "if he doesn't follow the rules then you limit even more" is gentle or helpful exactly.  can you elaborate on how you "enforce" your "strict limitations?"


Hm. To me, it just sounds like the pp was suggesting a strict and consistent imposition of limits on something that the OP considers harmful to her child So, how are her suggestions not "gentle"? What is your definition of Gentle Discipline? I'm genuinely interested in your response, not being snarky.

 

(And-- a separate point-- if anyone (a mod?) knows what MDC's official definition of GD is, that would be helpful to know, too. I've noticed that there's been a whole lot of speculation and disagreement about this lately. Perhaps some official clarification would help...?)

 

ETA: Still catching up on this thread....Thandiwe, I think your link in post #20 is about the closest thing to what I was asking for above that we have here. Thanks for posting that. Thanks also for your post #16. I agree 100%. :)


Edited by coffeegirl - 7/27/11 at 2:02pm
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