Are there types of "soy" that aren't likely to trigger allergies?

[HeatherB]

I know that, for instance, peanut oil doesn't have proteins in it, so most (if not all) people with peanut allergies are okay eating at places that cook with peanut oil. Is the same true for soy? What about minor ingredients like soy lecithin, which, in the case of some cookies we have, is the last ingredient.

My 8mo clearly has a reaction when I eat edamame (boiled soybeans), so I know I need to avoid soy in general. Without eating pure soybeans, she's not having as much of the SUPER mucousy stools, but she still has occult blood and varying amounts of mucous. I'm thinking I need to avoid dairy at the same time in an effort to give her gut the best chance at healing, then trial dairy (which I am not entirely certain she has problems with).

With soy coming in so many forms, I just want to make sure I'm not killing myself trying to avoid either trace amounts or forms that don't contain any protein, anyway, and wouldn't be harmful. Of course, at the same time, I want to have a good test so we can see if this helps her digestive issues.

Thanks for any help and tips!

[scsigrl]

Like all things allergy, it depends on the child. Some soy allergic people can and others can't have soy oil/lecithin.  I would try a few weeks of strict soy free (meaning the oil and lecithin) and re-evaluate.

[kjbrown92]

And it also depends whether the person is soy intolerant or soy allergic. Soy allergic people MAY be able to tolerate soy lecithin and soybean oil (I have a friend who has IgE allergies to soy, among other legumes, and is fine with those). But some people may not. Even though my son was diagnosed with MSPI (milk soy protein intolerance), personally I think it's a misnomer, because it's not just the protein that he's intolerant to. It's every tiny particle of either. So for him, having a vitamin with soybean oil as the 8th ingredient) would cause a reaction. If he's still got symptoms like occult blood, I'd be staying off all of it until it clears. My son is 11yo, and still intolerant to soy, so I'm not a big fan of it in any form. But yes, it's very hard to avoid, unless you make all your own food.

[SweetSilver]

Originally Posted by HeatherB 

I know that, for instance, peanut oil doesn't have proteins in it, so most (if not all) people with peanut allergies are okay eating at places that cook with peanut oil. Is the same true for soy? What about minor ingredients like soy lecithin, which, in the case of some cookies we have, is the last ingredient.

 

I have allergies to peanuts and soy (both not dangerous but noticeable).  Peanut oil has as much affect on me as peanuts do, or very nearly.  Soy I detect in the tiniest amounts, it seems, but is not an alarming reaction but my body knows it's there.  I get very specific reactions for both, that's how I can tell.

     Refining processes can leave allergic people with different reactions.  I'll use my corn allergy, for example.  Corn syrup is the easiest for me to tolerate, and very coarse corn meal, like you would find under a bagel or pizza.  Cornmeal and corn flour are pretty bad and make me cough and my tongue swell.  Corn starch, not so much but worse than corn syrup, etc etc etc.

     The severity of how you react will be different.  Yes, I notice if soy lecithin is in something, and it's usually soy now even if it doesn't say so.  I would imagine that some forms of soy might cause milder reactions than others, but this is so individual that you can't say that if it works for you it will certainly work for someone else and vice versa.  Allergies are pretty weird.

[HeatherB]

I really appreciate the insight. I'm working at avoiding soy but it's really challenging. I've succeeded in avoiding my normal, weekly intake of heavily soy-laden Asian food (much to my dismay!) in hopes such a large serving would make some difference. It seems that dairy is definitely an issue, too, and that's one I need to buckle down and avoid altogether, too. Unfortunately, it's seemingly even harder than soy because dairy is in all sorts of everyday food items, whereas *major* sources of soy are generally reserved for Asian food (though that's one of my all-time loves!). I am, thus far, cutting out milk and ice cream, though I know full well that she almost certainly needs to me to avoid the beloved cheeses found in so many things. Oh, and butter. Sigh.

Her symptoms are only, as far as anyone can tell, the mucous and occult blood in her stools. The mucous will increase dramatically if I have straight milk (i..e, chocolate milk my DH made as a treat last week) or edamame (which I haven't had in quite a while on her account, but which is surely the cause of her reacting while I was on a strict dairy-free diet several months ago). She may be gassy, but she doesn't get fussy, she pretty much never spits up anymore, has no noticeable changes in sleep, etc. She had consistently stuffy nose for quite a while after birth, but that's gone away. I sometimes think she has allergy eyes, but it's hard to know.

One big problem for me in really cutting everything out is that over the last week or two (when I've been working to avoid soy, in particular), we've been in situations where we had to eat away from home pretty much daily (i.e., a VBS where dinner was served). As I know from previous attempts at elimination diets, it's nigh-on impossible to avoid foods when eating out. I need to figure out what/where I can get DFSF foods for those times when we do need convenience, at least.

Thanks, again!

[SweetSilver]

Your experiences with edamame is interesting.  If you think about it, soy is not consumed (naturally) in it's whole form as often as derivative products, such as tofu and soy sauce.  Tempe, edamame, nato are traditional exceptions.  And I think there must be reason that soy is traditionally served fermented and why edamame are a treat to be eaten in small amounts.  I think you have noticed some quality that edemame has that triggers such a dramatic response in your daughter that might not be happening with other forms of soy.

[HeatherB]

Interesting idea... I had sort of assumed that the more whole, complete forms of the offending substances would simply be more difficult for her. That's why I've been hoping that the more processed forms might not be. I find it very interesting that your experience with corn leaves varying levels of reaction not entirely equal to the amount of processing. I wish it were only one form that caused a reaction in her! As much as I adore edamame, it'd be easier to avoid it than all soy products, entirely.

[scsigrl]

Fermentation does not remove the proteins.  If it is an IgE allergy vs. an intolerance, it still has the offending part in it.  

Dairy is hard and eating out is really difficult with dairy and soy out of it.  You are really better off packing food for yourself and your child.

[HeatherB]

WIth my DD's symptoms, can anyone guess as to whether this is an intolerance or an IgE allergy or...? My 3yo also had issues with mucousy stools and, later, with stools that would cause horrible rashes - open sores and such. I was able to identify yogurt (but no other dairy) and refried beans from two restaurants as culprits, but I never did figure out what, specifically, was the problem. His pedi did basic allergy testing but everything was negative. I wanted to get some other tests done but, now, can't remember which was which.

[SweetSilver]

What kind of testing was done?  Skin prick tests don't work for everybody, but usually the control pricks should indicate that.  There would have been 2: a controlled dose of histamine and the other saline.  If the histamine didn't show as positive, it's very likely that the test was ineffective.  The saline prick gives a baseline reading for interpreting the other responses.

     Mucous and rashes could easily be caused by "just" sensitivities.  Lactose intolerance can cause mucous production in the intestine.  I would say that lactose intolerance produces GI pain, but this isn't always the case, and sometimes the symptoms are mild.  You can be sensitive to almost anything.  I know garlic does a number on my digestion, cooked, raw or however.

     My guess is that you are seeing a sensitivity, not an allergy.  That sounds like I'm saying, "Oh, what a relief!" but I'm not.  Sensitivities can be every bit as troublesome as an allergy.

[kjbrown92]

Skin prick tests aren't that accurate until age 2, they say, so it could still be either. I find dairy easier to avoid because soy is everywhere. Corn is the worst to avoid because it's not a top 8 allergen so it doesn't have to be called out and comes in so many different forms (citric acid, maltodextrin, dextrose, fructose, etc.). I take food with me everywhere for me and my children (I carry a big purse). I carry snacks pretty much all the time, and a meal when I know I'm going to be somewhere. Occult blood means there's inflammation. I know someone who had a son with a milk intolerance and she was sneaking little amounts here and there. She had him scoped, and he had bleeding ulcers all over the place from it. He was 11 months old. So little bits can add up.

[HeatherB]

For my son (now 3), the testing was just a blood test - nothing more. I didn't expect anything, given what I'd read, and sure enough, I was right. But we didn't pursue it further.

Sensitivities aren't really going to show up on tests, are they? I wish it was all easier and more widely understood.

I was shocked to look at some restaurant allergen info sheets and find out how much soy is in things. This is day two of avoiding ALL soy and dairy, not just the obvious stuff. She had a slight increase in mucous the other day and I'm guessing it's from having pizza. I will miss those things! But maybe after she heals up and grows a bit, she'll be able to tolerate things.

[scsigrl]

Originally Posted by HeatherB 
 But maybe after she heals up and grows a bit, she'll be able to tolerate things.

FWIW, with my DD I was off dairy, egg and coffee till she was about 18 months old.  I was out and out of self control after 18 months and had a cookie.  Nothing.  A few days later, some cheese, nothing.  Another few days, egg, nothing.  So It happens!  I know I was so happy when I could start eating "normally" again.  She does NOT have IgE allergies.  DS does have IgE allergies so I never tested those things like I did with her because he had an actual dx and I was scared. Her reactions were different from his from the start though.

[HeatherB]

Originally Posted by scsigrl 

FWIW, with my DD I was off dairy, egg and coffee till she was about 18 months old.  I was out and out of self control after 18 months and had a cookie.  Nothing.  A few days later, some cheese, nothing.  Another few days, egg, nothing.  So It happens!  I know I was so happy when I could start eating "normally" again.  She does NOT have IgE allergies.  DS does have IgE allergies so I never tested those things like I did with her because he had an actual dx and I was scared. Her reactions were different from his from the start though.

That's great to know that it does happen!

[Mylie]

I haven't read all the replies so I hope I am not repeating anything..My L is almost 4 and she is allergic to Dairy,gluten and soy..By heaven's grace I have found that L can tolerate some soy lethicin..don't know why..don't care why...But it opened up a few more foods for us that she loves(fruit rollups,cookies ect...)...And for that I am extremely grateful..Fun foods for her..I tried it by pure accident..All other forms of soy make her poor little body look like hamburger meat(sorry pun not intended)..I bought those fruit rollups by accident one day not realizing they had soy lethicin in them(Fruitabu) and she had eaten darn near the whole box before I realized.glad to cause I would have never had the nerve to try it otherwise...So if you suspect that your child may tolerate something I would try it using exteme caution,don't go fast/wild with it and try one food at a time..Keep a diary so you know if they react...Good luck...

[HeatherB]

Thanks, Mylie! That is very encouraging! Allowing soy lecithin certain would open up an awful lot of options.

At this point, I'm avoiding 100% of soy and dairy and will get her stools tested in another week, before I leave town, where I won't have as full a control on diet. Hopefully we'll see some improvement, though the occult blood tests aren't quantitative, so it may not really be revealing.

[RealFoodMommy]

My friend's son is allergic to soy, and he can only have soybean oil, because it doesn't have the soy protein in it.  Same experience people have with peanut oil.  

You also need to be careful with meat when you have a soy allergy.  Cows and chickens (maybe pigs too?) are given feed with soy in it.  I know several people with soy allergies who can't eat commercial meats.  Go grass-fed and local.

[RealFoodMommy]

Oh, and the same thing with dairy.  People think they have an allergy to dairy too, but it's the soy the cows are eating.

[SweetSilver]

Originally Posted by RealFoodMommy 

My friend's son is allergic to soy, and he can only have soybean oil, because it doesn't have the soy protein in it.  Same experience people have with peanut oil.  
 

I just wanted to add again that *some* people have this experience.  I cannot have soy oil, either, and peanut oil is nearly as bad as the nuts themselves. They may not have protein (don't they?  I don't know whether the do or not) but many, many people are highly allergic to every product.  That's why they have peanut-free flights.  For some people even the smell of peanuts can cause an allergic reaction.  I know when I cook my daughter's oatmeal, if I don't stand back I'll breathe it and my heart will pound and my head will race just as surely as if I ate a big bowl of it myself.

All this goes to show that every individual is very very different in their responses.  I mean, why does my body react to an itty bitty bit of soy lecithin?  Soy is really not that severe for me.  Same thing with xanthum gum which I am oddly sensitive to compared to other corn products.

You just have to try and see.  Though I feel more comfortable about "trying and seeing" for myself than for my daughter.  For her, everything is *out* pretty much.  As she gets older, she can make more of those decisions for herself.

[scsigrl]

Originally Posted by SweetSilver 

I just wanted to add again that *some* people have this experience.  I cannot have soy oil, either, and peanut oil is nearly as bad as the nuts themselves. They may not have protein (don't they?  I don't know whether the do or not) but many, many people are highly allergic to every product.  That's why they have peanut-free flights.  For some people even the smell of peanuts can cause an allergic reaction.  I

Actually it isn't all that common to be allergic to the PROCESSED (not the expensive cold pressed, high end stuff) oil of peanuts and I wouldn't say "many"  are allergic to all sources.  It's actually been my experience that while soy may be an issue, most people can do the oils and byproducts.  It's true that the proteins aren't *usually* present in the processed oils (soy or peanut)

Also, peanut free flights don't truly exist.  I haven't found any airline that will ask other customers to NOT bring/eat nuts on a flight.  So while they may not SERVE nuts on the flight, they aren't truly "free" flights :(