thank you for the advice! :) i'd delete this if I could

[MomofSev]

My son is 4 and we've suspected he is highly capable since several months old. Our public school has a gifted program, but not until 3rd grade. We have decided to get him tested in September so we can know where he is at and advocate for the educational environment he needs.

Besides the gifted program (starting in 3rd grade and going through middle school) there are no other local gifted resources in the area we live in. Not even any support groups that I have found. I am homeschooling through preschool and he will try out kindergarten at the public school, with possibly an IEP if necessary.

Has anyone had their child take the WPPSI? What were your thoughts/experiences?

[ollyoxenfree]

Hi MomofSev and welcome. I don't have any personal experience with the WPPSI. My two dc were both assessed at a later age, when they were 8 y.o's, in anticipation of entering the gifted programs for their school district. Generally, it seems like later testing is more reliable. However, there are several old threads that discuss whether it's worthwhile to test at an early age and you may find some information with a search.  

Is there any particular concern that you have? 

[emmaegbert]

My son took it at age 5 for a school application. It was about 3 hours and administered one on one, without me present (his ease at separation was noted in the report). I got a score report with some comments. I guess the biggest things I got out of it were realizing just how high he tested (I knew he was smart, obviously or I wouldn't have bothered spending $400 on the test...  but he hit the ceiling on several subtests) and seeing something about his strengths and learning style. None of it was really news to me, but I didn't appreciate, I guess, how unusual until I saw the numbers. I do personally have some ambivalence about the whole idea of measuring and ranking kids. (I of course do not compare his test scores with anyone else!). His particular strengths are in the visual/spatial areas where he was basically scoring at the limit of what the test can measure, whereas I think he was 96percentile in the verbal/language parts of the test. (he was 99.7 percentile overall).

Personally I wouldn't have bothered except that it was required for the application to a school, where he ended up getting virtually a full scholarship. They also conducted their own on-site evaluation which was over 2 hours.

Good luck figuring out what will work for you and your son.

[moominmamma]

Another mom whose kids were not tested until much later, if at all, because we've found it quite refreshingly straightforward to accommodate their learning needs without attaching numbers and labels. But I live in a climate (rural Canada) where testing isn't part of the culture the way it is in the US, so your mileage may vary.

I just wanted to say hello and welcome you to the board, and to second the suggestion of looking through some of the older threads here about early testing -- there might be some info there that is helpful to you.

Miranda

[joensally]

When does he start kindergarten?

How expensive is it to test?

Have you talked to the school to find out what they'll accept as far as testing (they don't always accept external testing, or only accept certain tests), and if they'd look at accomodations without testing?

Test results are far more reliable and stable at 8 and over. 

[MomofSev]

My son will not start Kindergarten until 2012-2013. The local school district won't test him until 2nd grade since they only offer the gifted program for 3rd-8th grade.

I know he knows everything he will learn in Kindergarten already. He wants to go to school and my husband doesn't want for me to home school him, so he will be going to public school to try it out. If the test indicates he is going to need something more than what the public school will offer, then there is a private school for gifted children that we would want to apply for.

I guess the test is more for verification and to know exactly where he is at. I have a fear that if he goes to school, he will be bored if it is not challenging enough (like my husband was in school..he got in trouble A LOT because he was bored).

Thank you so much for the warm welcome! I am glad I found this forum! I really have needed support and unfortunately haven't found too much locally. My son is very spirited/strong willed and so it would be nice to know that I'm not alone!

[KCMichigan]

I would look into a few things before you pay privately for testing:

1. does your public school accept outside testing? On the flipside, does the school offer testing (free), if so at what age?

2. Does your state do IEPs for GT, some do and some dont.

3. what do you hope to do with the information? If it is not to get into a program of some sort, research states that is it best to wait until 7+ years to get the most accurate score.

4. Do you  have a private tester that will administer the WPSII for that age bracket w/o a demonstration of need (special needs, school admission, etc)

Honestly, I would wait until he is a bit older and/or you absolutely need to for admittance to programming. If your area has IEPs for GT kiddos, they will likely require their own testing as well. You can advocate for your DS with or without outside testing if needed unless you are trying to fight for an IEP.

Also, talk to your school and see what is offered if you are starting K this year or next. The area we are in does not do GT testing until 3rd....but they have the GT teacher work with select K-2nd graders daily per teacher recommendation on reading and/or math to meet ability levels. Our local school also are very good at differentiating in K-2. We are moving and the area we are moving in are not very good about it- let that also play into your choices.

[MomofSev]

Of course testing age ranges are highly controversial, but I actually read a book by SENG that states it is best to test as early as possible. This ensure that adequate accommodations are made for educational needs early on and prevents early learning of underachievement for those who want to "fit in" in their inappropriate settings.

I live in Washington state and they are fairly gifted/talented friendly, especially near Seattle. Unfortunately I am not in that area so I have to use what little resources are available here, or create an IEP for our son if needed early on. The school he will go to has excellent ratings, but doesn't have the gifted program until 3rd grade. Obviously, with proof from the testing that he needs an IEP, we can make sure that he gets the education he needs before 3rd grade.

[ollyoxenfree]

Originally Posted by MomofSev 

Of course testing age ranges are highly controversial, but I actually read a book by SENG that states it is best to test as early as possible. This ensure that adequate accommodations are made for educational needs early on and prevents early learning of underachievement for those who want to "fit in" in their inappropriate settings.

I live in Washington state and they are fairly gifted/talented friendly, especially near Seattle. Unfortunately I am not in that area so I have to use what little resources are available here, or create an IEP for our son if needed early on. The school he will go to has excellent ratings, but doesn't have the gifted program until 3rd grade. Obviously, with proof from the testing that he needs an IEP, we can make sure that he gets the education he needs before 3rd grade.

I don't want to dissuade you from getting your child assessed. I think that there can be benefits from an assessment, so it's a personal call on whether to do it and at what age. The statements I bolded really struck me though. I'll just say that while it seems like everything should fall nicely and logically into place after an early assessment, life, and schooling, often don't work out that way. 

At your dc's age, my dc didn't need a formal IEP to get accommodations. They were in a multi-age, child-led classroom environment and adjustments were readily made to suit their needs. That lasted until the primary grades, when they entered a typical elementary school with a single age group per grade. They continued to get accommodations like subject acceleration, without us asking for them. When they did get IEPs, after gifted assessment and entry into the gifted program, we found that most of the accommodations that came with the program were sufficient and we didn't need much more in an individualized plan. So I haven't found a huge need or benefit from having an IEP. OTOH, I've known parents who fought for identification and IEPs, and once they had them, continued to fight to get the accommodations implemented in the classroom. Even with the IEPs, there wasn't a lot of benefit because the teachers weren't able (or sometimes willing) to execute the plans. 

I think the IEP process can be very helpful. I think it's important to have the process available and for people to use it, if needed. From my experience, I wouldn't count on it though. Rather, I think finding a good, nurturing school and fostering a positive and respectful relationship with sympathetic, enthusiastic, supportive teachers and administration are the most important things in ensuring a positive educational experience. 

[joensally]

Originally Posted by MomofSev 

Of course testing age ranges are highly controversial, but I actually read a book by SENG that states it is best to test as early as possible. This ensure that adequate accommodations are made for educational needs early on and prevents early learning of underachievement for those who want to "fit in" in their inappropriate settings.

I live in Washington state and they are fairly gifted/talented friendly, especially near Seattle. Unfortunately I am not in that area so I have to use what little resources are available here, or create an IEP for our son if needed early on. The school he will go to has excellent ratings, but doesn't have the gifted program until 3rd grade. Obviously, with proof from the testing that he needs an IEP, we can make sure that he gets the education he needs before 3rd grade.

:)  It's not that controversial.  Kids can have 30 point swings in IQ scores over their childhoods.

I think the point people are making is that if it's expensive to test, you have to pay for it yourself, and you may only be able/willing to test once, make sure that:

-the school won't pay for it;

-that they'll accept the test/tester you employ;

-test when it best serves your child.

Are you planning to test 12 months prior to school entry?

We tested at 5.25 using the Stanford Binet and at not quite 8 using the WISC-IV.  DS loved it both times. 

[joensally]

Originally Posted by ollyoxenfree 

I don't want to dissuade you from getting your child assessed. I think that there can be benefits from an assessment, so it's a personal call on whether to do it and at what age. The statements I bolded really struck me though. I'll just say that while it seems like everything should fall nicely and logically into place after an early assessment, life, and schooling, often don't work out that way. 

At your dc's age, my dc didn't need a formal IEP to get accommodations. They were in a multi-age, child-led classroom environment and adjustments were readily made to suit their needs. That lasted until the primary grades, when they entered a typical elementary school with a single age group per grade. They continued to get accommodations like subject acceleration, without us asking for them. When they did get IEPs, after gifted assessment and entry into the gifted program, we found that most of the accommodations that came with the program were sufficient and we didn't need much more in an individualized plan. So I haven't found a huge need or benefit from having an IEP. OTOH, I've known parents who fought for identification and IEPs, and once they had them, continued to fight to get the accommodations implemented in the classroom. Even with the IEPs, there wasn't a lot of benefit because the teachers weren't able (or sometimes willing) to execute the plans. 

I think the IEP process can be very helpful. I think it's important to have the process available and for people to use it, if needed. From my experience, I wouldn't count on it though. Rather, I think finding a good, nurturing school and fostering a positive and respectful relationship with sympathetic, enthusiastic, supportive teachers and administration are the most important things in ensuring a positive educational experience. 

Yes, yes, yes to the bolded.

Test results and IEPs aren't the solution without willing and able school staff.

[MomofSev]

Very interesting points! Thank you! I didn't realize that some schools can do an IEP without testing. I will have to check on that.

Despite the points that I made, which were brought to my attention from the responses, my husband is still set on getting him tested in September. It will be, just barely, within 12 months of him starting Kindergarten.

I guess I asked this question in vain (about the testing) because I didn't realize it would take a major act to change my husband's mind.

[MomofSev]

I do have a question for those who say to wait until 8 or so to test, what do you do for school until then? Do you just send them to school and hope that the school is sufficient at keeping them entertained? Or do you have an IEP? Or do you homeshool until then? If you send them to school without an IEP, how do you ensure they don't underachieve or get into trouble because they are bored?

[whatsnextmom]

Originally Posted by MomofSev 

I do have a question for those who say to wait until 8 or so to test, what do you do for school until then? Do you just send them to school and hope that the school is sufficient at keeping them entertained? Or do you have an IEP? Or do you homeshool until then? If you send them to school without an IEP, how do you ensure they don't underachieve or get into trouble because they are bored?

I haven't posted to this yet but I can offer our experiences here. In our area, there are no gifted IEP's. Going in with test scores wouldn't have really done anything for us. We just sent them to kindergarten on schedule and their abilities spoke for themselves. DD started extremely advanced (up to 5 grade levels advanced.) Her teacher commented on her abilities within minutes of entering the classroom. Accomodations were put in place immediatly. It did take a few months to really find the right balance but it was found. She wasn't tested until age 12 and in 8th grade. We only did this because of the high school district had a firm "test only" policy to be included in GATE (and only a specific school administered test.) DD's in 10th grade now and doing great. DS was not as advanced and not nearly as driven when he started K due to personality, not ability. First week his teacher commented on him being a real "light bulb" but she didn't even know he could read until end of the year (and *I* knew my child well enough to know this wasn't the teacher's failing... DS has a "why read when you can interact with PEOPLE" mentality.) DS had a fantastic time. He loved the social environment. He loved the recesses, having lunch with friends, going to the library, centers that were too easy but made him feel good because he could do all the work fast and well (and then play.) Accomodations were offered by the principal who knew his levels personally but we rejected them because DS was so happy. Accomodations were put in place in 1st grade when he was "showing his stuff" more and accomodations were needed. He's in 6th grade now and doing great. He was tested in 2nd grade at age 6 because his school tested all kids in 2nd grade. For us, testing didn't tell anyone anything we didn't already know. It was just a piece of paper needed to make it all "legal" at school.

I'm not against testing if there is a real use for the scores. I don't feel just starting kindergarten as a reason to test unless your school does have a gifted program starting in kindergarten. For starters, schools can be really picky about what scores they will accept. They can be very paticular about what items can be included in a child's file. There are districts in our area (including the 6 largest district in the country) that will accept ONLY a school administered test period. Kids age, how they will do on the test can change. We haven't found any GATE program a real "fix." The real and meaningful accomodations happen in the classroom with the regular teacher. They tend to work with a child based on what that child is putting out, not scores.

I'm not going to tell you not to test if you really feel that's in his best interest. I'd just also put my focus on developing a postive work ethic that even when something is easy, we do our best. Test scores or no, in school, your child WILL have to prove themselves on work that is too simple before moving on to more challenging work. Encourage him to bring work to his own level on his own (this is an invaluable skill!) Give him tools for self-entertainment... what can we do if we finish work early? We can read a book, we can draw a picture, ect. Get him comfortable with other adults and allow him to feel that there are others besides mom he can talk to about what he needs. These are skills that served my own kids very well.

[joensally]

Originally Posted by MomofSev 

I do have a question for those who say to wait until 8 or so to test, what do you do for school until then? Do you just send them to school and hope that the school is sufficient at keeping them entertained? Or do you have an IEP? Or do you homeshool until then? If you send them to school without an IEP, how do you ensure they don't underachieve or get into trouble because they are bored?

The thing is, test results do not always equal accomodations, nor does an IEP (those things can be written very loosely). 

I think the best strategy is talk to the schools and get concrete ideas from them about their approach to accomodating gifted kids.  Not just platitudes, but examples.  Not "we differentiate," but an example of how they've done it in the past.  You may be lucky and have a great school with great teachers around the corner, or you may have to look further afield.  Look for a public montessori (not universally great for gifted kids, but many thrive there), a language immersion school, a specialized magnet school.  Test results on file do not mean that the school/teachers can actually or will actually accomodate - you have to find the right environment.

Our son had a horrible kindie year, we homeschooled grade 1, and then we found a multi-age environment for him.  A straight classroom was never going to be a fit for him.  DD did language immersion and a fine arts magnet, and is now homeschooling.

Are you familiar with level of giftedness?  That makes a difference too.

I'm not clear on why you (or your DH) would want year-old testing.  I would recommend talking to the district in the fall once they've settled into the school year and ask about what testing they'll provide, what they'll accept, and what they have to offer.

Unless you've got money to burn, then go for it!  :)  Our testing was almost $2000 each time, so we were strategic in our timing.

[moominmamma]

Originally Posted by MomofSev 

I do have a question for those who say to wait until 8 or so to test, what do you do for school until then? Do you just send them to school and hope that the school is sufficient at keeping them entertained? Or do you have an IEP? Or do you homeshool until then? If you send them to school without an IEP, how do you ensure they don't underachieve or get into trouble because they are bored?

I think that you are labouring under two misconceptions. The first misconception is that test scores and/or IEPs will ensure appropriate accommodations. This forum is full of laments and frustrated posts from parents whose kids have been formally identified as gifted but are not receiving appropriate educations, kids whose teachers have cast them in inappropriate roles, or who are patronizing or belittling, or still thinking within the box, or whose differentiation just falls woefully short of the mark. The second misconception is that test scores are the only reliable route to appropriate accommodations. Any KG teacher worth her salt is going to be differentiating instruction for every child from the get-go. My SIL is a KG teacher, as is one of my closest local friends, and they say that a typical KG class of twenty kids has an up to 5-year spread in abilities from the weakest kid in his weakest area to the most precocious kid in his strongest area. That's a typical class. Meeting each child where he's at and working with that is bread and butter stuff for a KG teacher. By third grade there's much more homogeneity but in kindergarten a massive spread in abilities is the rule. Good kindergarten and first grade teachers are used to dealing with their students as individuals with vastly varying emotional and educational needs. And of course much of kindegarten is (or should be) about play, and creativity, and socializing, and learning the rhythms, routines and expectations of being a school student. I know of many parents of highly gifted kiddos who got excellent educational accommodation in the early years, and had happy kids, with no need for formal identification. 

I would suggest you consider the possibility that testing is neither necessary nor sufficient to ensure appropriate education.

Miranda

[FarmerBeth]

Another rural Canadian piping in, so I do realize that there are some educational differences between our countries.  However - I do think that if you don't want to put in the testing money yet, you can always just introduce yourself to the teachers, let them know what your child's current capabilities are and see if they are willing to give him some somewhat different work if he's bored.  Also, I wouldn't assume that boredom will necessarily be a problem.  He may encounter new ideas if interest, enjoy school from a social angle, fall in love with gym or artistic endeavors, etc.  You can also enrich him so much with what you do at home.  By age three, our daughter was reading fluently, composing small stories in her journal, counting change at the store, etc.  She homeschooled alongside our older son out of choice at ages three and four and started primary operating at a grade four level in language arts and a grade 2/3 level in math.  We didn't test, we just talked to the teacher.  She totally took it in stride and borrowed books from the grade four classroom and home for reading time and asked us permission to teach her some above grade level math.  When the kids drew pictures for reading response, my daughter just wrote alongside the pictures.  And of course, when it comes to projects, a gifted child can always do the same project but in a more in depth way with no educational adjustments at all.  Same for writing - your son can just choose to challenge himself by writing at a more sophisticated level for the same assignment.  If testing makes you comfortable, fine, do it, but you may not know if you really need to until you're already in school.

[ollyoxenfree]

Originally Posted by MomofSev 

I do have a question for those who say to wait until 8 or so to test, what do you do for school until then? Do you just send them to school and hope that the school is sufficient at keeping them entertained? Or do you have an IEP? Or do you homeshool until then? If you send them to school without an IEP, how do you ensure they don't underachieve or get into trouble because they are bored?

Those are all good questions that have kept a lot of parents awake at night. 

I do have a question for those who say to wait until 8 or so to test, what do you do for school until then? Do you just send them to school and hope that the school is sufficient at keeping them entertained?  

This sounds a little like someone is advocating a "do-nothing" approach, which I haven't seen suggested at all. When you have a child attending school, I think it's important for parents to be involved. That can happen at a fairly informal level, though, and that's often preferable. Formal processes can get unnecessarily complicated, involve extra paperwork and timelines that create delays and unexpected consequences. 

Or do you have an IEP? 

An IEP involves a formal process with the school. There can be immense value in going through the process, so I don't think it's futile to attempt it, if that's the path you choose. It provides a framework to consider different aspects of the child's status (academic, emotional, social, behavioural), his/her needs, and how the teacher and the school can provide for those needs. The dialogue, analysis, planning and documentation can be helpful. In the end, though, I sometimes feel like it's an attempt to reduce the art and science of pedagogy to some kind of commercial contract. You can have a wonderfully written descriptive document, but without the applied artistry in the classroom, it may as well be toilet paper.

The thing is, if you have a gifted-friendly school with experienced and informed educators, an IEP probably won't add much to the experience - other than creating a lot of extra paperwork for the teacher to complete.

OTOH, especially if the educators don't understand or "believe in" giftedness, the IEP can sometimes be useful. First, as I said earlier, to set out a roadmap for everyone for planning. Second, if it isn't being followed, it provides a formal basis to appeal to principals, school supervisors, school elected officials and so on to obtain the kind of help the student is entitled to get.  

Definitely research your school system so that you understand it. It's valuable to know what your child's rights are, what options are available, and what is enforceable, in case you need to employ that information. You may be pleasantly surprised though, that a lot can be accomplished without pursuing the official path. 

Or do you homeschool until then? 

Often a good option  . 

If you send them to school without an IEP, how do you ensure they don't underachieve or get into trouble because they are bored?

Well, even with an IEP, you can't ensure that they won't underachieve or get into trouble because they are bored. An IEP won't dictate what kind of attitude a child develops. One disadvantage I've seen with an IEP is that it tends to encourage a kind of "contract" mentality in some parents. The attitude that once the paperwork is signed, it's all up to the educators.  Really though, there's a responsibility on everyone - educators, parents AND student - to create a healthy, positive educational experience. There's a lot of emotional and social scaffolding that can help a child learn fairly early that they can take a lot of responsibility for a lot of their own learning.  

Underachieving and boredom can be big problems, don't get me wrong. If a child isn't engaged at school, then the teachers and parents should be figuring out what isn't working, what is working and how to improve the situation. There are a lot of adjustments and accommodations that can happen without a formal IEP, as long as the school is willing. I guess that brings me back to my original point - the relationship you forge with the educators will be far more important than any kind of official record you create or obtain.  

I really don't want to knock the IEP process or gifted assessment and identification. My own dc have benefited from the process and I appreciate that there is an official recognition of giftedness in our school system. It's important to have a broad perspective on what can be achieved within the school system and how to get there, that's all. 

[ollyoxenfree]

MomofSev, it occurs to me that you might find it helpful to search old threads for conversations about accommodations in the regular classroom, as well as threads about assessments and testing. From time to time, there are discussions about how to keep gifted students engaged at school and create enrichment opportunities. Those discussions might answer some of the questions you've asked - or create a few new questions!  

[Ellien C]

Originally Posted by MomofSev 

I know he knows everything he will learn in Kindergarten already. He wants to go to school and my husband doesn't want for me to home school him, so he will be going to public school to try it out. !

 What is is that you want to get out of school?

For my daughter, it wasn't the kindgergarten curriculum that she benefitted from, but it was the school experience! And she learned a lot. She learned how to get along in school - go through the lunch line with her tray, borrow library books, what happens at recess on the big playground, having a third-grade buddy, raising your hand to go to the bathroom and using one down the hallway and not in her classroom (as for preschool) and there was music, art and phys ed, which was much more formalized than in pre-school. the did line, color and form, she can talk about negative space. for her, she did a fine job exending assignments on her own.

We also learned, in 1st grade for example, that she liked to write a lot, but her handwriting was slower than average, so it took her a really long time to do writing assignments. So for us, at that age, school wasn't about the academics, but it was really learning about being in school. we have GATE testing in kindy, but it doesn't start until the spring semester anyway, so she spend the first half "unenriched" if you want. For us, my daughter got plenty out of the experience beyond the academics. Just thought I would share that.