Majority of my friend's have circumcised their sons....

[Lucy&Jude'sMama]

I really feel strongly that circumcision should be illegal. I think its a horrible horrible mutilation of a healthy body part. At the same time I have so much love for my mommy friends and I do not want them to feel horrible for what they have done to their sons so I've mostly stayed quiet. I tell my opinion if they ask but I don't push them. They've already circumcised their sons so why would I throw it in their faces? I think that's wrong.

However, I had a very hard time when my friend circumcised her 2nd son who is 3 weeks older than my son. I wanted so badly to say something to her but after talking to her a bit about it (in a general way..) I realized that she would not be convinced any other way. Her 1st was circumcised and so would her 2nd. She didn't give any indication that she doubted her decision at all. She even believes her 1st didn't feel anything because he fell asleep... of course I know better, but I really didn't want to be the person to tell her the truth especially after the fact. Not that she would have believed me anyways. She is a good friend, but every time I see her son I feel guilty for not trying to convince her not to.

My partners younger sister had a son a few months after mine. I did try to convince her not to circ. but she basically laughed it off and even when I presented evidence she said it was her partners decision (to take the guilt off her I believe) and they circumcised their son. :-(

Now I have another friend who is due any day with her 2nd son. Her 1st was circ.ed. I don't know if I should say something or if I should just not bother.

All but 1 of my good friends have circumcised their sons. These are not horrible vile people. They are good parents and good friends. All my life I've been friends with people who believe differently than me and I've had great friendships. I've never had a hard time dealing with our different beliefs, but when it comes to circumcision I do. So I've just not talked about it. Well today I shared the Elephant in ther room video on a local mommy site which several of my friends frequent (its how i met most of them). Honestly i'm just hoping to change some minds. 50 people have viewed the post (i did include a warning so that they knew what the video was about). So far no one has commented and i have no clue if anyone has even watched it. BUT I'm just going to remain hopeful that someones mind will change and maybe that person will go on to change someone elses mind... etc.

I really have a hard time understanding why anyone would do this to their sons. I really really can't understand it especially when presented with the facts. If you don't know the facts and just go with what your family/friends/partner says than I understand because you don't know, but when the facts are right in front of you and you still decide to mutilate your son???? I can't comprehend it.

How do you deal with friend's who circ.?

[samstress]

honestly, it's none of my business and it's not really something i feel i have to "deal with".

i have all different kinds of friends with different beliefs on many different subjects.  i love them for many different reasons (none of which are whether or not they have decided to circumcise their sons).  our choice to not circumcise our son was a no-brainer to me, but it's not really my place to judge or questions those who do.

now, on the other hand, if others question our decision to not circumcise our son or judge it or try to tell us why it's bad not to, then i absolutely defend our choice and find it necessary to give them the facts.

[Alenushka]

I have friends who do no vaccinate, co-sleep till 10 etc etc etc. It is none of my business. And, my son's penises, circked or not, are non one's business either. actaully , if you tried to talk to me about my sons this way, I would think it is kind of creepy.

Live and let be.

[Dan Bollinger]

I understand your dilemma. Your friendships are important to you, but so are their sons' welfare. Your quandery is whether or not you should do an intervention. As interventions go, this is a mild one. It's not like you are going to kidnap the kid to protect him! It boils down to having the courage to give your friends information they don't have so they can make an informed decision. Although I'd say they don't have the right to make such a decision, in all practicality they do, at least for the time being until we make male genital cutting just as illegal as female genital cutting.

Approach your friends from the standpoint of having concern for their son. Give them a few points to throw a shadow of doubt on their decision, like, "Did you know? Most parents are saying no. The US circumcision rate has been dropping steadily for the past 30 years and is now 33%."  And, "Circumcised men are 4 times more likely to get erectile dysfunction." Or more to home, "Babies feel pain, as much or more pain than adults. Even with an anesthesia they'll feel pain," or "Circumcision is when pain and sex first meet. The trauma will be permanently imprinted on your baby boy," or "You wouldn't cut your daughter."   

A non-confrontational option is to sit them down in front of computer, laptop, or smartphone and walk them through the Circumcision Decision-Maker process. It will help them get clear on the REAL reason they want circumcision and then give them some expert advice. 

One reason parents circumcise is because they don't know how to care for an intact penis, which is laughable, since no special care is needed and a circumcision requires regular bandage changes for the open wound. The website has some great foreskin information pages including washing instructions.

[Dan Bollinger]

Originally Posted by Alenushka 

I have friends who do no vaccinate, co-sleep till 10 etc etc etc. It is none of my business. And, my son's penises, circked or not, are non one's business either. 

Circumcision--a euphemism for genital mutilation--is the permanent, painful removal of healthy, errogenous tissue with immediate and lifelong consequences. More than 100 American baby boys die each year from it. Circumcised men are 4-5 times more likely to be diagnosed with erectile dysfunction. It is illegal to cut girls, and rightly so. The federal law prohibits even a pinprick to extract a drop of blood, and circumcision is certainly far worse than that. So, this issue IS EVERYBODIES BUSINESS. More importantly, your son should have a say in how his body looks, works, and feels. 

[sosurreal09]

You can NOT compare co-sleeping or not to circ at ALL

[sosurreal09]

OP circ makes me absolutely sick. I think it is just completely disgusting and agree it should be illegal. People are mutilating babies genitals for no damn reason. It makes my stomach turn. Honestly I can't handle people who circ, it's one thing if they did it blindly and regret it but it's another if the are for it and repeat it. I could not be friends with someone who refused to inform themselves about it or who was informed and did it anyway...

[hildare]

you can always just say.. you know, i didn't circ littleone'sname.  let your friend ask you questions.  explain what you found through your research and that it has been no problem for you.  i think if you can make your friends curious about something they might not ever have thought about, then take the opportunity to elaborate, it might sound more like you not being nosy/offering advice, you know? 

[Quirky]

I know exactly where you're coming from. For the parents who have already circed -- obviously it's too late to make a difference. In terms of how to quiet the sadness in your heart about what their sons suffered and will suffer their whole lives -- I think it's perfectly appropriate to feel compassion for those babies, the boys they were, and the men they will grow to be, just as you would feel compassion and sadness for any baby or child abused by a cultural practice that's so accepted that most people within that culture don't view the practice as abuse.

It is perfectly possible for parents to be good, loving, well-meaning parents who subscribe to the cultural beliefs that lead them to harm their children with every good intention in the world, whether it's circumcision of baby boys here, circumcision of baby girls in African or Asian countries, foot-binding (fortunately gone), breast-ironing, refusing to nurse at birth because of fear that colostrum is not good for babies....sadly the list is way too long.

You are not "sticking your nose in other people's business" or at all being creepy by feeling sadness for these boys -- in fact I think it's just another form of cultural silencing for anyone to imply that there's something "creepy" about being concerned for babies' human rights to bodily integrity.

All I have been able to do is try to understand that the cultural forces driving parents to circumcise are just as deep -- and really, just as illogical and primitive, without any rational basis whatsoever -- as with any other cultural practice that objectively speaking is abusive. The intent to abuse isn't there, the knowledge that it's abusive isn't there, but the drive to conform to social norms pushes people to act in ways that are 100% about fears of non-comformity in a society that is very much about conformity no matter our stated ideals to the contrary. When I look at it in these terms it helps me to understand and accept that my friends weren't in a position to break out of these cultural norms -- although I will never accept circumcision as a legitimate parental choice.

All you can do to help babies who have not yet been cut is try to find a way to present information that might help break through these cultural barriers. It won't always work -- I've failed personally many times, especially with family, which has been extremely painful -- but sometimes it works, and sometimes you help save one. It gets easier with practice to come across as presenting good information in a friendly way without putting a whole lot of emotion behind it, which in my experience at least can tend to backfire because people often feel that your anger and judgment about circumcision is directed at *them* rather than at the practice of circumcision itself.

[MeredithA]

OP, I agree with you that circumcision is wrong. The sad thing is, I have 2 boys - both circumcised. I honestly didn't know how painful/traumatic/dangerous the procedure was. I had my 1st son when I was 19. I wasn't married. None of my friends had kids. My doctor said "You're going to have him circumcised, right??" and wheeled my son out of the hospital room and brought him back screaming and cut. The doctor said "It went well. He'll calm down soon". A few years later, I married a wonderful, caring, man. He has always been great with my son. When we got pregnant and found out it was another boy, I told him I didn't want to circumcise this one. I told him about my experience with ds#1 in the hospital and said that not only would I do a natural birth this time, I wanted to leave my child's body as nature intended as well. DH did not agree. DH is circumcised. DS#1 is circumcised, and he didn't want DS#2 to be "different". Additionally, my in-laws really really pressured me. (In-laws are Jewish - DH is not a practicing Jew anymore -- so they really really pressured me!)They said that circumcised boys get less infections and are cleaner etc....and I just caved. But this time I watched the procedure. I watched how it was done and how much is tortured my newborn. I cried for days. I was stricken with guilt. I could not believe that I had made this mistake TWICE! How stupid of me! I am a loving, gentle, attachment parenting, baby wearing, co-sleeping mama. I am a good mother. But I made a huge mistake in allowing my boys to be circumcised. I didn't research it. I just went with what my doctor and family said was best. I didn't have a friend like you to give me the facts. And I regret the decision.

So, I think it is wonderful that you are interested in educating mamas before they make the decision. Mothers who circumcise are not bad mothers and everyone is entitled to their choice here, as circumcision is not currently illegal. If they know more about it, they are less likely to make a decision they'll regret later. 

[Night_Nurse]

Hugs to you MeridithA. I also know many loving mothers who circed their sons, many who didn't know they had a choice. That's why I think it's so important that we collectively speak up, speak out about circ. For some, it may just be posting a link on their FaceBook or Twitter. For some, it may be having a heart to heart conversation in person about it. I think it depends on the person's comfort level.

For me, I often send literature in the mail (or give it in person) to my real life friends having first time sons and then tell them what I witnessed being a nurse (botched circs) and that my own son is intact. For friends who already have sons, presumably circed, I don't push too hard. I usually don't say much but I do post occasional notes and links on FB & MySpace. Anyone who knows me in real life knows how I feel about circ. Sometimes I do give info to friends and family who still circumcise, despite having numerous, factual documents on the harms of circ. It certainly doesn't mean they are bad or non-loving parents because they circ, but it is very difficult for me to "respect their choice to circumcise" after I know they knew all the facts.

OP, it might be that just by posting that video on FB that it will be enough for your friend to explore her options and not circ #2. If you feel comfortable, you might share w/ her a link from MDC about moms who circed first child but not other ones. It may help but it might not. It's been my personal experience that most who circ one or more continue to circ. But of course, there is always the exception.

I'd never think it was creepy that you were worried about another child's penis! Soooooo many people have said, after the fact, they wouldn't have circed if they would have know what it really was and the harm it can cause. You're helping to educate, or at least encourage parents-to-be to research further. There's absolutely nothing wrong or creepy about that! keep up the good work!

[Adaline'sMama]

Im sure this wont be the favorite response, but its my opinion.

I view circumcision as violence. It is genital mutilation without consent. If you cut off the tip of a baby's finger, part of an earlobe, or any other part of the skin it would be considered violence and I have no idea why it is "okay" to cut off the skin on a baby's penis. I believe that parents dont have the right to do this to their children. It would be my business if one of my friends' husband was hitting them, so why isnt it my business when they are cutting on their childs genitals?

That said, there is nothing you can do except present your case. If they are ignorant the facts I am more likely to forgive them, but if they know the facts and they are doing it anyway, to me that is knowledgeable harm to an innocent victim and I judge people who intentionally harm innocent children.

[MeredithA]

In fact, OP, could you post the link to that video you referred to? I'd love to send it to some moms-to-be that I know.

[PuppyFluffer]

In the education work that I do about the harm of circumcision, I say to people "Why do parents circumcise their sons?  Because they love them.  Why do parents leave their sons intact? Because they love them.  The difference between the circumcising parents and the ones who don't is education."  and I go on from there to teach them about the history of circumcision in the American culture, how it became so entrenched based on false health and cleanliness ideas, the function of the foreskin, how we legally protect girls and not boys, how we need to look it from the perspective of the man the baby will become.  Somewhere in that talk, people often begin to open their minds just a little bit to the facts.  If they don't, I have at least planted some seeds.

[MathMomma]

I totally agree with you, PF.  My husband and I were torn about the decision.  I felt that circumcision is a barbaric practice, but my husband was worried that our son would be ridiculed for being different.  We broached the subject in our birthing class.  One of the other expectant fathers happened to be a plastic surgeon.  He said that he was FREQUENTLY called to repair botched circumcisions.  He went on to say that the foreskin is extremely sensitive and that a child experiences tremendous pain during a circumcision.  He felt that there was no reason to circumcise at birth, that if you decide to circumcise, to at least wait a few days until newborn milestones such as nursing had been established.  As parents seeking to make the best decision for our son, we really appreciated this man's candor.  We choose not to circumcise our son (and have since had a second uncircumcised boy).  We are honest with them about our reasons for our decision and why they looks different than their friends (boys will always compare ;-).  It's never been an issue and I'm confident we made the right decision.  I'm very thankful that the doctor was honest and didn't fear sounding "creepy."

[mare54]

Thanks so much for sharing.  I am a mom who (32 years ago)  caved in to my husband at the time, and didn't protest his decision to "make his son look like him".  I said no to circ, but I was weak and didn't want confrontation (after all I had just given birth and was still at the hospital).  I was horrified when they took my baby and brought him back shaking and crying and then I saw his little penis.... I could not believe I let them all do that to my baby.  I can still hear him crying and I still feel guilty.  Fast forward.... my two daughters had baby boys and both of them agreed to the circ, despite my opinions.  the first one said she thought a natural penis looked disgusting....what a shameful reason!  the second one let her husband make the decision and he had one. Looking at that little abused penis made her sick, and then it had some problems initially which upset her.  I reminded her of my opinions, but didn't want her to feel guilty so I kept it brief. What was done was done and there was no going back.  I do think she would think twice if she has another boy, but I am guessing she will again allow the husband to decide.  It makes me sad.  I look at the birth pictures and see such a beautiful, perfect little human being..... and when I change his diaper, I am sad and quietly apologize to him for the ignorance of society.  I just hope in some way he hears me and feels my love for him.  I asked my daughter if in her prenatal class or childbirth class, was she and her husband educated on the facts and fiction of circumcising and she said NO.  I really feel that is should be covered in those classes and a video should be shown along with the birth videos.  I think it is ridiculous that parents are not educated about circumcision and why it is so needless.   If there was more attention paid to the down sides of a circ later on in life..... I think men would absolutely NEVER support a circ!  By circumcising a baby boy, he will grow up to very possibly have sexual dysfunction that could affect his relationship.  Why would any parent want to make that a possibility for their child?  But it's true, by cutting off an important part of his sexual anatomy, they are altering the natural functioning of his penis.  It might not show up until later, but it usually will in his forties or fifties.  By cutting off the foreskin, the glans is unnaturally made into an external organ.  Over time, it becomes less and less sensitive, which can wreak havoc in his sex life!  Why would anyone want this?  It is so unfair.  Circumcision is a violation of a baby boys human rights, and NO ONE has the right to do this to a baby.  If they want one later, then so be it, they can always get one, but at least it would be their choice when they are an adult.  My guess is that very few men would do it!  My opinion is that it is everyones responsibility to make efforts to stop such a barbaric procedure, even if it is uncomfortable to do that. It will take many voices and education to stop this horrific practice.  Let your voice be one of those.

[kittywitty]

Originally Posted by Dan Bollinger 

Circumcision--a euphemism for genital mutilation--is the permanent, painful removal of healthy, errogenous tissue with immediate and lifelong consequences. More than 100 American baby boys die each year from it. Circumcised men are 4-5 times more likely to be diagnosed with erectile dysfunction. It is illegal to cut girls, and rightly so. The federal law prohibits even a pinprick to extract a drop of blood, and circumcision is certainly far worse than that. So, this issue IS EVERYBODIES BUSINESS. More importantly, your son should have a say in how his body looks, works, and feels. 

I agree.

OP, I feel your pain. My ds is circ'd before I knew anything about it. I live with that guilt and horror everyday. I have desperately tried to convince friends not to circ, but to no avail.

[Adaline'sMama]

Originally Posted by MathMomma 

I totally agree with you, PF.  My husband and I were torn about the decision.  I felt that circumcision is a barbaric practice, but my husband was worried that our son would be ridiculed for being different.  We broached the subject in our birthing class.  One of the other expectant fathers happened to be a plastic surgeon.  He said that he was FREQUENTLY called to repair botched circumcisions.  He went on to say that the foreskin is extremely sensitive and that a child experiences tremendous pain during a circumcision.  He felt that there was no reason to circumcise at birth, that if you decide to circumcise, to at least wait a few days until newborn milestones such as nursing had been established.  As parents seeking to make the best decision for our son, we really appreciated this man's candor.  We choose not to circumcise our son (and have since had a second uncircumcised boy).  We are honest with them about our reasons for our decision and why they looks different than their friends (boys will always compare ;-).  It's never been an issue and I'm confident we made the right decision.  I'm very thankful that the doctor was honest and didn't fear sounding "creepy."

And, just to be clear, its really unlikely that your child will look different from most of his friends. Depending on where you live, the rates vary, but in 2009 the circ rate was only 32%. That means that currently there will be fewer boys in the locker room in 2020 that ARE cut than those who arent. So, even though many men still worry that their sons will look different from everyone else, that is really unlikely. Its more likely for a circumcised boy to be the odd guy out.

[EdzMommy]

My hubby and I had many conversations regarding circumcision during my pregnancy with our son.  He's Eastern Orthodox and isn't circ'ed.  My parents really pressured us into circumcision...they brought up infection, looking different, etc.  My hubby and I are both physicians, and we really struggled with literature supporting both arguments.  

Well, our son came 7 weeks early and spend a month in the NICU.  We still hadn't completely decided what to do...the nurses, neonatologists, med students, and what seemed like even the janitors kept telling us that our son would be circ'ed two days before leaving.  I guess everyone assumed that every boy should and would get a circumcision.  One day, both of the boys on either side of my son's bassinet came back from their circumcisions crying UNCONTROLLABLY.  They were miserable.  Seeing that was enough...I felt sick and violated for those babies.  As a result, we did not have our son circumcised.  I'm so glad we spared him the misery and mutilation.  He's two now...no infections so far.  My hubby and I still get a lot of unsolicited comments from my mother and her friends...but my conscience is clear knowing that I saved my son from that agony.

And as a physician, I've seen a ton of botched circumcisions.  Many of those baby boys have to come back to the OR several times to repair the damage.  Imagine your son needing skin to be taken from his leg or abdomen to make a graft for his penis.  Most circumcisions are done by OBs, not pediatricians or pediatric surgeons or pediatric urologists.  Nothing against the OBs, but they are specialists in the female reproductive system, not males'.

[To-Fu]

Originally Posted by Adaline'sMama 





And, just to be clear, its really unlikely that your child will look different from most of his friends. Depending on where you live, the rates vary, but in 2009 the circ rate was only 32%. That means that currently there will be fewer boys in the locker room in 2020 that ARE cut than those who arent. So, even though many men still worry that their sons will look different from everyone else, that is really unlikely. Its more likely for a circumcised boy to be the odd guy out.

And what's more, why do we worry about maintaining similar appearances when it comes to penises bot not other physical aspects?  It seems like such a strange preoccupation to me.  If we took action on all the physical differences that provoke kids to mock each other in locker rooms and school hallways, we'd all be homogeneous and surgically altered!