When other people's kids won't listen to you...

[crunchy_mommy]

...what do you do?

Example from today:

We were at the children's museum & 2.5yo DS's favorite thing is the stationary bike, he went over and started playing with the pedals and watching the gears. A few seconds later, an older boy came over (maybe 7yo?) and said he wanted to ride the bike. I said, "DS is playing with it right now, he will be done soon and then you can have a turn." Well, the kid just hopped on to the bike and nearly hurt DS, I asked him to please get off and wait 'til DS was done, & he wouldn't so I finally pulled a disappointed DS away and told him some kids don't follow the rules so we'd have to play with something else. I'm pretty sure that's not how I was supposed to handle it but I didn't know what else to do, it wasn't like DS had been monopolizing it and the kid's parents were nowhere around and I was just pretty annoyed because I guess I figure a 7yo should understand basic social rules and if he didn't, maybe he needs more parental supervision than other kids his age??? Yes, I know, that's probably very judgmental of me. But this is not the first time something like this has happened & I would love to know how you all would handle it!!

[APToddlerMama]

I think you handled it perfectly.  There isn't much else you can do with someone else's kid.  Unfortunately, it seems to happen more than it should. 

[zebra15]

Well from a different view. My kid is older and probably would do about the same thing.  He would see a little kid playing near or around a toy/game he wanted to use.  Your child was not on the bike but rather touching/exploring the bike.  My kid wouldn't really comprehend that was 'using' the bike per se.  So in saying 'hey I want to ride the bike' he is also giving a warning to watch out to the little guy (who in his mind isn't using the bike).   Even if another parent says the little kid is using the bike, on older kid just sees a little kid messing around and not riding the bike.

The big kid is really only going to pedal for a minute or to then get off and go do something else anyway.  yes your kid was there first, however he had a turn. seconds, minutes, whatever.  Kids museums on summer break can be very busy places.

Not that it matters but my kid is 10 and NT.

[crunchy_mommy]

Well the bike is on a very small platform and DS was on the platform so I feel like it was obvious he was using it (and he was actually about to go on it, with help, but the kid jumped up and nearly hurt him). I mean, I sort of get what you're saying but not really. Most kids I know (beyond toddler age) understand turn-taking much better than that and wait for the other kid to finish (patiently or impatiently)... I don't know, every once in a while a kid leaves a bad taste in my mouth, although the annoyance is more directed at the parent... But really, I don't expect the kid to wait for 10 minutes while DS gets his fill or whatever. I do expect him not to step on my kid or push him out of the way and that he wait like 1 minute or verbally assert himself or something. It's not being annoying or rude that gets to me, it's the physical invasion of space and all.

[4evermom]

Originally Posted by crunchy_mommy 
 I do expect him not to step on my kid or push him out of the way or be quiet & patient, just that he wait like 1 minute or verbally assert himself or something.

Reasonable expectation.  But unfortunately many kids are used to needing to be aggressive to get a turn, maybe especially if they are usually in a group situation (with siblings or daycare or school) vs only children rarely in groups.  Ds used to have problems getting turns at museums because he wasn't used to inserting himself into a group but the other kids were usually pretty responsive to me declaring whose turn it was.  Not really the same situation but maybe where the other kid was coming from, being used to being a "self advocate" for getting his turns.  I find myself explaining to ds that some kids are still developing impulse control at 6-8-10+ when we run into kids that can not leave something alone (like knocking something down before ds can finish setting it up over and over and over again).  My ds is great at sharing and working together with kids so it isn't because he's monopolizing.  The mom at the most recent incident eventually came and took her son away.  She seemed to know he needed more guidance even though she wasn't nearby for a good while.  It's frustrating but I keep emphasizing some other kids have hard times with certain things even when they are older.  I want ds to be tolerant of kids who are different, not be hard on them if they seem over focused on one aspect or can't wait as long as he hopes.  I'll help with communication just to make sure that the lack of it isn't the problem.  He knows we can stay as long as we want when we go to the museum and he'll get another turn (most people come and go faster) without the kid in question.

But my ds is much older.  When he was 2-4, I'd do a certain amount of anticipation of physical encroachment and get my body positioned to block other kids if I needed to.  Most older kids are careful of little ones, IME, so I probably would have done the same as you, not expecting it in your situation.

[minkin03]

Originally Posted by crunchy_mommy 

Well the bike is on a very small platform and DS was on the platform so I feel like it was obvious he was using it (and he was actually about to go on it, with help, but the kid jumped up and nearly hurt him). I mean, I sort of get what you're saying but not really. Most kids I know (beyond toddler age) understand turn-taking much better than that and wait for the other kid to finish (patiently or impatiently)... I don't know, every once in a while a kid leaves a bad taste in my mouth, although the annoyance is more directed at the parent... But really, I don't expect the kid to wait for 10 minutes while DS gets his fill or whatever. I do expect him not to step on my kid or push him out of the way and that he wait like 1 minute or verbally assert himself or something. It's not being annoying or rude that gets to me, it's the physical invasion of space and all.

I can definitely understand your frustration as I have been in similar situations. I think you handled it as best you could. I don't think it really matters whether or not your ds was just touching it or actually on it. It was his turn with the bike and the 7 yo should have waited. I have a dd who just turn 8 a few days ago and a 5 yo and while they may be rude to each other on occasion they would never be pushy like that with a little kid, especially a stranger. That said there will always be kids/people who will be rude and pushy to others. The way I handle it with my older kids is to talk to them about how it made them feel in hopes that they will not treat others disrespectfully. My favorite saying to them is "if you want to have friends you have to be a friend".

[JBaxter]

I can totally see my 7 yr old doing the same thing.   I would say something to him if I were there but ( knowing him) if a child was just flipping peddles then he wasn't "using" the bike he would be just flipping peddles.   Im not saying it's right but I can also see were the other child was coming from.
 

Originally Posted by zebra15 

Well from a different view. My kid is older and probably would do about the same thing.  He would see a little kid playing near or around a toy/game he wanted to use.  Your child was not on the bike but rather touching/exploring the bike.  My kid wouldn't really comprehend that was 'using' the bike per se.  So in saying 'hey I want to ride the bike' he is also giving a warning to watch out to the little guy (who in his mind isn't using the bike).   Even if another parent says the little kid is using the bike, on older kid just sees a little kid messing around and not riding the bike.

The big kid is really only going to pedal for a minute or to then get off and go do something else anyway.  yes your kid was there first, however he had a turn. seconds, minutes, whatever.  Kids museums on summer break can be very busy places.

Not that it matters but my kid is 10 and NT.

[brackin]

I agree with this.  My children are the same:  They may annoy one another and try to take things from one another at home, but they do understand that that is not acceptable behaviour and would never act that way to a stranger or even a friend.  I know that it's judgmental, as OP said, but I find it grating when older children are pushy and rude, and mostly assume that their parents are not supervising carefully or do not care how their children act.  I don't know how you could've handled it differently, OP.  I had to repeatedly ask unsupervised children at the pool the other day to please stop hitting my children and others with hard foam boards.  

Originally Posted by minkin03 

I can definitely understand your frustration as I have been in similar situations. I think you handled it as best you could. I don't think it really matters whether or not your ds was just touching it or actually on it. It was his turn with the bike and the 7 yo should have waited. I have a dd who just turn 8 a few days ago and a 5 yo and while they may be rude to each other on occasion they would never be pushy like that with a little kid, especially a stranger. That said there will always be kids/people who will be rude and pushy to others. The way I handle it with my older kids is to talk to them about how it made them feel in hopes that they will not treat others disrespectfully. My favorite saying to them is "if you want to have friends you have to be a friend".

[hopefulfaith]

I think you handled it just fine.

If the parents are present, I tend to defer and let them handle it.  This is usually for younger ones, whose parents are monitoring them (usually) closely.

If the parents are gone, I treat other people's children the same way I would tell my own:  "Please don't do that.  (ds) is using that right now, but he will be finished in just a few moments.  Thanks!".  I try to walk the friendly/firm line.  Most kids respond well to it.  The ones that don't are the same ones who are rude to their own parents and sibs, I've discovered.

[prothyraia]

Originally Posted by JBaxter 

I can totally see my 7 yr old doing the same thing.   I would say something to him if I were there but ( knowing him) if a child was just flipping peddles then he wasn't "using" the bike he would be just flipping peddles.   Im not saying it's right but I can also see were the other child was coming from.
 

I totally understand this- but the OP evidently said directly to the child "DS is playing with it right now, he will be done soon and then you can have a turn".  Which means the issue isn't what the kid did or didn't think the younger child was doing, but the fact that he completely ignored her (hence the title of the thread). 

[zebra15]

Have you been to a kids museum on summer break or any time?  Its mayhem in there so I think any kid, other then maybe your own is going to hear you let alone respond to you is quite presumptious ,   I guess it just doesn't bother me, when I'm out and about anymore what other kids do/do not.  It's not my place to get other kids to listen to me.  I never really took that role in DS's upbringing.  

There are a million and one ways to parent a child, most parents are going to do so differently than you.  And yes most kids are going to flat out ignore other adults.
 

Originally Posted by prothyraia 

I totally understand this- but the OP evidently said directly to the child "DS is playing with it right now, he will be done soon and then you can have a turn".  Which means the issue isn't what the kid did or didn't think the younger child was doing, but the fact that he completely ignored her (hence the title of the thread). 

[Everrgreen]

I had a situation once with a kid who was not listening to me and told him I was going to have to speak to his mom about his behaviour.  That did the trick.  In my situation I was at a playground and this boy and his friend decided my 2 year old son was the evil bad guy who they were pretending to shoot at and scare away from everywhere on the equipment my son went.  At first I just led my son away from them but they kept following us.

[4evermom]

Originally Posted by zebra15 

Have you been to a kids museum on summer break or any time? 

Speaking of which, many museums have one day a week where they don't schedule any groups.  Seems to be Mondays at the places that do it.  Since our schedule is flexible, I try to make that the day we go to a museum.

[One_Girl]

Were you firm or wishy washy in your tone?  If it sounded like you were asking or not serious to the child then they probably didn't even register what you said.  Seven is still young for social norms, and really I think at that age kids are much more prone to trample over others and not care because they are used to the free for all recess periods where kids mob around near and almost on top of each other.  The child probably didn't even think about almost hurting your child as a problem because it was just an almost, a fairly typical near miss in the day of an elementary school age child.  In the future I suggest using a firm tone and being clear about your son's intentions.  Even then a child who doesn't know you probably isn't going to listen to you, your own child probably doesn't listen every time so you can't expect a child who thinks you are a stranger (one who they probably aren't supposed to talk to) to listen to you in a situation where they see their choice as completely acceptable.

[ElliesMomma]

the other thing you could do is use your body to make it impossible for the older kid to jump on the bike. not touch the kid in any way, and not be aggressive about it. but if you see the situation about to transpire, maybe you could have picked up your son and let him "ride" it for a minute until the older kid lost interest in waiting and/or straddled the bike yourself for a second to show that it wasn't "open" for use. the kid was clueless. unfortunately i see that a lot in young boys. a similar aged girl would *likely* have been more sensitive to the needs of a toddler, IME. of course there are always exceptions and i shouldn't make a blanket statement. just my observation.

[crunchy_mommy]

Yeah I guess I should have found a way to physically block the kid. Didn't think of that. I think I was pretty firm in my tone but I also tend to always have a 'friendly' tone to my voice so maybe that's the problem... most kids do seem to a friendly, "He's using it, one minute please!" or whatever, so I wasn't exactly anticipating the trouble.

It's really not a big deal, it's more that I just wanted to figure out the best way to handle it if (when!) it comes up again, because DS is extremely shy/anxious/etc. and seems to have no ability to stand up for himself except with close friends, and I don't want him to be bullied and all, but I don't want to make a big deal over, well, a bike!! And I don't want to over-parent, of course, just occasionally stand up for DS so he doesn't ALWAYS get trampled.

For the record, this is a pretty small children's museum and it was busy time but not really mobbed and the area we were in was not really crowded at all.

On the bright side, 2 older boys (5yo?) later involved DS in a construction game they were playing and even let him be the driver.

[MJB]

That's exactly what I would have done. I have two school-aged boys who would never act like that, but unfortunately we encounter rude children on a fairly regular basis. I have a pretty stern voice that works about half the time when I speak to poorly behaved kids, and if not, I ask where their parent is and that works with about half of the persistently bad kids. If not, we leave.

Your son is also at the age where you can teach him to speak up for himself, and back him up if he is ignored. 

[NiteNicole]

I will get between my daughter and another kid and say, "Where is your grown up?"  because really?  I'm just not putting up with that.  I don't let her knock smaller kids off of things, so I'm not going to let bigger kids do it to her.  Her "turn" is not over just because another kid turns up.  Why yes these places ARE busy in the summer, what a good reason for children to know they should wait their turn.  I am always polite, I am not threatening.  I don't let my daughter monopolize anything and MOST children won't listen when she says, "it's my turn, I'm almost done" but they do listen when I say the same.  On the rare occasion that they don't, I will step in.

We were at an aquarium last year and she had waited her turn to get into one of those tanks where you can pop your head up inside and look around.  A couple of boys (I'm guessing about 10 and 12) ran in and PUSHED her out the other side.  Oh hell no.  Where are the parents?  Sitting down running their mouths and watching the whole thing.  We had to have a little talk about that.

I think some parents get lazy when their kids are the  big kids.  You know yours is probably not the one who is going to get hurt so you take this as a chance to relax and let someone else deal with it.  Well, I am someone else and you might  not like how I deal with it.

[NellieKatz]

You go, girl!   :-)

Actually I was just having a conversation the other day that touched on this. I said to another mom (at the playground) "when he was younger, I'd worry that the big kids would accidentally knock him off the playground equipment; now he's the big kid and I worry that he's going to knock one of the little ones off!"  It's always something. 

Though I watch him these days at the playground, it's less frequently, because frankly he needs less supervision. He's gotten really good at resolving conflicts, playing fairly etc. He's a homeschooler so all his playground experiences always have a parent in the vicinity, but at some point he'll be too old for that, so we're gradually lessening our involvement. It has to be that way. But I wouldn't lessen my presence & involvement if I didn't see that he was indeed learning how to behave properly with other kids. If I saw him pushing around a little one, I would take that to mean I needed to be more involved until he had learned & could be trusted. It's only natural.

The bit with "have you seen the museums? it's mayhem in there!" is not a valid excuse. I think it's a shame that kids aren't taught manners very much these days, because in large groups like that is when you really NEED those manners to kick in. Otherwise it's a nightmare. We hate crowded, noisy museums.

Originally Posted by NiteNicole 

I will get between my daughter and another kid and say, "Where is your grown up?"  because really?  I'm just not putting up with that.  I don't let her knock smaller kids off of things, so I'm not going to let bigger kids do it to her.  Her "turn" is not over just because another kid turns up.  Why yes these places ARE busy in the summer, what a good reason for children to know they should wait their turn.  I am always polite, I am not threatening.  I don't let my daughter monopolize anything and MOST children won't listen when she says, "it's my turn, I'm almost done" but they do listen when I say the same.  On the rare occasion that they don't, I will step in.

We were at an aquarium last year and she had waited her turn to get into one of those tanks where you can pop your head up inside and look around.  A couple of boys (I'm guessing about 10 and 12) ran in and PUSHED her out the other side.  Oh hell no.  Where are the parents?  Sitting down running their mouths and watching the whole thing.  We had to have a little talk about that.

I think some parents get lazy when their kids are the  big kids.  You know yours is probably not the one who is going to get hurt so you take this as a chance to relax and let someone else deal with it.  Well, I am someone else and you might  not like how I deal with it.

[crunchy_mommy]

Originally Posted by MJB 

Your son is also at the age where you can teach him to speak up for himself, and back him up if he is ignored. 

His is in EI for social/emotional delays (among other issues) and he has... selective mutism, I guess... He cannot speak in many situations, even when prompted, he just shuts down. He can't even say "hi"...

Originally Posted by NellieKatz 

The bit with "have you seen the museums? it's mayhem in there!" is not a valid excuse. I think it's a shame that kids aren't taught manners very much these days, because in large groups like that is when you really NEED those manners to kick in. Otherwise it's a nightmare. We hate crowded, noisy museums.

Yeah... DS & I both gravitate to the quietest areas of the place (which sometimes means we sit in the corner reading books for an hour...) I don't really see how the place being crowded means kids get a free pass to be rude etc.
Edited by crunchy_mommy - 7/23/11 at 8:22am