When other people's kids won't listen to you... - Page 2

[minkin03]

Originally Posted by NellieKatz 

The bit with "have you seen the museums? it's mayhem in there!" is not a valid excuse. I think it's a shame that kids aren't taught manners very much these days, because in large groups like that is when you really NEED those manners to kick in. Otherwise it's a nightmare. We hate crowded, noisy museums.

I agree, just b/c it's crowded doesn't mean all manners need to go out the window. If I had a child that I know had a tendency to be pushy and rude I would be helicoptering over them and using this as an opportunity to teach them to use their manners. 
 

[NellieKatz]

I totally agree and have experience with this. It's not that my kid would get arbitrarily pushy and rude, but he's so sensitive, that loud, chaotic places were triggers for him, and it became SO much harder for him to control himself. So if we were in those situations I would be extra-present and extra-aware (or avoid them altogether if possible)
 

Originally Posted by minkin03 

I agree, just b/c it's crowded doesn't mean all manners need to go out the window. If I had a child that I know had a tendency to be pushy and rude I would be helicoptering over them and using this as an opportunity to teach them to use their manners. 
 

[Storm Bride]

Well, ds2 could be that boy, which is mortifying. I try to stay on him at places like that, but I also have dd2 to monitor, chase, etc. However, ds2 is usually pretty good with younger kids.

It's very frustrating when kids just ignore you, and I try to stay close to ds2 for exactly that reason. He does mostly listen to other people, but if he's having one of his...things...then he probably won't, so I need to get in there and deal with him.  However, if he starts acting that way in a busy place (museum, aquarium, etc.), I usually remove him. There's no way I'd allow him to assume the two year old wasn't really playing with it, or just "not hear" the mom. That's unacceptable behaviour and totally not okay. I don't care if he thinks the little boy is using it properly or not - my kids are expected to be more understanding with littles, not less so! DS2's issues don't give him a free pass to be inconsiderate of littler kids.

However, I've only ever been around a handful of children who would act this way. (DS2 is one of them, which sucks.) I don't think it's normal, to be expected, or excusable with "it's crowded".

[aparent]

  I think part of the problem is that the older boy is

well socialized and understands parents generally

do not exert authority over the children of other

parents. I think in the fifties parents were not so

individualistic in their parenting and could more easily

discipline another parent's children. I recently watched an

old movie wherein a parent cuffs the child of another

parent (something I do not think is a good thing to do).

When the child tells his parents they remark he's lucky

considering what they would of done to him. Any sort

of action with another parent's child nowadays might

cause the disciplined child's parents to freak out.

  I also think this more individualistic parenting divides

and conquers us giving corporations and others the power

to manipulate the nation's children with no coherent

parenting group to even object. Seniors who have a vote

have the AARP. Voiceless children have no organized

group to protect them.

[NiteNicole]

It's not "discipline" to keep another child from running over yours.  It's only discipline if you decide to put that other child in time out or something.  Saying, "You have to wait" and getting between that child and yours is NOT discipline. 

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by Storm Bride 

Well, ds2 could be that boy, which is mortifying. I try to stay on him at places like that, but I also have dd2 to monitor, chase, etc. However, ds2 is usually pretty good with younger kids.

yeah, you never really know what is going on with another child or with their parent or with the other kid(s) that the parent is also responsible for.

When I read the thread title, my first response was "it depends."  There are times that I am responsible for other people's kids and they have to listen to me. They are at my house or out with me and my kids without their parents, for example. I've been a girl scout leader.  In situations like that, I am responsible and I have authority.

I'm also a playground monitor at my kids school and the school policies are VERY specific about what parent volunteers can do as far as disciplining children. I can tell kids to stop doing what they are doing, I can send them inside, or I can have a teacher deal with them. That's it. That is the exact limit of my authority.

In situations like the OP describes, the bottom line is that you don't have any authority over that child. You can say what you think, but they don't have to listen. Their parents might have a different view, such as feeling that your child could play in a toddler area and that their child has a *right* to play "the right way" on the bike. You don't ANY authority over the kid. He doesn't have to listen to you.

I think the OPer handled the situation well. The best we can do in such situations is to keep our kids safe and be polite. And if you find another child rude, just let it go. It's a small problem as problems go.

Getting into a power struggle with a child you don't know over a toy is a little goofy. I have a kid on the autism spectrum who easily passes for neuro-typical. You have no idea what is going on with other kids you meet when you are out and about.

[jeslynn]

I think you handled it wonderfully! I tend to freeze up when those situations arise.:(

[serenbat]

It's not "discipline" to keep another child from running over yours.  It's only discipline if you decide to put that other child in time out or something.  Saying, "You have to wait" and getting between that child and yours is NOT discipline. 

exactly!  regardless of what might or might not have been going on with the other child or the child's parents

the OP did just fine - IMO

[waiting2bemommy]

Originally Posted by zebra15 

Have you been to a kids museum on summer break or any time?  Its mayhem in there so I think any kid, other then maybe your own is going to hear you let alone respond to you is quite presumptious ,   I guess it just doesn't bother me, when I'm out and about anymore what other kids do/do not.  It's not my place to get other kids to listen to me.  I never really took that role in DS's upbringing.  

There are a million and one ways to parent a child, most parents are going to do so differently than you.  And yes most kids are going to flat out ignore other adults.
 

I disagree. I was raised, and my kids are bewing raised, to show respect to other adults. If anything, growing up I was *more* compliant with other adults than with my own mom! I would be mortified if someone made a reasonable request like that of my ds and he ignored them. And I'm not saying it doesn't happen, and I have plenty plenty plenty of issues with ds when we go out in public, but I make it a point to correct him and apologize to the other party, be it adult or child. To me, to not expect a child to follow directions (within reason) from another adult is making an excuse. I'm not saying they are always going to behave the way we want, BUT if you have a kid, like mine, who is inclined to be wild/antsy/not listen well, then as much as it sucks you need to stick to your kid like glue or at least be within eyeshot in case you need to intervene. I too would wonder about a parent whose 7 year old was unable or unwilling to follow the direction "my kid was here first, please let him finish before you start playing." That's really not that hard.

ETA: I can't multi-quote but someone upthread mentioned ahving a child on the autism spectrum who looks NT. My kid has a legitimate, documented behavioral problem and is on the spectrum as well, but he also doesn't look different in any way. Therefore I would not hold it against someone if they told me child, without knowing his issues, "you need to stop that" or whatever. He probably DOES need to stop. Of course there are things he can't help, like sensory issues, but his diagnosis doesn't give him a free pass to bulldoze over the other kids.

[Linda on the move]

Zebra15 -  <<There are a million and one ways to parent a child, most parents are going to do so differently than you.  And yes most kids are going to flat out ignore other adults.>>
 

waiting2bemommy - <<I disagree. I was raised, and my kids are bewing raised, to show respect to other adults. If anything, growing up I was *more* compliant with other adults than with my own mom!>>

I agree with Zebra15, and wouldn't want my kids to be "compliant" with adults they do not know.  That's just icky.

The bottom line is that no matter how you think other kids ought to behave or how other parents should deal with their kids, there will most likely be moments when, just like the OPer, some kid is acting in a way you don't approve of and no parent is in sight. It happens. I personally feel the best thing to do is make sure your kid is safe, politely say how you think they could modify their behavior, and let it go.

I think it is an extremely bad idea to get into ANYTHING physical with another child, and attempting to physically block a child rather than removing one's one child could EASILY become physical. It's just a bad idea to touch kids that you do not know and do know have permission to touch.

I know that to moms of toddlers, 7 year olds seem big. They aren't. They are just little kids, and they often have trouble with impulse control and taking turns.

[Chicky2]

I have run into this plenty of times myself.  That 7 yo boy may not be exposed to children younger than he on a regular enough basis to learn how to be patient.  Or he may have siblings and has always had to compete for a turn.  I see this in the neighbor kids.  There are 4 of them and they are spaced very closely in age.  Even though their mom was consistent with them, and always had a decent routine, etc., after almost 5 years of them playing almost daily at my house, I still have to remind them to take turns when speaking.  I have to remind them to stay out of other's conflicts (they are always trying to make sure someone *else* gets in trouble).  It seems to me that they always have to compete to be heard, get turns, have things be "fair".  I know that they were not raised the same as my kids, but they are still generally good kids.  I find their competitions to be frustrating, and not very peaceful.  There are plenty of times I've sent a couple of them home for awhile just to keep the competition down.  I don't want my own children learning to be so competitive over every.little.thing.  Thankfully my own children are wonderful at taking turns, being patient (not always, but generally speaking), and not stepping on the littles.  The children next door have come a very long way, and they are now completely trusted to play with my littlest one.  They may still compete to be heard, but they learned to be patient w/littler kids, but again, I still need to be near.  They may not argue so much with my kids, but they compete and argue with each other constantly. 

I also have a friend w/a sometimes very aggressive son who is on the spectrum.  He has tons of sensory integration issues and really loses control sometimes.  He is liable to start hitting or kicking or whatever at any time.  We both watch closely at all times.  To look at him, you would not be able to tell he has issues. 

I guess my point is is that it's just hard to tell.  OP, I think you handled it fine.  Also, there *is* a difference in how many boys at that age will respond to little ones.  Girls seem to be more patient.  They are often just more nurturing from a younger age.  I know w/the kids next door (2 girls-oldest, 2 boys-youngest), the girls were automatically more patient w/the younger ones  than the boys, but they would still argue and fight w/their siblings alot.  Just explain to your son that sometimes even older kids are still learning to be patient and take turns.

[MJB]

Originally Posted by Linda on the move 

Zebra15 -  <<There are a million and one ways to parent a child, most parents are going to do so differently than you.  And yes most kids are going to flat out ignore other adults.>>
 

waiting2bemommy - <<I disagree. I was raised, and my kids are bewing raised, to show respect to other adults. If anything, growing up I was *more* compliant with other adults than with my own mom!>>

I agree with Zebra15, and wouldn't want my kids to be "compliant" with adults they do not know.  That's just icky.

My kids have been raised to show respect to adults and would never flat out ignore someone. They know to come to me if anyone makes them uncomfortable or they are just wrong, and to yell and run if anyone tries to hurt them or take them, but otherwise, they listen to adults. They are as shocked as I am by the way some kids behave in public. 

[Linda on the move]

I honestly haven't raised my kids to "respect" adults.

As a child, I was sexually assaulted by someone who I knew and should have been able to trust, and my upbringing to not speak back to an adult made it easier for him.  I think the standard line on this "come if someone tries to grab you" shows a lack of understanding of how molesters prep kids, push the boundaries gradually, and get silence from their victims.

Oddly, my kids are super well behaved and their teachers LOVE them. Adults who work with my kids tell me that if all children were like them, their jobs would be easier. But it's not because I've told them to respect adults. Quite the opposite. I raised them to respect themselves.

[Chicky2]

We raise our children to respect themselves AND adults.  In general, most adults are not molesters.  Of course it happens, and I'm so sorry for the children it happens to.  We cherish and honor anyone older and wiser than us, rather than being afraid of them, unless they give us a good reason not to.  They of course know what to do if someone makes them uncomfortable in any way, but so far that has not happened.  If our children were to ever flat-out ignore any adult, they would definitely have consequences, including apologizing to the grown up.  There are just not enough "thank you, ma'am" and "thank you, sir"s happening anymore and we find it offensive to older generations and plain sad.  I love that our children love to sit and talk w/the elderly and learn from their wisdom, too. 

[Alyantavid]

OP, I think you handled it fine.  I'm kind of surprised by the number of responses that this is a typical way for a 7 year old to behave.  IME, it isn't at all.  My son's 9 and would never behave that way.  My 5 year old might, but that's why I supervise him more closely. 

Originally Posted by Linda on the move 

I honestly haven't raised my kids to "respect" adults.

Oddly, my kids are super well behaved and their teachers LOVE them. Adults who work with my kids tell me that if all children were like them, their jobs would be easier. But it's not because I've told them to respect adults. Quite the opposite. I raised them to respect themselves.

Same here.  I'm raising my kids to not give respect to adults simply because they're adults.  They're very respectful of adults who are respectful of them and people always tell me how well behaved my kids are (even my wild man, he may be wild but he's not mean or rude).   I think it's much better to teach my children to judge people and situations for themselves.

[LynnS6]

Originally Posted by NiteNicole 

I will get between my daughter and another kid and say, "Where is your grown up?"  because really?  I'm just not putting up with that.  I don't let her knock smaller kids off of things, so I'm not going to let bigger kids do it to her.  Her "turn" is not over just because another kid turns up.  Why yes these places ARE busy in the summer, what a good reason for children to know they should wait their turn.  I am always polite, I am not threatening.  I don't let my daughter monopolize anything and MOST children won't listen when she says, "it's my turn, I'm almost done" but they do listen when I say the same.  On the rare occasion that they don't, I will step in.

Yep, I would have said "who are you here with? Where are they? What you just did was not OK, and I"m going to go get your parents/grandparents/daycare person and explain to them what you did. We'll be right back, and when we get back, I expect you to be off the bike." Some kids need very very clear social lines drawn. They don't get the subtleties.

[Mummoth]

The only thing I'd have done differently is say "Wow! That was rude, he budged!" to my kid and then ask the kid where I can find his grown-up.