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I have a VERY social child who is NOT afraid to go off and play with others or even talk to adults without my approval. I have to watch him like a hawk when we go to the park.
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Besides emphasizing rules, which have yet to be tested fully and I'm not sure how well he will listen anyway (he's very strong willed, especially with just me. He listens a lot better to his dad), how did you approach the "stranger danger" subject without provoking fear?
I'm curious as to what you are "watching for" at the park? How big an area do you live in? My daughter is also quite social, but I've never worried about anyone she talked at our park. We live in a suburban area so it's not a like a huge city park. And I'm kind of a free range sorta mom myself.
We never tried to keep our children from conversing with other people (it would have been impossible for DS.) Plus, the vast majority of harm done to children is NOT from strangers. Instead, we worked with them on listening to their gut. If something didn't feel right then it isn't right no matter who it is. We talked about making smart choices, paying attention to their surroundings, keeping in communication with parents, ect. We talked about what other adults need from children and what they don't need. An adult doesn't need help from children to find their dogs, for example. We talked about what information is appropriate to share and what wasn't. We also started our kids in self-defense early (they go through the program at every different stage.) The program we used was SO good at empowering the kids without frightening them. They are local though. Certainly, good supervision is key when they are tiny but I'd worry less about him talking to people in the park and teach him how to listen to his "inner alarm system."
sorry, I didn't mean to be combative. I'm just wanting some more information on what you are worried about so we can think of some solutions. What kind of people are in your park? Is she talking to other parents? nannies?
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As far as stranger danger ---- well, my readings indicate that there is far greater threat from people you already know.
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To that end, we've had good touch/bad touch conversations with my daughter since pre-school. It was actually part of a curriculum. We talk a lot about keeping secrets, when that's OK and when you NEED to tell and adult, that you body is yours and NO ONE can make you do anything with it that you don't want - that includes hugs and kisses. These are the sorts of ways that I keep my daughter safe. You don't get in a car with anyone you don't know. But I've never warned her off of talking to anyone we didn't know.
Wow.. I apparently don't fit in this group. Everything I type for advice gets a condemning response as if I am the only person who wants to test their child before entering school, and now the only mom who doesn't trust strangers.
Oh, I hope that's not your takeaway. This board has some opinionated regulars and there are some general biases/tones. I haven't found anywhere else online that has a GD/AP bias and deals with gifted issues, and I like being challenged on my thinking as I try to figure stuff out.
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I also don't think anyone's saying don't test, it's just that it's expensive and experience indicates that it may not be the solution you're looking for :).
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Stranger danger stuff is hard. I went with general rules (don't leave without me telling you it's ok) and supervision. Both of my children are very social and gregarious, and DS was/is very impulsive. I was on high alert all the time.
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I have very friendly kiddos- social  and actually prefer to chat up adults vs other kids most of the time.
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A few things I have used are to role play and then not go into detail on WHY we dont get into cars (just a basic- little kids should ride in cars with people they know vs the reality of predatory people):
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They know that
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1. It is friendly to say hello to people, but give them personal space
2. Ask before you hug/touch (and discussed what are good touches/bad touches in relation to age)
3. Ask a trusted grown-up (parent, grandparent, friends mom) if you have questions
4. review if you get lost in a store to look for uniforms (workers) not strangers
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At 3,4,5 this has worked. My kiddos have kept their friendly, social spirits without fear of what strangers will do. They are able to keep that bubbly conversation that they crave, but we have set a few limits. We have been careful on wording due to one DD being exceptionally sensitive to nightmares/internalizing fears/dislike of scary or intense themes.
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As they get older- I will have to expand on it. But for now- I am OK with them talking to strangers as long as they have a known adult nearby.Â
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We do a lot of 'pretend' play.....if you are ina store and get lost, if you are in a park and dont see your trusted grown-up, etc. It is great for this age and gives them tools to use w/o the fear element.
You might be interested in Gavin de Becker's book "The Gift of Fear," which is about the whole issue of so-called stranger danger and keeping kids safe in a world filled with strangers. He busts some common myths, and I think much of what he suggests would be reassuring to someone with a child like yours. He says that a child who is afraid to approach strangers is actually at the greatest risk if lost and/or alone ... because of the signals of vulnerability that such a child sends, and the time they spend in that vulnerable situation, versus a child who is willing to approach an adult for help. In other words, if the child chooses an adult to approach, the odds are vastly in favour of that person not being a predator. If you child is afraid to approach an adult, instead waiting quietly alone, any contact will have to be adult-initiated, and a child predator in the area will be more interested in initiating contact than a random adult. The odds swing towards danger if your child is taught not to talk to strangers. So teaching your child who to choose to approach for help and how to do so is the best approach to take. And with a gregarious child, you already have the raw material of social confidence necessary to teach that skill.
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It's a great book. Your library likely has it.
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Miranda
4. review if you get lost in a store to look for uniforms (workers) not strangers
Just a comment about this: Security guards as a demographic group apparently have one of the highest rates of sexual predatorship. It makes a certain amount of sense: there's a solitary, power-based nature to the job. And they wear uniforms and work in malls. Gavin deBecker, in the book I mentioned above, suggests that female cashiers and mommies with children are the lowest risk people that a young child can easily identify to approach for help.
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Miranda
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Just a comment about this: Security guards as a demographic group apparently have one of the highest rates of sexual predatorship. It makes a certain amount of sense: there's a solitary, power-based nature to the job. And they wear uniforms and work in malls. Gavin deBecker, in the book I mentioned above, suggests that female cashiers and mommies with children are the lowest risk people that a young child can easily identify to approach for help.
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Miranda
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Thanks for that reminder- I did not know that : creepy!
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One of my DD will only go to a strange adult female (she has a heavy preference to women), so that covers that concern for our family of male security guards. We usually practice with a 'go to/safe' person being a woman cashier located in a public location and near the front of a store.
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I honestly dont know how to approach the potential of police-imposters since that is someone we DO teach our kiddos to go to. (as in the POLICE) logo on their uniforms not security.
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Wow.. I apparently don't fit in this group. Everything I type for advice gets a condemning response as if I am the only person who wants to test their child before entering school, and now the only mom who doesn't trust strangers.
I wouldn't take this so personally and of course you aren't the only one! It's just that this is a multi-aged board and so you are getting a lot of BTDT replies. You are not the first to get offended by the "don't worry so much" attitude but it's not intended as "you are stupid for worrying." It's intended as "lord, I was there. I wasted too much time stressing over things that were ultimately small potatos in the long run. Let me try to save you some grief."
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Certainly I stressed and worried when my kids were toddlers and preschoolers but looking back, I worried about all the wrong things. One example, I didn't know when DD was 2 that the traits that made others so uncomfortable and frankly, made her so unlikeable to others at the time would make her such a fantastic and popular leader as a teenager. I do wish someone would have said to me "you know, my kid was the same and she's doing just great now!" However, I just talked to other moms of toddler and preschoolers who were quick to tell me that yes, I had a real problem on my hands!
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All we can do is share our experiences. I didn't test my kids and at 10 and 14, they are thriving. That doesn't make testing your child wrong. It just means that it's not the only way to go. I didn't stress about my kids talking to strangers when they were little. Honestly, I worried about them less then because I was always around. Believe me, I worry more now that my DD is 14 and so often out in the world without me. I just try to remember that in every case, my kids have exceeded my expectations and been far more capable than I thought they were. I suspect your kids are the same!
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Just a comment about this: Security guards as a demographic group apparently have one of the highest rates of sexual predatorship. It makes a certain amount of sense: there's a solitary, power-based nature to the job. And they wear uniforms and work in malls. Gavin deBecker, in the book I mentioned above, suggests that female cashiers and mommies with children are the lowest risk people that a young child can easily identify to approach for help.
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Miranda
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That's what my kids self-defense classes always said too... look for mom's with kids or female workers. I have to admit, I often get "creeps" from security personel. There is only one place with security I actually feel safe with and it's at a theatre and the majority are women and very non-threatening males. Funny how they make me feel so much safer than the big guys at the mall.
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I am a fan of the de Becker's books. It really helped me put my fears into perspective. I agree with his advice, which has been mentioned here by other posters, to teach your child to look for another mommy.  Â
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Seperate from his books, I have heard the security guard thing before too.Â
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A friend of mine worked for the government, and later in private practice, as a doctor specializng in domestic abuse. She said the abuse by people who regularly wear a uniform to work is drastically higher than abuse found in the general population. Cops, security guards, correctional officers, military, etc.     Obviously it isn't the clothing, it is that they are in a position of power over people, they know how to control people, to work with the submissive. Abusers look for submissive victims.  Â
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Before everyone jumps on me saying their father/brother/husband/best friend is in the military and doesn't abuse, I get that. I know police officers that are wonderful fathers and partner. Every man in my family served in the armed forces. I know a uniform doesn't an abuser make. I am merely sharing a professional's observation about a higher than normal instance of abuse in the uniformed professions and it made sense to me when I read de Becker's advice.
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But what I really wanted to say is it is most likely the person that a child knows that will harm them, not a completely stranger and that abusers don't target the pushy, assertive child. They target the one who is timid, the little girl that taught to be "nice and polite", the child that is taught to not rock the boat.
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I guess I should apologize! My sensitivity stems from a long attempt at finding a a group I could share information about my son with. I have been ignored by friends of people with children that they feel are normal, as if I'm bragging about my child.. which I guess I could understand. I am always proud of him. No matter what it is he's doing. I've tried a home schooling group (these are in person) but was more told why it is the ultimate choice and I shouldn't consider anything else (my husband is NOT for 100% home schooling for his own reasons..) and now there are no local gifted groups, so I've decided to try to find some online. So, this is the end of my trial and with it comes some bitterness and caution from attempting to relate to other, 'wrong for what I was looking for' groups. I am sorry for carrying this grudge over to this new group!!
And by 'local' I mean a group within my city. Since there are gifted programs in the district, I assumed there would be play date groups or something similar. I have found a group that is in the Seattle area, but that is about 2 hours away from me. Those of you who have local to you support are extremely fortunate! I hope to one day find or create one for my city.
Momofsev,
I haven't been reading every thread and didn't read your testing thread.
My answer is going to depend in part on what you can afford. If you can only afford to test once AND your school options don't change with test results, then I'd think about waiting. If you can afford to test more than once, then it probably wouldn't hurt to give it a try knowing that you can afford to test again for more accurate and lasting results later.
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I guess I should apologize! My sensitivity stems from a long attempt at finding a a group I could share information about my son with. I have been ignored by friends of people with children that they feel are normal, as if I'm bragging about my child.. which I guess I could understand. I am always proud of him. No matter what it is he's doing. I've tried a home schooling group (these are in person) but was more told why it is the ultimate choice and I shouldn't consider anything else (my husband is NOT for 100% home schooling for his own reasons..) and now there are no local gifted groups, so I've decided to try to find some online. So, this is the end of my trial and with it comes some bitterness and caution from attempting to relate to other, 'wrong for what I was looking for' groups. I am sorry for carrying this grudge over to this new group!!
No worries. Honestly, I believe most of us have been exactly where you are. I knew no one with kids when my first was born. I had a lot of support from DH's an my families but since giftedness is the norm with us, my sense of average was totally off base. I honestly didn't think my DD was so different until people in stores started making ugly comments about her. I didn't think she was even that advanced until the park moms started saying things like "you must work with her." I was fortunate to happen across a playgroup where we fit for several years but once DD (who had been seen as the "slow" one because she had no interest in traditional academics until age 5) started surpassing their kids... and by a lot... it all fell apart. A couple I keep loose contact with but it was never the same once DD was grade accelerated ahead of their kids.
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I can say that it gets SOOOOO much better. Parental insecurity is at it's worst the preschool years. Once kids are school-age and parents are getting more concrete evidence that their child is "doing OK" they stress less about another child doing something different. Your kids start getting into interest based activities and that brings you in contact with more parents that are like you. You stop having to spend time with mom's you don't like just because your kids are friends. Believe it or not, for most, giftedness becomes almost a non-issue by middle and high school because we've had time to work out the academic kinks, our kids are better at advocating for themselves, ect. It's a relief when you state worrying about things that "normal" parents worry about like what age should you let your kid go to the mall with friends and no adults lol.
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There are some strong personalities on these boards. I have some of my own. You just have to take what makes sense with your situation and disreguard what you feel is alarmist or out-of-line.
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P.S. I wanted to tell you that parks are not the best place to look for connections with a child like yours. Try attending free or children's days at local museums. Go to library or special cultural events in your area. Yes, these moms go to parks too but you'll have higher concentrations of like minded moms at specialty activties.
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And by 'local' I mean a group within my city. Since there are gifted programs in the district, I assumed there would be play date groups or something similar. I have found a group that is in the Seattle area, but that is about 2 hours away from me. Those of you who have local to you support are extremely fortunate! I hope to one day find or create one for my city.
The idea of a gifted playgroup is nice but they tend to backfire. Those early years, what people perceive as gifted revolves heavily on early letter and number recognition. Yes, many gifted kids are early at this skill but many non-gifted kids are too. There is also a difference between a gifted kid who picks up these skills with little to no repetition and one with the same skills but lots and lots of exposure to give them this ability.
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I have read many, many books and articles on the topic of gifted children and the importance of seeking out peer groups instead of age groups. With this information I have read, I guess I have this idea of how it is supposed to be. My husband, as also echoed the importance of socialization with our son, which I agree with since he is a very social boy. It is important, for him, that he is in a school with other kids. It is important to us, and hopefully he will appreciate our insisting and advocating for that I'm prepared to do, that he be schooled at least in part with like-minded individuals. Like I have mentioned, though, I really have always wanted the advice, experience and opinion of others going through this, or having gone through this before, with their kids. I wish I would have found this forum before my desire to seek out information elsewhere (articles, books, which really only provide one sided points.)
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I like to be prepared and plan for the future. I know with kids in general it is hard to do that. With a advanced/gifted child, it is even more so. His interests change so frequently, I am learning how to be spontaneous and go with the flow more! :)
