Well visits? I don't really see a point. - Page 2

[CStone1]

No you are not crazy or alone in your thinking. Our 16 month old is totally un-vaxed and we don't plan on doing any. We have been to 3 well child checks and found them to mostly be pointless. We did a blood-lead test due to some concerns about paint at our rental unit and I felt really bad afterwards because they had to draw blood from his arm and we had to hold him still and he screamed a lot. The test ended up being negative anyways. If we have another child I think I would just skip them altogether. We had a home birth and house checks for the first two months pp and the midwives were so much more thorough then the doc's ever were and I also felt that they were way more knowledgeable and understanding and respectful of our families choices.

[boomer78]

Originally Posted by Emmeline II 

I'd make a complaint to the medical board about that doctor -- though there still seem to be peds unfamiliar with the mechanics of bfing and the growth of bf babies which is bad, substituting pedialyte for breastmilk (or even formula) seems downright dangerous.

Our ped has us sign the form; actually it is the form I signed 6 years ago (after crossing out the incriminating parts) and I just initial it each time--but there are no dirty looks and no one asks for an explanation, which is why I trudge to the middle of the city in the worst traffic to see her (the doctor is also close to my mom's age so she remembers life pre child vax schedule). That said, going did give me a lot of anxiety and I did avoid taking them for well visits for 2years because it felt like an interrogation on parenting choices--it got easier once they were out of diapers.

I need to take ds now (once a year) because he is on an ADHD stimulant and his psych requires a yearly physical, so I take dd as well. I think it is a good idea to have a doctor on file (a ped or a family doctor) to reference to the ER ("we don't vax and this is on file with their doctor) or any other mandated reporter or busybody. I normally take the children to the urgent care down the street when needed because it is close and has extended hours. And sometimes doctors do notice something a parent might not--as long as they are not distracted by your breastfeeding/co-sleeping/not-vaxing .

When searching for a ped I'd look for a DAN doctor as they are typically non-vax friendly.

Oh how much I wanted to complain! But I was taking it all in, slowly, you know? First baby, finding out vaccines are not what I believed they were and learning about them and the diseases they're for, panicking over the first hepB shot dd got, learning how to breastfeed, sleepless nights, elimination diet ...

That pediactrician took her growth chart out at our second appointment, the same for all babies of course, and because the line went way up she said all that to me. She couldn't believe I fed dd on demand. Oh I'm sorry I forgot to explain my daughter she can only eat every 3-4 hours or so. My bad. The doctor has also presribed liquid vitamins for dd when she was born, because breast milk does not have enought nutrients (unlike formula, which is balanced perfectly). Another point down for me, because even though I gave dd these vitamins a couple of times (not knowing any better, I completely trusted our pedi!) she didn't tolerate them very well (not surprised, after I read the ingredients) and I stopped giving them to her and admitted that to the doctor. Then she warned me that dd will die if she ever sleeps with us or me in our bed. I lied and told her she sleeps in her crib. If I remember correctly she had told me at the hospital that just 'last month' she had a baby in her care die because of sleeping with their parents. I'm very saddened if that really happened. But it kind of reminds me of the vaccine scare tactics. And well, when we told her no more vaxes for now (if ever) she told me the autism link has been debunked (oh how much I hate this word!!!), they're safe and it's very dangerous to not have them. When I insisted I will not let her inject our dd with toxic ingredients and asked her whether she is aware of the ingredients, she fired us.

[BeckyBird]

Good riddance to that doctor!

[locolala]

It is possible to find good doctors who are ok with not vaxing. I would be cautious about skipping WBVs though. Case in point.. I have a genetic condition that was not discovered until I was a year old, and the doctor was the one who realized I had all the signs of it. Because the doctor found it, I was able to get the treatment I needed.. surgery to remove a brain tumor, and monitoring to make sure I don't develop any more. My parents hadn't noticed the signs of NF, the doctor did. Just food for thought.

[Alenushka]

Well, I  did not go to Med School or have 43-4 years of residency. So, I do not know everything there is to know about my child's health. I had some maternal instinct hunches and I brought my kid in and I was right, it was something serious, I just did not know what.

However, there many silents things that parents would not notices until it is too late.

I bring my car to the qualified certified mechanic for oil check and safety check. Yes, I know some basic thing about cars I read on the Internet, but I would not notice the shape of my brakes until they failed.

Here is very interesting perspective and a story

http://sciencebasedparenting.com/2011/09/14/i-%e2%80%9cheart%e2%80%9d-well-child-check-ups/

[Turquesa]

What's a DAN doctor? 
 

Originally Posted by Emmeline II 

When searching for a ped I'd look for a DAN doctor as they are typically non-vax friendly.

[BeckyBird]

Is it a "Defeat Autism Now" doctor? I don't know, but it sounds fitting!

[Adaline'sMama]

We do well visits and will continue to do them. I dont want to have any issues if CPS ever becomes involved in my life. I want it to be clear that Im not vaxing because Ive done research and we have chosen not to, not because it looks like Im too lazy to take my kids to the doctor. My mom had CPS in our lives for most of our childhood and they were always all over her for not taking any of us to the doctor for regular appointments. And IMO, WBV arent that big of a PIA because my ped is pretty awesome, and they are only twice a year. There is a tea shop right down the street, so we just go to the ped, go to the tea shop, and go home. My ped doesnt harass me about not vaxing, because I chose a ped based on her reputation of being very open about vax and non medical healthcare.

[purslaine]

I did them as infants (say - till about 6 months).  Mostly I went to make sure their weight gain was acceptable.  I do remember one of the doctors being concerned with my middle daughter hips, but it turned out to be nothing.  I would not have known to look for it.  I do think they can spot things parent may not be aware of.  My doctors have always handled the vax discussion fairly well - they were not in favour of my choices, but I was not harassed in any way.

Post newborn period my kids go to the doctor when they are sick, or need to talk to the doctor for some reason.  

[prothyraia]

Originally Posted by locolala 

It is possible to find good doctors who are ok with not vaxing. I would be cautious about skipping WBVs though. Case in point.. I have a genetic condition that was not discovered until I was a year old, and the doctor was the one who realized I had all the signs of it. Because the doctor found it, I was able to get the treatment I needed.. surgery to remove a brain tumor, and monitoring to make sure I don't develop any more. My parents hadn't noticed the signs of NF, the doctor did. Just food for thought.

:

A good doctor will notice things that a parent won't, because they've been trained to look for subtle signs of conditions that wouldn't necessarily raise any warning flags for mom and dad.

Our ped has separate waiting areas for sick and well children, so that cuts down on the germ problems.

[lokidoki]

We do some WBVs but not all. I like having a relationship established with our ped however I do not feel it is necessary to do all WVs simply because the weight check is pointless. I will say that with DS1 we did not go from about 1 1/2 years until he was 5 for his kindergarten health check. They did a vision test and a hearing test...and during the hearing test the doctor was concerned about his left ear and recommended I take him to an ENT to get his hearing re-checked. They did a hearing screening at school and he passed so I have not bothered with any additional screening.

For the most part I think a mother is a much better judge of developmental issues than doctors will ever be ~ for no other reason than they see their children each day compared against children of the same age so they know if there is reason to be concerned.

[greenemami]

Yes, I do WBV.  We are doing our last six month visit and then will be at once a year for both kiddos.  I feel like I am pretty in touch with my kids' health, but I like to have a professional's view point too, as well as the documentation that I have been caring for them properly should I ever need it (maybe this is paranoid?!)  However, I am very lucky to have found a family doctor who not only supports my choices, but strongly encourages them as well (breastfeeding, intact, co-sleeping, no-vax, etc.) so it is always a pleasant experience to have an appointment.  I am glad that I have a relationship with the practice for when I need it.  I can understand why you would hesitate to do WBV when you have a non-supportive ped though. 

[2xy]

I did WBV with both of my kids. I probably would do selective visits if I had to do it all over again, but wouldn't skip them completely. I think everyone should have a yearly physical, including babies.

My DS1 got his driver's permit in 2008 and later that same year "flunked" the eye exam at the pediatrician's office. We wouldn't have known his eyes were sucky if he hadn't gone for a check-up; he didn't realize how blurry his vision was until he got glasses.

Originally Posted by lokidoki 

For the most part I think a mother is a much better judge of developmental issues than doctors will ever be ~ for no other reason than they see their children each day compared against children of the same age so they know if there is reason to be concerned.

There are lots of parents who don't socialize with people who have similarly aged children. When my kids were very young, I had a couple of friends with kids....we were all in the military and most of us were too busy to spend time chatting and observing each others' children.

I do believe that informed, educated, intelligent mothers are often more intuitive and can judge their children better than doctors. There are a lot of mothers who don't fit into that category. There are also too many parents who simply don't pay attention to their children or deny that anything could possibly be wrong with their child.

[lokidoki]

Originally Posted by 2xy 

There are lots of parents who don't socialize with people who have similarly aged children. When my kids were very young, I had a couple of friends with kids....we were all in the military and most of us were too busy to spend time chatting and observing each others' children.

I do believe that informed, educated, intelligent mothers are often more intuitive and can judge their children better than doctors. There are a lot of mothers who don't fit into that category. There are also too many parents who simply don't pay attention to their children or deny that anything could possibly be wrong with their child.

I would agree although I would contend that parents who do not pay attention to their children and developmental milestones are likely not on this forum doing research about vaccines and asking about WBVs. I would venture to say that the vast majority of non-vaxing parents that have made their decision from an informed point of view (not because they cannot afford it or do not want to bother with it) are paying pretty close attention to their children IMHO. We do not have a ton of friends with children the same age as DS1 (and had none when he was an infant) but I think delays significant enough to be caught at a WBV would likely be noticed even by parents who are not really comparing to other children (coming from being the aunt of a special needs child...his delays were noticeable even on his own...but even more so when I then had a child).
 

[prothyraia]

Originally Posted by lokidoki 

I would agree although I would contend that parents who do not pay attention to their children and developmental milestones are likely not on this forum doing research about vaccines and asking about WBVs. I would venture to say that the vast majority of non-vaxing parents that have made their decision from an informed point of view (not because they cannot afford it or do not want to bother with it) are paying pretty close attention to their children IMHO. We do not have a ton of friends with children the same age as DS1 (and had none when he was an infant) but I think delays significant enough to be caught at a WBV would likely be noticed even by parents who are not really comparing to other children (coming from being the aunt of a special needs child...his delays were noticeable even on his own...but even more so when I then had a child). 

Maybe, but issues other than developmental delays are screened for and caught at WBVs (like the cardiac problem upthread). You're just not going to catch on to a heart murmur at home no matter how closely you pay attention to your kids; there are other issues like that which are 'invisible' to parents and onlookers but that a good doctor will pick up on.

[2xy]

Originally Posted by lokidoki 

I would agree although I would contend that parents who do not pay attention to their children and developmental milestones are likely not on this forum doing research about vaccines and asking about WBVs.

I'm sorry, I wasn't aware that the discussion was centered around those children whose parents are on MDC.

The blanket statement was made that mothers know more about their children than doctors do. When looking at society from all angles, I can't agree with that statement.

[lokidoki]

Originally Posted by 2xy 

I'm sorry, I wasn't aware that the discussion was centered around those children whose parents are on MDC.

The blanket statement was made that mothers know more about their children than doctors do. When looking at society from all angles, I can't agree with that statement.

Actually ~ NO ~ my original quote was:
 

"We do some WBVs but not all. I like having a relationship established with our ped however I do not feel it is necessary to do all WVs simply because the weight check is pointless. I will say that with DS1 we did not go from about 1 1/2 years until he was 5 for his kindergarten health check. They did a vision test and a hearing test...and during the hearing test the doctor was concerned about his left ear and recommended I take him to an ENT to get his hearing re-checked. They did a hearing screening at school and he passed so I have not bothered with any additional screening.

For the most part I think a mother is a much better judge of developmental issues than doctors will ever be ~ for no other reason than they see their children each day compared against children of the same age so they know if there is reason to be concerned."

And how would it not be referring to mothers here on MDC since my response was answering the question of an MDC mother here in the MDC forum? Wasn't trying to be snarky but was indeed trying to say that while I think some WVs are worthwhile ~ I do not think that there need be overkill on visits since the vast majority of WVs are centered around vaxing. I never said that mothers know more about their children than doctors do ~ what I said was that I think a mother is a much better judge of developmental issues than doctors ever will be ~ and I stand by that statement having a nephew who is vax damaged and it got little attention from doctors who kept saying he would "catch up"!

Edited by lokidoki - 10/2/11 at 8:03pm

[lokidoki]

Originally Posted by prothyraia 


Maybe, but issues other than developmental delays are screened for and caught at WBVs (like the cardiac problem upthread). You're just not going to catch on to a heart murmur at home no matter how closely you pay attention to your kids; there are other issues like that which are 'invisible' to parents and onlookers but that a good doctor will pick up on.

See my first response ~ I stated I do believe in an established relationship with a ped.

[LynnS6]

I did well baby visits because both dh's family and my family have a history of major eye issues, and I didn't feel I was able to properly diagnose that. Dh's family also has a history of joint issues and gastrointestinal issues (his sister developed Crohn's disease as a child, dh's had 2 feet of his colon removed). So, regardless of vaxing, I wanted these things monitored.

Ds also had a trigger thumb (the tendon on his thumb got caught and he couldn't unbend his thumb) and it was affecting his fine motor development; he also developed a cyst right next to his eye when he was about 1. We watched that for about 10 months, but it was growing, and eventually decided on surgery to remove it as it was beginning to look like it might threaten his eye (and we had them fix the thumb all at the same time -- coordinating 2 different surgeons was a treat!) I will say it was much easier to get my worries looked at because we had a relationship with a ped. (Ds is also pigeon toed with one foot, and it was easy to get a referral to a pediatric orthopedist. The orthopedic surgeon was very firm that unless ds' gait tripped him up, surgery was worse than have a foot that turns in noticeably. (They'd have to break the femur and realign it.) So, going to a doctor doesn't automatically = lots of intervention.

Dd didn't have anything major other than allergies and highly sensitive skin, but given her brother's issues and the family history, I was just as happy to to do them.

Once they hit 3-4, I got more lax. Now they usually go in every other year if we haven't gone in for an illness, just to have vision checked, and an overall checkup. Ds had to have a physical to go to camp this year, and so we took him in for the first time in 2 or 3 years. He's a remarkably healthy kid, and we've now got an opthomologist to check their eyes.

[eireann]

We don't vaccinate and do well visits, but we also love our pedi. That has to make a huge difference. She's open minded and really easy to talk to, and I just like to get her eyes on my DD.

I've heard too many stories where tumors in the stomach, neuroblastoma, wilms, were caught early by the pediatrician. Also, my family has had some issues that definitely benefited from a visit to the ped. It all depends on the quality of the Dr. of course.