All the research can't change DH's experience with circ....

[NourishCreate]

Hi Everyone,

   I've done a lot of research about circ  and firmly feel that keeping my baby intact is the best for him (should it be a boy).  I'm currently preg  and have no idea the gender yet. DH and I are not (yet) in agreement.  I feel that I may have one of the toughest crowds when it comes to saying "no thank you" to circ.     Long story short,  my DH's parents did not circ him at birth and didn't want him to be, for many of the same reasons that I don't want to.  BUT when he was 4-5 yrs old DID get an infection and was circumcised- at the memorable age of 5- he was in the hospital for a week he says- whether that was from the infection or the circ or both i'm not sure of the details. I know DH has trauma from this experience, and does NOT want our future son to have this happen to him, so he wants to circ at birth-  to prevent the trauma at an older age and to prevent the infection possibilities.  (Which I know all the research says is not that likely to happen, but it DID happen to DH- so I can't exactly convince him it's not likely.)     So, bc of this experience he and his parents are supporters of circ- bc the worst case scenario of being intact DID happen to them.   
 

We both agreed to learn more and go from there.  I have read so much- but  regarding the infection issue- I need more information- statistics and numbers are good for DH.

If you have any resources to share, please let me know.  

Thanks

[Devaskyla]

Since there is virtually no legit reason to circ, he undoubtedly endured that for no reason. Infections are treated with antibiotics, not cutting things off, for every other body part. I'm sorry your husband was injured by dr ignorance, but injuring his son won't make that any better.

I'm sure someone else will give you links and stats, but the fact is that it is far more traumatic for an infant than a 5 year old. The majority are not done with any anesthesia or pain killers after the fact, the foreskin is still attached to the glans and has to be ripped off before being cut (tell your dh to imagine having his fingernail ripped off with no pain relief, THAT'S only part of what he wants to subject his son to, except on a far more sensitive body part). He was traumatized & he HAD anesthesia & pain relief, how on earth can he think of subjecting a newborn to the same thing with neither of those?

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

I to am sorry for your dh's experiance my oldest brother also had the same one. The problem is that my brother didnt need to be circed he healed before the surgery but the Dr. did it any way. Even if your dh was so badly infected he couldnt urinate that still isnt cause for circ a dorsel slit can be made allowing for urination and it dosnt remove any foreskin and when it heals it is hardly noticable.

Infection is not a reason to circ and never has been even though it is still done knowing that it isnt needed will protect your ds from it.

My ds had an infection at around 2 he took abx and topical cream and was better in under a week and hasnt had a problem since.

Explain to your dh the simple fact that infection = abx not cutting no matter how bad the infection might be unless it turns to gangrene he will not need surgery for it.

[ElliesMomma]

yes to all of the above. most likely -- if you ask his parents -- the infection occurred after the doctors started retracting your husband's foreskin. you are not supposed to do this, but doctors routinely did it (and still do it) out of ignorance. one of my brothers also went through infection after infection and was circumcised at 16. when i told my mother i was not going to circumcise my baby boy, her first comment was that we will just have to pull the foreskin back and wash under it. which is totally WRONG. you don't pull it back, you don't wash under it. doing so is what gives a baby an infection! my mother told me that the doctors started doing this to my brother when he was 6 months old. if i were you, i would definitely try to find out if this was what your inlaws did too. if so, then you know where the infection came from, and you also know how to prevent it.

finally, it is not your inlaws decision, and it is not even your husband's. if you are having this baby in a hospital, they will regard YOU as their patient, and they will abide by YOUR wishes. at least for the neonatal time of the first couple days in the hospital following birth, it is up to YOU. so don't be persuaded or guilted into signing for it. simply refuse.

[Dan Bollinger]

He should know that, like his circumcision, all are traumatic. The mistake he is making is thinking that a newborn won't feel pain, won't be traumatized, and will be saved from lifelong consequences. He is WRONG. Babies feel as much or more pain than adults. He was lucky, he got an anesthetic, your infant son won't get one (or if he does it will be ineffective). Research shows that his brain will be permanently damaged. And, he'll be at greater risk for addictive behaviour, suicide, and five times more likely to suffer erectile dysfunction. An infection on the other hand can be treated with antibiotics. Unformtunately, his doctor was cut happy and resorted to amputation instead.

CDM on UTI infections

[hakunangovi]

Nourish,  I wholeheartedly agree with everything the pps have stated above - an infection is no reason to amputate ,  especialy without adequate pain relief.

The decision whether or not to keep a foreskin rests with the owner of said penis, and no one else.  My grandfather was circumcised at the age of 12 by an ignorant doctor, and when I came along he persuaded my mother to have me circumcised just in case I would need to be in the future. His reasoning being that it was better as a infant rather than an older age when the child would remember.  I really wish that he would have kept his faulty reasoning to himself.  I wish my mother would have thought about it more objectively.  I wish the doctor had showed her how unreasonable that line of thinking was.  There is no other body part on a male or female that is removed for prophylactic reasons.  Why is a foreskin the only one?

Another thought to ponder is the notion that babies don't remember.  Actualy a few do remember their circumcision in their conscience memory.  However, the fact is that any baby who has endured circumcision has been traumatised and his brain has been altered in a harmful way, even though he likely does not consciencely remember the actual event.  Check out www.cirp.org for more information.

Finaly, consider the experience and statistics of a non circumcising nation - Finland.  In Edward Wallerstein's book "Circumcision - An American Health Fallacy", he states that in Finland only one in 16,667 men will die without their foreskin.  That number should illustrate that in the U.S. and even Canada and Britain, far too many circumcisions are being performed for no good reason.  A problem with a foreskin should be treated like a problem with any other body part - medicaly, not by amputation.

I would implore you to implore your DH to give your son the choice.  Otherwise he could spend his whole life, like me, wishing he intact and wishing that his parent's had not made such an illogical decision.

Good luck.

[BubblingBrooks]

By his way of thinking, when a female has a yeast infection, she needs to have something lopped off as well.

[calngavinsmom]

Hello there! Do you think it would help if he knew that a boy circumcised at birth has the same chance of needing to be REcircumcised at some point in his life than a boy who is left intact at birth needing to be circumcised at all?  This is according to the Canadian pediatric society. 

Here is a link to that:

http://www.caringforkids.cps.ca/pregnancybabies/Circumcision.htm

Good luck!

[Super~Single~Mama]

I think you need to be very gentle with your DH.  His circ was obviously very traumatic for him, and acknowledging that, and being understanding of that will go a long ways.  Gently educating him about the reasons Dr's circ at an older age, and what you as parents can do to help prevent that need (mostly proper care, and understanding what the function of the foreskin is).  Approach it as learning together about how to prevent the same situation that happened to him, and if you can find a foreskin friendly pediatrician to interview, that might really ease his fears.

Be gentle, and understanding of his trauma.  I don't think you want to point out that it would be more traumatic for a newborn - he's the one who has been through the trauma, and he thinks that it was worse at 5 (he probably figures that at least a baby won't remember it - and you need to respect that feeling).  Be gentle, but firm.  I hope he comes around, but you do not have to consent.

[NourishCreate]

Thank you everyone for your input.   I really appreciate the perspective that- his doctor was likely uninformed, or unfamiliar with the care and treatment of the foreskin (as many doctors in the US are)       It's exactly the understanding that i've needed-  that likely, his treatment was not the best case treatment, but because of an uninformed medical staff-  AND I really appreciate the viewpoint that we can learn together how to prevent this from happening to our son by being properly informed!    

Learning the care and purpose of the foreskin is going to be the way to go.    I feel that the gentle approach is the way to go, as I don't want to undermine DH's traumatic experience, but look at it as a chance to forge ourselves away from the ignorance and be educated and fully informed. 

The proper treatment for an infection is what I was needing to understand- and it makes total sense to me. I hope I can gently implore DH to understand another perspective.

[PuppyFluffer]

I hope you have gotten the info you need here.  I agree completely with what everyone has said.

It is important to remember that your husband is wanting to save his son from the trauma he endured but he's not understanding that he would be inflicting trauma anyway.  I often say "Why do parents circumcise their sons?  Because the love them.  Why do parents keep their sons intact?  Because they love them.  The difference between these two sets of parents is that one set had proper education, the other did not."

I hope your dh is able to see and learn with you through his own trauma.  Childhood trauma is a very real issue and it has life long effects.