What to do when you spouse says this

[FatherTryingToHelp]

Motherhood, and our child, is a constant disappointment to my partner.

I was taken a bit aback, I knew that my wife had always had some problems since our son was born, for various and sundry reasons his birth was complicated, coupled with either PPD or Bipolar disorder kicking in shortly after he was born, led to even further problems. However now at 3 years old I feel our son is a relatively good kid, he does do a few things that make us a little worried that he may be autistic, and has always been a bit more on the timid side (at 2 he still just cried if another child took one of his toys away, even if that other child was only a few months old).

The final straw (today) seemed to be we went to a kite festival, and he wanted to go on the bouncy castle, fine, no problem, we get tickets, wait in line, it's his turn, and he gets on, and then just sits in the corner crying for the allotted time. I'm not sure what he was expecting, or what we were, but it seemed to break the camels back.

We made our way towards the exit and my wife said that this isn't the first time he's done things like this (which is dead true, it isn't) and that she finds him a constant disappointment, my reaction, well I basically told her she needs to think about whether she really wants to be his mother then, maybe I was harsh, but it's how I feel, that she can either stop expecting him to be a perfect child, or she can leave, and go and live somewhere else. I don't want to lose my wife, but I really don't know what else I can do.

I feel like I've spent the last 3 years walking on egg shells trying to help out and make things right, and I am just reaching the end of my rope, and it's eating my up, because I honestly feel like maybe our lives would have been better if she had committed suicide when she was threatening to, and in sane moments I'd never think that, but that's where I am.

[grumpybear]

Have you guys sought counselling for your wife? Or have you sought an assessment for your 3y.o. if you are suspecting autism? It seems that your wife does not have the necessary resources in parenting or even parenting a special child. Might you all benefit from counselling, if only for your wife to obtain and learn coping strategies?

[philomom]

Okay, I'll bite.

Your wife may be still mourning the child she wished she had. Having a special needs/ very difficult child can be a blow. It's not what she envisioned and she's at a loss. That said, at three years old she has had some time to get used to the idea.
Get her into therapy.
Find a special needs playgroup.
Find a doctor to give your son a complete once over to see what you are dealing with. There are folks out there whose sole job it is to figure this stuff out. And sometimes it takes a team to decode a child.
You don't say whether or not your wife is a stay at home mom but if she is.. maybe a preschool for special needs kids might help them both. It would her a break and allow trained others to play with and assess your child.
Divorce, tempting as it sounds... is not going to give your son the stability he needs. Single parents with special needs children need even more of a support system in place because it is so hard to deal with on a daily basis. You don't say anything about your extended community.. can friends, grandparents or aunts and uncles pitch in?

[FatherTryingToHelp]

We're thinking of an assessment, honestly I don't think he is Autistic, or if he is, I think it's on the low-end of the scale, the only thing that worries me slightly is the amount he plays with other three year olds.

My wife is in therapy, goodness alone knows if it's helping, some days it seems to be, other days I wonder if it's ever going to get anywhere.

My wife isn't a stay at home mum, but she doesn't have a full time job either, right now she has a small part time job through a family member to try to keep her occupied while in therapy and getting medication sorted and all that fun stuff.

Now she's started recently looking for a job, but our three year old is in a fairly large day-care every day (well Mon-Fri) and seems to be doing fine.

[scottishmommy]

OP, you should look into therapy as well. Living with a depressed spouse is very hard, and it would probably help to have someone to talk to.

[Mummoth]

How much time do your wife and son spend around other kids? My son wasn't a constant disappointment to me, but there were many times in his younger years that I felt very embarrassed by some of his behaviour. It wasn't until he started preschool that I noticed everyone else's kids running aimlessly in circles and making weird repetitive noisy noises and just generally being little dorks.

I think if the bouncy castle scenario happened when DS was 3, my internal dialogue would be comprised of wondering if the other parents around thought he had an emotional problem, then worrying that I was screwing him up. Then he'd pick up on my tension and really start acting up and it became sort of a vicious cycle. In reality, he was probably surprised by the number of kids in the castle, or it was bouncier than he expected... something about it was just overwhelming to him. 

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by FatherTryingToHelp 

We're thinking of an assessment, honestly I don't think he is Autistic, or if he is, I think it's on the low-end of the scale, the only thing that worries me slightly is the amount he plays with other three year olds.

I have a child on the high end of the spectrum, and my advice is start the ball rolling NOW for an assessment and intervention. It's not just a label, its information about how your child thinks and experiences the world. Its a chance to make the most of what he's got.  In some places, there are long waits to get into the right kind of specialist.

The only reason to not do it is because denial is in many, many ways, easier than looking at the truth straight on.

If your wife isn't up to it, then make the calls and get the ball rolling. There is a special needs board here where you can get tons of information and support.

From reading your posts, rather than counseling alone, my recommendation is marriage counseling. The divorce rate for couples with a sn kid is really high. So many of the joys of raising a typically developing child are missing, and instead replaced with difficult and sad things. As it is, your wife is barely in her own life, much less in your marriage, and you sound at the end of your rope. There is hope, it is possible for you each to find yourselves and each other again. But being honest with yourself about exactly how bad things are is the first step to making them better.

[lilmom]

I am sorry to hear about your struggles. First off, just based on the little info you gave, your son does not sound abnormal to me. Some kids are shyer, or have a harder time in a crowd, or just get overwhelmed. Perhaps an evaluation would help your wife to see how normal his behavior really is. Of course, if he is special needs, then all the better to get an evaluation! And if their parent is feeling tension, they tend to feed off of it. I definitely think counseling is in order for the both of you. Marriage counseling would probably help tremendously. Has your wife been doing anything to treat her depression? It sounds like she really needs to. I feel for you, children are such a huge blessing and i can't imagine how sad I would be if my spouse was constantly disappointed in our child and his role as a parent. That's not fair to anyone in the family, especially your little guy.

[Snowflake777]

OP, I'm so sorry you're dealing with this. I would be devastated if my spouse said that about my child.

I'm reading this a bit differently than others seem to be. I think this is less about your son's possible issues and more about your wife. I'm not dismissing the possibility that there might be some spectrum stuff going on there, but OTOH maybe he's a typical kid who just happens to be on the shy side. It's hard to say without knowing more.

Taking a brief glance at your post history, I see that your wife's struggles with depression are severe and ongoing. Living with a depressed person is incredibly difficult. My number one suggestion is to focus on self-care. Please get some counseling for yourself. You need to take care of your own mental health as best you can.

Without wishing to be alarmist, do you trust your wife around your son? Is she capable of hurting him? You don't have to answer that here, it's just something to consider.

I imagine most of the parenting duties fall onto you. If that's the case, do you have anyone else to help out? Friends, family, paid babysitters? You & your son need a good support system.

What do you want to happen (besides obviously wanting your wife to get better)? Do you want to stay in the relationship? Maybe a break could be helpful for all of you.

[XanaduMama]

Originally Posted by FatherTryingToHelp 

We made our way towards the exit and my wife said that this isn't the first time he's done things like this (which is dead true, it isn't) and that she finds him a constant disappointment, my reaction, well I basically told her she needs to think about whether she really wants to be his mother then, maybe I was harsh, but it's how I feel, that she can either stop expecting him to be a perfect child, or she can leave, and go and live somewhere else. I don't want to lose my wife, but I really don't know what else I can do.

I just want to add that your reaction to her (understandable, given the circumstances) expression of frustration was WAY harsh and uncalled for.  And ultimatums? "She can either stop expecting him to be a perfect child, or she can leave"? Partners don't say such things to one another. So yes, maybe she needs therapy or whatever, but I think you've got some stuff to work on too. And I totally agree that you need to get an evaluation for your child. Maybe it is simple shyness, but if it's causing such friction in your family, it's worth exploring further.

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by XanaduMama 
. So yes, maybe she needs therapy or whatever, but I think you've got some stuff to work on too.

I just went and read old posts from the OPer. His wife has been in therapy for a long time, has been in an inpatient program, and has been on multiple medications.  The situation is extreme. It sounds to me like this is far beyond the mom being down or having PPD, or even having trouble dealing with a child's SN (which I understand, I've been there). It sounds like the mom is mentally ill and not getting better despite tremendous support and intervention.

After reading the old posts and seeing how long the OPer has been dealing with this and the numerous things that have been tried, I feel nothing but compassion.

I'm wondering at what point it becomes appropriate for a parent to leave a mental ill partner and raise a child alone, rather than continuing year after year to attempt to build a functional life with someone who isn't capable of that.

Yes, for the most parts kids are better off when their parents stay married to each other. But we all know that isn't always the case -- mental illness that doesn't respond to intervention is one of those times that a child *might* be better off if the parents are not together.

Peace

[LynnS6]

OP: I would recommend counseling for you, and perhaps family therapy if your wife is willing to go. It sounds like she's got some major major mental health issues. The point of your counseling, would be, I think, to figure out where the boundary for you is between trying to make it work and leaving. But if you leave, you have to make sure that your son will be well cared for. I don't know where you live, but mom will most likely have anything from visitation to joint custody. 

As for the 'quirks' -- I would recommend some reading. "The Highly Sensitive Child" comes to mind first. "The Emotional Life of the Toddler" is also a good one (I know your son is 3, but I found this book very helpful when our quirky, anxious son was 3). There's a good chapter on "The fearful child". I'd also recommend "The Out of Sync Child" and "Quirky Kids". If it helps, I had a very slow to warm up child who was diagnosed with Sensory Processing Disorder at age 5. He was in occupational therapy for 2 years, and it made a world of difference. He's still a quiet introvert, he still has a few quirks. But occupational therapy and time have really helped. OK, so he's 10 and he just this summer had the courage to get his face wet. He's making progress. He's got a wicked sense of humor and is a lot of fun to be with. I second the recommendation to have him assessed -- we had our son assessed 2x - once for the sensory issues, and once for anxiety. He needed therapy for the sensory issues, the psychologist recommended a 'wait and see' with the anxiety. Both times it was very helpful to understand our son. He wasn't refusing to wash his hair because he was obstinate, he could not put his head back (he had some motor planning issues) and he was terrified to put his head below his shoulders. 

[A&A]

Originally Posted by Linda on the move 

I just went and read old posts from the OPer. His wife has been in therapy for a long time, has been in an inpatient program, and has been on multiple medications.  The situation is extreme. It sounds to me like this is far beyond the mom being down or having PPD, or even having trouble dealing with a child's SN (which I understand, I've been there). It sounds like the mom is mentally ill and not getting better despite tremendous support and intervention.

After reading the old posts and seeing how long the OPer has been dealing with this and the numerous things that have been tried, I feel nothing but compassion.

I'm wondering at what point it becomes appropriate for a parent to leave a mental ill partner and raise a child alone, rather than continuing year after year to attempt to build a functional life with someone who isn't capable of that.

Yes, for the most parts kids are better off when their parents stay married to each other. But we all know that isn't always the case -- mental illness that doesn't respond to intervention is one of those times that a child *might* be better off if the parents are not together.

Peace

Agreed. 

[insidevoice]

I don't know- the behaviors described (in the child)  don't sound like much to raise huge red flags.  Maybe something to be aware of, but not anything to be overwhelmed by, certainly.  My three year old would have the same reaction to a bouncy castle- or worse. If your wife can't handle that, she really does need to think about whether she wants to parent this child or not.  It's great trying to support your partner, but not at the expense of your child. 

The patterns of behavior in mom on the other hand.... I guess my first question to her would be whether she WANTS to feel better or if she plans to remain stuck in her current patterns.  Three years is long enough to begin to get a good handle on it if she ever plans to do so. If she wants things to be different, she has to start making changes and changing her thought patterns- particularly if she routinely lives her life seeing her child as a disappointment. Ick.  What a terrible way for a child- particularly a sensitive child- to grow up. 

Marriage counseling is certainly something to consider, but I think the OP needs some individual counseling to figure out what he wants his role here to be.  It sounds, to me, like he's going to need to choose between being a parent and being a partner sooner rather than later. 

I apologize if I seem harsh in saying this, I'm sure he's in an agonizing position, but if she can't at least clearly show a great deal of progress in taking care of herself at this point- having had tremendous support-  perhaps it's time to simply protect the child and preserve anything left of himself so the child has one mostly intact parent. 

My ex has no contact, and no rights to, his daughter.  He chose not to gain control of his mental illness. I don't have any obligation to care for him- the person he was is gone, and the person he became is not an influence I want anywhere near MY life, let alone my daughter's.  I am honest with her, I refuse to demonize him to her, but as she is older now, she understands that sometimes mental illness takes people away from our lives.  That is very sad, and we can support them and wish them the best, but we don't have to allow our lives to be shredded because they can't manage their illness. 

[carmel23]

I think group therapy is in order.  I know how terrible mental illness can be, but as a child of a mentally ill person who never took responsibility for it, and put it all on us kids, that is a bad place for the child to be.  My mom threatened suicide and to abandon me and my brother, and still talks about killing herself.  I have zero tolerance for it now as an adult.  It has taken me a long time to really come to grips with how messed up my mom was/is, and how it isn't *me*. 

Instead of getting help she self-medicates with alcohol and prescription pills.  When she visits I often have near panic attacks.  I have some lovely childhood memories, but a lot of horrible ones from when I was a pre-teen/teen. 

[carmel23]

Originally Posted by Linda on the move 

I just went and read old posts from the OPer. His wife has been in therapy for a long time, has been in an inpatient program, and has been on multiple medications.  The situation is extreme. It sounds to me like this is far beyond the mom being down or having PPD, or even having trouble dealing with a child's SN (which I understand, I've been there). It sounds like the mom is mentally ill and not getting better despite tremendous support and intervention.

After reading the old posts and seeing how long the OPer has been dealing with this and the numerous things that have been tried, I feel nothing but compassion.

I'm wondering at what point it becomes appropriate for a parent to leave a mental ill partner and raise a child alone, rather than continuing year after year to attempt to build a functional life with someone who isn't capable of that.

Yes, for the most parts kids are better off when their parents stay married to each other. But we all know that isn't always the case -- mental illness that doesn't respond to intervention is one of those times that a child *might* be better off if the parents are not together.

Peace

I agree with this, as well. 

[A&A]

OP, if you haven't done so already, document everything (and your posts on MDC are a good start in regard to that.)  You'll need the evidence for a custody evaluation, unfortunately.  IF you do get divorced, you want to end up with primary custody, perhaps with your (ex) wife having supervised visitation.   I know you don't want to lose your wife, but honestly, I think you already "lost" her 3 years ago.  I'm so sorry. 

But don't let your child spend his life thinking he's a "constant disappointment."  Bouncy castles are scary for a lot of kids.  I agree that could just be a sensitive child instead of one with special needs.  (Either way, you don't want him to feel like a disappointment.)

Have you read The Highly Sensitive Child or Raising Your Spirited Child ?  

Edited by A&A - 8/2/11 at 1:03am

[hakeber]

Nothing you posted here seems like special needs to me, but I am sure there is more to the story than is posted here.

I think you are well within your rights to give an ultimatum for not taking meds, for choosing a cycle of depression and resentment, but for being disappointed?  My husband is disappointed in my son every time he tries to play or watch a sport with him...I'm hardly  going to be upset over that, so I have to assume there is a lot on the camel's back for this instance to break it.

If she is unwilling to get help and change, you need to protect your little guy, who from what you described here seems perfectly normal.

Could it be that she sees herself in his quirks and hates herself for giving her disease to him?  I had a friend who was bipolar and she was constantly watching her son for "signs" and every little thing he did was under scrutiny no matter how normal it seemed to me.  Especially anything that reminded her of her own behavior as a child...it was a sure tell-tale sign that he was going to be just like her in every bad and horrible way.  She never saw the good parts of him being like her, that she was sensitive and sweet and generous and caring and deeply in tune with the world around her.  She was always blaming herself for his perceived "defects".  Like your wife she never would admit it to her husband for whom she was trying to pretend to be "normal" and instead it came out as anger, resentment, and depression, when deep down it was mostly just fear...mixed with a chemical imbalance that she was self-medicating with alcohol and drugs on top of the meds she sometimes took, or didn't depending on the curve she was on.   I always wished I could get her to put aside her pride and tell her ex the truth, but she was too scared for even that. 

ETA: Having been through PPD without a chemical imbalance to overcome, I can tell you the feelings of shame run so deep, so very very deep it can be earth shattering to admit them to yourself, which one would have to do before admitting them to anyone else, even someone you love as deeply as your chosen life partner.  This does n't mean you have to hang out and wait for her, and I am not suggesting that you should, but if you want to save the relationship, it is important to understand how when motherhood doesn't solve the world's mysteries as we are led to believe by popular culture that it will all our lives as little girls, that fulfilling our purpose as mothers will make our purpose clear and solve every problem in the world, it can be soul crushing, especially if you were not so happy with yourself, or felt you needed serious fixing to begin with.   

Edited by hakeber - 8/2/11 at 5:52am

[Snowflake777]

Looking back at the OP's posts, his wife is already receiving intensive treatment.

OP, I also wouldn't blame you for leaving. My father became very seriously depressed when I was in my teens, and after 5 years of him being in & out of hospital with little or no improvement, my mother got a separation. She loved him very much, but she had a reactive depression of her own and needed to protect what little remained of her own sanity. It was really sad, especially as they'd always had a strong marriage, but I understand her reasons.

I'm sure it won't be easy, but in some ways it sounds like it might be a relief to your wife to be freed from daily parenting responsibilities. Your son also doesn't deserve to be in that environment. I imagine it's taken a huge toll on him, and I would speculate that his issues (whatever they are) might be more related to having an unstable parent than anything else.

Hugs again.

[rightkindofme]

Originally Posted by Linda on the move 

I'm wondering at what point it becomes appropriate for a parent to leave a mental ill partner and raise a child alone, rather than continuing year after year to attempt to build a functional life with someone who isn't capable of that.

Yes, for the most parts kids are better off when their parents stay married to each other. But we all know that isn't always the case -- mental illness that doesn't respond to intervention is one of those times that a child *might* be better off if the parents are not together.

This set of things is something I think about a lot.  I have severe mental health issues.  I'm working on them, but they will always be present.  The man I used to date told me that he could never decide if it was worth all the work it took to be in a relationship with me (thus we aren't together).  I worry about hitting my husband's "done".

I do think that children should be removed from the custody of inappropriate caregivers.  It's hard to wonder if I am appropriate or not.