Making the decision...Do you ever worry about your future babies?

[Jelli Belli]

I'm new to this forum and my daughter is now a little over a month old. I'm still gathering information and trying to make a decision about whether will will vax, or modify vax, or not vax at all.

I've been debating this the whole time I was pregnant and now I feel like I'm getting down to the wire about needing to start making a decision. I keep coming back to the same point in my head and wondered how you moms who decided not to vax deal with this.

I'm not so much worreid about my daughter. I'm a nurse practioner and I feel qualified that I can keep her away from anything potentially infectious for this first year of life. I plan on having several more children and I'm worried about the older ones coming in contact with pertussis or measels and bringing it home to a house with a baby in it. I'd feel confident that an older child's immune system could fight off the virus but I also know that measels is deadly in 75% of the cases that occur in children under the age of 6 mon. Measels incubates for 1-3 weeks before symptoms even occur so I would have no idea that my older child was sick and was infecting my baby. I'd also never be able to forgive myself if I took my child to the pediatrician for an illness and they ended up infecting another infant with something that was potentially deadly. Or even at a family function...if my non-immunized child made somebodies infant who was to young for immunizations sick. How would I deal with that guilt?

What do you mothers do about those scenarios?

[lovebeingamomma]

Just speaking on the guilt note, if you think not vaxing is best for your child, could you live with the guilt if your child died from a vaccine reaction, that you gave them just for the sake of someone else's child?  I couldn't.

[Jelli Belli]

I'm not really worried about a lethal vaccine reaction. From my research I'm not entirely convinced they exist and if they do it is so very, very rare. It would seem a lot more likely to me that an older child might have exposure to a contagain and infect my infant. I've been more against vaccination for possible auto-immune reactions as I have an auto immune disorder myself so I feel DD is at risk genetically. I worry about the vaccine possibly exacerbating things.

I know it all risk management decision...either way it a risk. It's just that through my reading I've never heard anybody disucuss the effect of not vaxing on the infants around an un-immunized child. It just made me wonder.

[ma2two]

Welcome to the forum!
 

Originally Posted by Jelli Belli 

I also know that measels is deadly in 75% of the cases that occur in children under the age of 6 mon. 

What is your source for that?

[lovebeingamomma]

Well than it's really up to you how you interpret the information.  I just know that the VPD's are so rare that it doesn't worry me at all.  And for the most part, you would know your kid is sick, so just don't bring them out and they won't spread it around. 

Originally Posted by Jelli Belli 

I'm not really worried about a lethal vaccine reaction. From my research I'm not entirely convinced they exist and if they do it is so very, very rare. It would seem a lot more likely to me that an older child might have exposure to a contagain and infect my infant. I've been more against vaccination for possible auto-immune reactions as I have an auto immune disorder myself so I feel DD is at risk genetically. I worry about the vaccine possibly exacerbating things.

I know it all risk management decision...either way it a risk. It's just that through my reading I've never heard anybody disucuss the effect of not vaxing on the infants around an un-immunized child. It just made me wonder.

[ammiga]

I think we all have to take responsibility for our own children. It is my responsibility to give my kids the healthiest start in life they can possibly get. By breastfeeding my children, I feel that they are protected from many illnesses and are building a strong immune system that protects them as infants and as they grow. They eat healthy, whole foods. They get sleep, sun, and have fun.

I can't ask my children to bear the weight of every person out there who may be at risk for certain things at their own expense. The best thing they can do for everyone else is to stay home when they are sick, practice good hygeine, and overall be as healthy as they can be.

When they are adults, they may choose to make a different decision. But as their mother, it is my job to protect them. I can treat a sick child. If needed, so can modern medicine. I do not know that I can treat a vaccine injured one.

ETA: Since DTaP isn't proven to prevent transmission of pertussis, worrying about getting other people sick would not be a reason I would consider vaxing my children.

[KateDavies45]

Originally Posted by Jelli Belli 

I'm not really worried about a lethal vaccine reaction.  From my research I'm not entirely convinced they exist and if they do it is so very, very rare.

Vaccine reactions are exactly what I worry about. I have two children in my family (related by blood) who at two different times had two extremely severe reactions to two different vaccines. Both of them now have developmental and physical delays that weren't there before the vaccine reactions. My best friend's brother (unrelated) had a severe reaction at 28mo and James went from a normal happy talking smiling laughing child to a shell of a kid, who doesn't talk or interact or want to be touched. at all. (he was diagnosed with autism after the reaction and I can say from first hand experiance that NONE of those signs had been there before he had that reaction.) 

A vaccine reaction may be a one in a million chance but DD even being born (she was the second twin of a heteroectopic pregnancy which ruptured...) was also a one in a million chance that the doctor told us couldn't possibly happen. He told us she was a tumor and I needed a D&C immediately to have her removed. If I had gone with the medical establishment instead of trusting my own instincts she wouldn't be here right now, so I just can't justify taking risks with her life when I know I can simply not vax her and not take the chance of her being another one in a million statistic....

[emmy526]

.if my non-immunized child made somebodies infant who was to young for immunizations sick. How would I deal with that guilt?

What do you mothers do about those scenarios?

You don't deal with that guilt because you are doing for YOUR kids, not someone else's. Its their responsibility to vax their own kids, its not your job to worry about it.  I haven't really had the thought cross my mind about the scenario because i'm only concerned about my kids. And i'm much more concerned about chemical diseases being injected into my kids' bodies, and the untold consequences of such actions. Much more concerned about the immune damage being done due to this practice,  than i am of my kids catching a disease for which they will have lifetime immunity.  I'm not concerned my unvaxed child will pass a VPD onto a vaxed child at all.. vaxing parents should have faith in the medical system. My unvaxed child is not a threat to a vaxed one. (theoretically)

[Virginia90]

I'm actually more afraid of a vaccinated kid infecting my unvaccinated kid. Some of the diseases are spread by children who were recently vaccinated against it. That's why some vaccines warn against being around people with "compromised immune systems" or newborns. The chances of my kiddo getting a wild VPD is extremely rare anyway.

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by Jelli Belli 

I'm not really worried about a lethal vaccine reaction. From my research I'm not entirely convinced they exist and if they do it is so very, very rare. It would seem a lot more likely to me that an older child might have exposure to a contagain and infect my infant. I've been more against vaccination for possible auto-immune reactions as I have an auto immune disorder myself so I feel DD is at risk genetically. I worry about the vaccine possibly exacerbating things.

I know it all risk management decision...either way it a risk. It's just that through my reading I've never heard anybody disucuss the effect of not vaxing on the infants around an un-immunized child. It just made me wonder.

 Nor would I be if I vaxed. I think death from a vaccine is probably fairly rare (but it does happen), however what about all the other potential problems/reactions, autoimmune issues only being a few? You are ok with that? I also don't know how you can say you are unsure that lethal vaccine reactions don't exsist. There have been a number of vaccine induced death cases compensated in the NVICP over the years and we all know how difficult it is to prove a case in this court. In fact death awards are capped at $250,000.

[Jelli Belli]

Originally Posted by emmy526 

You don't deal with that guilt because you are doing for YOUR kids, not someone else's. Its their responsibility to vax their own kids, its not your job to worry about it.  I haven't really had the thought cross my mind about the scenario because i'm only concerned about my kids. And i'm much more concerned about chemical diseases being injected into my kids' bodies, and the untold consequences of such actions. Much more concerned about the immune damage being done due to this practice,  than i am of my kids catching a disease for which they will have lifetime immunity.  I'm not concerned my unvaxed child will pass a VPD onto a vaxed child at all.. vaxing parents should have faith in the medical system. My unvaxed child is not a threat to a vaxed one. (theoretically)

But that's what I am worried about. My child...my future baby. If my child were to get sick I might not know and most assuredly my newborn would be exposed to that illness. I do worry other children getting sick (I can't help that...no baby deserves something life threatening...mine or somebody elses) but I'm most worried about my future little ones.

A unvaxinated child is a threat to a newborn who is too young for vaccines (if that is what the parent is doing). Nobody has answered the quesitons of how to keep your newborn safe around your older children when they aren't vaccinated and are out and about in the world coming in contact with all sorts of contagions. I can keep my newborn away from outside people who might infect her but I wouldn't be able to keep her away from her own siblings. KWIM.

[Chloebelle]

That's something you have to answer for yourself. It never crossed my mind with my 2nd child, and if I were to have more children, it wouldn't concern me at all. I BF and keep my body healthy to protect my newborn, and I work on keeping my children healthy through homeopathics, vitamins and a healthy diet. I feel that goes a lot further in protecting them from illness than vaccines. There are no guarantees either way. Nobody can answer this for you. You have to weigh out the risks and benefits and decide for yourself. Even if you vaccinate your older children, it does not mean they can't bring serious illness into your home.

Edited by Chloebelle - 8/4/11 at 3:04pm

[Virginia90]

You say you're worried about your unvaccinated child infecting your newborn, but what about unvaccinated adults? How many adults get their boosters? And how many didn't receive even half the vaccines they have now? I know I've only received 10 shots my whole life, so by current standards, I'm nowhere near "up to date"...In fact, do you get boosters or the shots you didn't receive as a kid? I admit it's a hard decision to make. When we was deciding, I always thought, "What if" for both sides...but we did what we felt was best for us.

[emmy526]

And what about all the disease out there for which there is no vaccine and can strike anyone? For instance, MRSA, and Necrotizing fasciitis(flesh eating virus)? those bacteria and virus particles are everywhere.  i had 4 kids and had no problems with  the other ones infecting the newborn with anything, he was a very healthy baby, EBF, organic homemade food,  and is now a healthy teen. He is hardly ever sick, and when he is, he gets it hard and fast, and gets over it just as easily.  He once asked why he didn't get a flu shot like his friends, and i asked him if his friends got it and his was reply was yes, and they still get the flu every year, so he didn't understand the point of the shot anyway..he doesn't get the flu either, year in and year out like his peers do...he hasn't been sick in 8 months..not even a cold. 

Believe me, you will know when your child is sick......even with a 2mo-old, if your gut is telling you something is wrong, listen to it, cuz its ususally right. 

[poorlittlefish]

I have 2 DD, a 1 year old and a 3 year old.  My older DD was never sick and actually had her first fever just this year.  My younger daughter (EBF, homemade baby food etc) has been sick much more than my older DD I believe because of what my older child brings home.  I understand your concern and feel the same way.

[writteninkursive]

My first was fully-vaccinated according to CDC schedule.  After her second serious reaction, I stopped vaccinating her completely and cut off her then 9-month-old sister's vaccines.  Our son has never had a single vaccine, and the baby we are pregnant with right now also will not have any vaccines.  The younger babies have never gotten any vaccine-"preventable" diseases (perhaps because they're not preventable by vaccines anyway), but it is not worth it to vaccinate your child and have them injured, to create the illusion of protecting other children in their environment.  Fatal vaccine reactions DO indeed happen (hello, VAERS?), and if *that* were to happen to your child after choosing to vax, you would never get past the guilt and regret. 

[japonica]

Originally Posted by Jelli Belli 

But that's what I am worried about. My child...my future baby. If my child were to get sick I might not know and most assuredly my newborn would be exposed to that illness. I do worry other children getting sick (I can't help that...no baby deserves something life threatening...mine or somebody elses) but I'm most worried about my future little ones.

A unvaxinated child is a threat to a newborn who is too young for vaccines (if that is what the parent is doing). Nobody has answered the quesitons of how to keep your newborn safe around your older children when they aren't vaccinated and are out and about in the world coming in contact with all sorts of contagions. I can keep my newborn away from outside people who might infect her but I wouldn't be able to keep her away from her own siblings. KWIM.

Yes, but vaccinating the older child is no guarantee that they wouldn't bring home the VAD anyway. It might, possibly reduce the risk, but in the literature for pertussis and measles notably, there are significant numbers of vaccinated children also reported with clinical cases of the diseases. Never mind, in the case of pertussis, the ones who are never diagnosed, never reported, and who do not display the "classic" symptoms...colonized, asymptomatic carriers.

My DD started preschool when my son was five months old. I never considered vaccinating him just because his sister might, possibly could maybe bring something home. An unvaccinated child is not a threat in my perception than any other adult or family member who is behind on their boosters, never vaccinated for that specific illness, whatever. Most cases of pertussis transmission to babies tend to come from adults in the social circle anyway, and I wasn't about to demand that all of my adult contacts get boosters, especially knowing that the vaccine does not prevent transmission of the bacteria.

My husband had a Tdap booster in 2002 as a work requirement. He was the one who brought pertussis home to our household in 2010. My unvaxed DD never caught it, but my 23 month old DS did. He recovered without complications after about five weeks. Vaccinating his sister wouldn't have made a difference to him. The booster for his dad didn't do it either. 

[Paigekitten]

It's something we have had to face, but I still decide not to vaccinate.  My oldest is partially vaxed, my younger daughter is completely unvaxed.  I know that my breastmilk does help protect them.  When my DD2 was an infant the whole family came down with what I presume was H1N1.  That was the first really bad illness my first daughter had, and she had just weaned a few months before, the baby was only mildly uncomfortable.  This spring my second daughter was only nursing every few weeks and we all caught a bad cold on an airplane.  I kept them home during their cold, it lasted about two weeks, then two weeks after that my second daughter developed a cough that lasted for about 3 months total.  I wonder if that was whooping cough, as my husband, DD1, and I quickly got over the cough and we all have had some pertussis vaccines. (The cough never developed the whoop sound, but looking back it seems very possible it could have been whooping cough.)

So yeah, it's possible, but I also know that our lifestyle supplements my children's immune systems.  We breastfeed, we eat well, I wear my babies, they don't get passed around, we wash our hands a lot.  They are healthy, and capable of dealing with illnesses they encounter.  If I wasn't going to breastfeed for about 2 years I'd be more inclined to reevaluate some of the vaccines, but then again, maybe not.

MMR isn't even started until 15 months, kids don't get complete immunity from one vaccine anyway, so the risk of an infant getting it is still there even if you decide to vaccinate that infant.  If your older child gets an MMR vaccine when you have a younger infant in the home they are still at risk of shedding from that vaccine.  As for potentially getting someone else's child sick, my responsibility is first and foremost to MY children and I would not make a decision to knowingly damage my children in theory that someone else might be less likely to become ill, even if I believed that my unvaccinated children were a risk, (which I don't, I worry more about their vaccinated children infecting mine). That said, I keep them home if they are sick, and I wished other parents would do the same, including after vaccines. (Measles can shed for up to SEVEN WEEKS after vaccination according to the CDC Pink Book.  I don't see ANYONE keeping their child at home that long after a vaccine in the interest of the younger infants out there)

Risk isn't something we can completely eliminate no matter what we do, we just have to look at all the information that is out there (or not out there when it comes to vaccine research) and make a decision with the risks each one of us know we can live with.

[ammiga]

Originally Posted by Jelli Belli 

But that's what I am worried about. My child...my future baby. If my child were to get sick I might not know and most assuredly my newborn would be exposed to that illness. I do worry other children getting sick (I can't help that...no baby deserves something life threatening...mine or somebody elses) but I'm most worried about my future little ones.

A unvaxinated child is a threat to a newborn who is too young for vaccines (if that is what the parent is doing). Nobody has answered the quesitons of how to keep your newborn safe around your older children when they aren't vaccinated and are out and about in the world coming in contact with all sorts of contagions. I can keep my newborn away from outside people who might infect her but I wouldn't be able to keep her away from her own siblings. KWIM.

• Breastfeed your newborn
• Practice good hygeine (hand washing, etc)
• Wear your baby
• Keep the older sibling's immune system strong (healthy diet, sleep, sun, etc)
• Know what to do when illness hits (for us, we up vitamins, no fever reducers, increase rest)
• You can't "keep a newborn safe" from everything. Know that everyone is going to bring home germs, most not vaccine available, and that your baby might get sick. That is ok. Otherwise healthy babies get sick, and then they get better. And then they have a stronger immune system for the next time.