Agression from gifted dd

[moonbeam7627]

I have been told that gifted children can show a little more agression and agitation than children who fall more in the "typical" range, but what is "normal" agression out of these children and does anyone have any ideas on how to head it off? I think, from what I see, there is a need to be in control of the situations because she "knows" how things are supposed to go, but how do you teach them that there are so many possibilities in every situation. she also is afraid to try things that may be new to her, or that she could make a mistake on because just the thought of making a mistake is so overwhelming to her. When she does try new things and she makes a mistake it can cause some MAJOR shut-down. Any ideas on how to deal with this in ways that encourage her to continue to try new things and get involved in group activites and games would be greatly appreciated. I don't like to "force" her to try things, and I feel that that can be counterproductive to trying things in the future. Plus if we try to "make" her participate is when some of this agression really shows itself.

[ollyoxenfree]

Is she dealing with a case of perfectionism and possibly overexcitability or some sensory processing issues? Both can be quite overwhelming and the frustration and anxiety may be presenting as aggression and agitation.

You don't say how old she is. My advice may differ a little depending on whether she's 2 or 6 or 12. With an older child you can discuss their emotions a little more. You can help them to identify what they are feeling and work through strategies to manage their frustration and anxiety. It's harder to do that with toddlers. Generally, though, for perfectionists, I'd try to remove any hint of competition from activities and encourage them to try open-ended activities that don't demand a particular result. Get her to establish a realistic expectation of performance from the outset - acknowledge that she'll make mistakes and need to develop skills before she's proficient. Let her experience development and improvement in a low risk endeavour and reinforce that practice and repetition help build skills. I'd go on, but since I'm not sure this is helpful, I'll stop for right now. 

Perhaps a little more detail from you about the child and the situations where she is struggling will inspire more thoughts, if you care to share. You could also search previous threads about gifted children and perfectionism or overexcitabilities (OE) if you think these are issues you are seeing at home. 

[Roar]

Some more detail would help. How old is she? Does she go to school? What does the aggression look like? What does the "MAJOR SHUT DOWN" look like?

[MomofSev]

Our son was like this as a young toddler, too. We just made sure to keep encouraging him to keep trying and praised his efforts even if they didn't yield his expected results. Now (he's 4) he will encourage others by saying "good job" or "good try,  you'll get it next time" or "that was a great try"..etc.

[moonbeam7627]

she is 4, I diddn't realize that I did not post that. The shut down can come out in different forms, sometimes she will scream as loud as she can and begin throwing things and kicking us and sometimes she will just hold her hands over her ears and glare at us, and still kick at us. This happens really any time she is directed to do something, or told that she can not do something. It seems to be related to any time she feels that she has no choice in something (not choice in doing the activity, but the activity would have directions that she would need to follow to get the correct turn out). she is not in school, she wants to go, but with her agression I am afraid to send her because preschools will kick agressive kids out.

[MomofSev]

Maybe explain that, if it is a game that she is playing, if she doesn't follow the rules, the game will discontinue until she can decide to follow the rules. Four is an age where most children are testing boundaries: how much can I get away with? how much can mommy take before she really gets mad? ... that type of thing. The kicking is something that I would try to get a handle on. She may have to be told to do things she doesn't like in school, even in kindergarten, etc., and you wouldn't want her to kick the teachers -or other kids. If it is an instructional activity, you can allow her to do it that way and see that it doesn't produce the correct results, then show her how to do it the correct way (or let her keep trying until she gets it right)? Four is also when they really start being independent, or at least my son has had a major jump on independence since turning 4. He likes to do things himself and usually he keeps trying until he figures it out.. other times, he gets frustrated and will allow me to show him how to do it -then try it himself.

[Tjej]

My son is 3, but I can see him still doing this at 4.  For my son, what usually works best is a snuggle.  It is quite counter-intuitive to snuggle someone who is trying to kick you. :)  I will generally have him sit and calm down.  We wait until he calms down, then we talk and snuggle.  With my DS, being tired or hungry makes this type of behavior way more common. HTH.

Tjej

ETA: FWIW, my DS has been in group settings without me (not preschool, but like it) and he does very well.  He doesn't behave that way towards other children besides his sister, and he generally keeps his temper to times at home.

[MomofSev]

That's a good point. Even though she is doing this to you (her parents) she may not do it in a setting away from you. But you know her better than we do!

[meemee]

she sounds like a really intense child who is protesting when she is not getting her way. has she always been this intense? 

as pp posted the 3 golden rules are still very important to take the edge off the reaction - not hungry, enough rest and enough exercise.

perhaps you need to read "the Explosive Child".

one of your lines stood out for me Any ideas on how to deal with this in ways that encourage her to continue to try new things and get involved in group activites and games 

she is still 4. young enough that you should not expect her to do your suggestive activities - esp. if you get such reactions. by 5 or 6 i can see you having some chances. is she a loner, a homebody? and you are encouraging her to do something she is not? is she shy? 

dd's bf was like this. his parents had to wait till he was in first grade till he started any group activity and the change (to the level the parents would like) didnt come till middle of 3rd grade. now if u see him you would not believe he was the same quiet homebody. he still prefers one on one and doesnt like crowds but he can tolerate it for a little while. 

are you guys walking on eggshells afraid to tick her off? or is it only when you ask her to try something?

is your concern mainly coz you are worried about school? how will she be when she starts K next year? i would put this fear at rest. usually kids behave the opposite at home and at school. including mine. however if this continues in school too, (actually why not even now) diet may be an issue. many children react to dyes in food with explosive behaviour. esp. red dye (you'd be surprised how many foods they are in). i would research diet just to rule it out. 

another idea - has she been always this way? this shut down? or is it kinda new over the past few months. when does her growth spurt happen? in summer? (i didnt notice this about dd till she was 4 1/2) right before dd's growth spurt actually happens - she loses it. 

[moonbeam7627]

thank you all for your input. We do usually do time-outs for hitting and other behaviors that can be damaging to people or property, but the other day I tried doing what at our church a lady called a "holy hug" in a new kind of way and although durring it she was much more intense, when she calmed down, it was done. She usually runs off to her room for "alone time" after she has had a time-out and we talk and make up, but with this, it was better. I had tried before to just hold her in a regular hug position but then to keep her from hitting, kicking and biting me, I ended up having to restrain and hold her in ways that were not so productive, but this time I sat her on the floor in her time-out spot, wrapped my whole self around her, put one leg over hers so that she could not kick me and held her hands together with mine so that she could not hit or scratch me and because she was faced away from me she could not bite me. Oh, and my arms were underneath hers so that she couldn't bite my arms, I then just continued to whisper that I loved her and I was not going to allow her to do harm to herslef or anybody else. Yes she resisted, and tried to say I was hurting her, but she figured out that if she just relaxed, I was just holding her, not restraining her. When it was done, it was done, she turned around and hugged me, diddn't need to run off to her room, and we diddn't have to extend the time out until she was ready to talk, I had talked to her while holding her.

Yes I do always take into concideration hunger and sleepyness, and we have removed most food dyes from her diet(never red, yellow only sometimes, blue slushies or kool aid if we make it), and her dairy intake is low because of a known alergy too.

Oh, I also, today at church, got her to go to the God science table by telling her that she did not have to do what they were doing, but she did have to go over and look. That seemed to help, because that left her some choice, but also stopped her from rejecting the other kids that were over there. This is how we had to do with my dss who has Aspergers, only he was 9 and 10 at the time. Now that I say that, I guess a lot of this would be normal social behavior for her age. No, she does not tend to be a "loner" like he was, in fact she craves for the other kids to be around, and unfortunately will bully a bit if she feels that she can, but I think that comes from being so much younger than her siblings.

I started reading "the explosive child" and one that I think is called "taming the dragon", in regards to dd1 (now 16). Dd2 (who this thread is about is more strong spirited than explosive at this point. ( I too am strong willed where-in lies the real problem with me and all 3 of my children). I don't like to have to break their spirits, which in the end had to happen for dd1 and thats how I think it went into explosiveness. Dd2's strong free spirit sometimes makes her want to do things that really are not safe, like wanting to ride her bike in the road, cut up fresh veggies, climb to the top of ladders ect. These are some of the things when she is told that she can not do them will trigger some of the behaviors also. So I guess this sort of leads to a re-wording of my original question, has anyone noticed frustration in their gifted child from the physical limitations of just being the age they are compared to where their abilities are?

[MomofSev]

Wow! Thank you for sharing the "holy hug" concept. I may try this if my son is having an issue, which (thankfully) hasn't happened very much in the past few months!

Yes to your rewording of your question. My son is experiencing this in the same type of situations as your daughter. It can also happen when he's playing with children much older than he is, and they are doing something that he wants to do but he is not old enough (skateboarding, fireworks during the 4th, or even television shows that kids watch that he is not allowed to -spongebob is the main one). As for cutting food up, we have just recently started allowing our son to use a butter knife (well supervised) to learn to use a knife and fork simultaneously to cut food up. This has calmed him a bit from the desire to want to use a "real" knife to help cut foods up.

[moonbeam7627]

Just be forwarned...it may not be pretty in the beginning, but I have been promised that it will get better.