I hate what our family has become

[Dolphin]

And it all started on a horrifying downhill slope when I became pregnant with our (surprise) third son two years ago and moved to a new bigger house away from friends and anything that's closer than a 30 minute drive.  I just am a horrible mother to three little boys.  My middle child needed me for at least another year or two (he's 4 now) to himself, because of his personality, so now he's just mad and hateful all the time.  I yell way too much.  I'm not fun anymore, I'm tired and grumpy.  My 8 year old is on the computer all...day...long.  The baby screams constanly.   I hate pretty much every parenting tactic my husband uses, but my tactics or attempts at them dont' seem to be producing happy balanced children, so I don't have anything better to offer.  They hate bedtime, every meal time is a battle or drama of some kind, nothing goes smoothly...ever. 

I really just need to vent.  I know I need some support or help or time alone, but it's just not easy to make it happen and there's always a price to pay when I come back home from taking time to myself.  The house is a disaster, the baby is screaming, something is broken or destroyed.  I don't want to do this anymore but there is noone to turn in my resignation to.

thanks for listening.

[GuildJenn]

Oh, a big hug to you. Those are hard feelings.

I find when I'm feeling that way the old classic How to Talk So Kids Will Listen helps, because it validates my feelings as a parent as well. Well that and a trashy novel and a bath. Can you get the novel and bath without arriving to a trashed environment?

[aHikaru]

I know someone who has three boys and describes similar situations, while also terrified at the thought of trying to have a girl, again. It seems, more often than not, that having more than one boy is a lot of work.

One day at a time.

[Dolphin]

thanks jenn...that's one i haven't read but I ordered it tonight on Amazon for Saturday delivery.  Maybe it will have some tools in there for me to try to turn it around.  I don't see a bath/novel in my near future though - I'm lucky to get a shower alone:).

[Dolphin]

having three boys has absolutely pushed me way beyond my capacity to be a good parent.

[insidevoice]

I have three kids- my oldest is 9, and I have a newly 3 yo boy and an almost 2 yo boy. 

We will have #4 in Dec sometime.

DH is not here.  He works away so I am alone 24/7.

Survival techniques matter! If what is happening in your house is not working- change it!  Here it helps to have a predictable pattern in the day.  When they know what is coming next, there is  much less chaos.  It felt a little boring to me at first, but the kids thrive on it. Frustrated angry behavior isn't allowed in our home.  I'm sure the kids think that rule was made for them- but the reality was that I needed it for me.  They escalated as I did.  Once I decided I wasn't being the parent I want to be and took steps to change that, their behavior improved- a lot.

I shut down the computer time- particularly for my oldest. Being on it for a bit was fine, but all day was not happening.  She balked at first, but after a week it was easier.  

EVERYBODY has downtime after lunch in the afternoon.  Even the oldest.  She can have a book, there is no requirement for sleep, but there WILL be quiet in the house.  I will not use that time to clean or do anything 'worklike' .  That is time for everyone to recharge- including Mom.  It's about 90 minutes long. It took about 2 weeks to get this going reliably, but with persistence on my part (especially with the youngest who fought sleep like craaaaazy) but we got there.  If a daycare can manage it, so can a mom. 

If the house is a disaster- it's time to purge stuff.  There shouldn't be enough stuff in the home to create a disaster in a fairly short time.  

Meals are battles- look at why.  Change your expectations.   Choose not to have the battle- if the kids try to engage in one, be firm and direct, but don't fight.  For me, I had to learn to say 'ok'.  If a child screams that they hate green beans, I simply put a small spoonful on the plate and say ok.  If they eat them, they eat them.  If they don't they don't.  My job is to offer the food, not to force them to eat it.  Dessert here happens once or twice a week- not connected to anything like good behavior or eating their veggies.  It just is.  The food fights stopped. 

Bedtime battles... we've struggled with this lately.  Honestly, I set bedtime on a back burner until the days are shorter.  They stay up until it is dark, and then we curl up together and read a couple chapters in a chapter book.  By the time that is done, they settle down fairly well. 

You need to figure out what is overwhelming you- specifically, and decide how to change things so you don't become overwhelmed.  You also have to make a conscious effort to choose not to become frustrated and reactive, as it just creates a really messy cycle. 

Since your DH is around and you aren't alone, it's time to have a very direct discussion about his helping out. 

[BroodyWoodsgal]

Yeah...and here I was about to answer this post. Insidevoice knocked this one out of the park...everything she said, times a thousand!

Keep your head up, mama, you will make it through. I swear, the biggest thing for me, is being on the same page as DH. If you and DH aren't on the same page, it's gonna feel like Fail every time. You guys get your act together, get honest (but be kind!) empower each other and be a united front and see how much things shift. Even when he's not there, you will feel his support and encouragement. Self esteem is a huge part of parenting. If you feel like a failure all day long, every day is going to suck, bad. We'r rooting for you, I'm so sorry you are in such a bad place right now.

[~Charlie's~Angel~]

BIG HUGS coming from me, mama.  Im the mother of a 3.5 YO boy and a 2.5 YO boy.  ITS HARD!!!!!  They run me ragged.  I yell way more then I should (unfortunatly, im loud by nature.  It started way before I became a mother or even hit puberty) I have absolutly no idea how I would do it without a village nearby.  My husband is not around nearly as much as I would like, but hes atleast around occassionaly to give mama a break.  I dont have any advice, and Im sorry about that.  Just wanted you to know that I totall commiserate with how you feel. 

Insidevoice, Hat goes off you.  Your a GODDESS!

[ollyoxenfree]

Insidevoice has given some great advice. 

It sounds like you are very lonely and struggling with isolation. Even though it's a hassle to get out, it will help to make some contact with other people on a regular basis. It may also help if you hire a mother's helper to visit a couple of times per week. Lots of teens are willing to do it, so it doesn't have to be be really expensive. 

Is this mostly a summertime-kids-are-getting-antsy situation (you mention the 8 y.o on the computer all day) or are you homeschooling? If it's seasonal, then summer day camps or library programs might keep the 8 y.o. and even the 4 y.o occupied for a few hours and give you some relief. If it's a permanent homeschooling situation, then homeschooling groups may be a partial answer. You'll likely find some other parents to socialize with a little for yourself.  

(((hugs))) It isn't easy.  

[Linda on the move]

When does school start? Will the 4 year old be in pre K?

Our house flows more smoothly during the school year because it sets the schedule, so things like meals and bedtimes and getting up times happen at the same time every day without me having to force them to happen. My kids are happier and easier to live with with a very solid routine, and sadly, I can't make that happen in the summer.

As far as meals, I make one meal but the kids have the option of eating a yogurt or making a sandwich if they want. I'm not into a lot of drama over food, but do keep easy healthy things on hand. 

I find that having positive, upbeat music on in the background helps set the tone for our home. It's this odd thing for me, because it seems to simple and yet has a pretty powerful effect. It helps us keep the TV off, and seems to lift everyone's mood.

I hope you have a nice day today.

[Dolphin]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts and advice and hugs.  Insidevoice, you have given some great advice.  I honestly think if my DH were gone all the time, it would be easier somehow because he and I disagree so much about discipline. 

I'll clarify a few things.  I don't homeschool but the older boys (8 and 4) have been home mostly all summer because we just moved to a house that, to me, is way too in the country for my comfort level.  The problem is that I didn't realize how difficult it would be until we moved.  The closest day camps are 20 miles or so each way, and my littlest (13 mos) HATES the car, screams often, and it's just miserable getting to and from anywhere.  School starts in a couple of weeks, and I really think that will help a lot.  I'll have to drive a ways for preschool, but the oldest will ride the bus. 

I guess thinking about it all, the problem can be traced to my 4 yo's very difficult personality, and the fact that I'm spent from dealing with a fussy baby and don't have the patience to give him that he needs.  He doesn't listen at all, has the impulse control of a 2 year old, is really angry that his baby brother was born, and just constantly pushes every limit.  My DH leans towards a very mainstream way of parenting, and actually spanked him last week when he threw a chain at the baby's face.  I was devastated and just feel like we've hit bottom.  I started out as a patient older mom trying to do everything right for my child.  Now with three, I just try to get through the day without jumping in my car and driving away.

On the meal issues, i too don't want to fight that battle and am usually just one to say "if you don't like it, you'll have to make your own...".  But DH is just done with the pickiness and every meal the oldest asking for something different from what we have prepared.  So meals usually end with someone crying or yelling because my oldest doesn't want what is in front of him and my DH tells him he has to eat it or go hungry, all while I sit there with my hands in my head wondering how things went so wrong. 

DH thinks I'm too soft.  I follow through, but I also try to talk about things and give reasons.  DH is more of a "because I said so" kind of guy.  We are just so different in that way, and to his credit he has given me the chance to make it work my way but it's not working my way!!  I have a super picky eater and a 4 year old who is constantly breaking things or hitting his brother or just causing chaos.  Oh and all while the baby screams. 

I just don't know where to start.  I think school will help though, I hope.

[Caneel]

Another big thumbs up for insidevoice's post.

OP - I am experiencing some of the same feelings and I only have 1 DS.  

I used to sneer at those "schedule" parents but now I can completely understand how it keeps a family sane.  Bedtime was getting out of control and we have taken some step that are really paying off.  I now am filled withdread while walking upstairs.

I am also decluttering.  It is insane the amount of stuff my DS gets out "to play with" that does nothing but sit on the floor, creating a mess.

[Dolphin]

I just reread your post Insidevoice.  The part about DH helping...is an issue that is so hard for me.  That's where the bedtime struggles come from.  He does bedtime with the older boys (when he's not travelling) so i can have a little break to get the kitchen cleaned up.  The problem is they don't want to do bedtime with him.  I'm the "feel good" parent, and they want that at night.  Honestly when he's not home, they don't fight bedtime at all, but it's all me 24/7 and all through the night with a nursing waking baby.  So when he's home, I really need him to do the bedtime thing.  But seriously almost every night is him prying the boys away from me to take them to bed.  They hate bedtime with him. 

So I really don't know what to do about that. 

[Mummoth]

We were both raised in homes where you eat what is put in front of you, and clean your plate. DH would have done things that way, but I can remember being a picky eater myself, trying to force down foods that literally made me gag, and being made to sit at the table until bedtime in front of a plateful of food I refused to touch. I won't do that to our children, I don't believe it did me any good at all. The middle ground we found for our picky eater was "You have to try a bite of everything because your tongue is still growing. Something that tasted bad last week might taste good today and you won't know until you try" Once she's had a bite of everything, she can have more of the stuff she likes (I try to make sure she'll eat at least part of the meal) If the only thing she likes is a veggie then she can have a PB sandwich (made by herself) and if the only thing she likes is the meat or starch, then she can get herself an apple.

When she says she doesn't like something, I believe her. It's truthful that she's still growing, and that people's tastes change as they age. When we haven't heaped foods she doesn't like onto her plate, it isn't getting wasted because leftovers can be put in the fridge for my lunch the next day. I don't lift a finger to get her an alternative, and the choices she's given are still somewhat balanced, so there's no harm done. We started this way when DD was 4 and she's 7 now. She's still a bit of a picky eater, but more and more often she surprises us with things that she's at least willing to try. She only gets herself the alternative food about once a week now, whereas it was almost every day when we started.

[TinkerBelle]

There is a huge difference between truly not liking a food and not wanting to eat what is being served. In our house, if you have tried it and truly don't like it, there are other things you can eat. But, I am not a short order cook and refuse to cook five different meals.

[A&A]

Small changes can make a big difference.  First of all, I'd suggest not letting your 8 year old be on the computer all day.  Is there a library nearby?  Get him reading, or send him outside to play.  Also regarding the 8 year old, the meal battles can disappear instantaneously if you'd be more flexible on what you feed him.  Children have very little control of their lives; one thing they really want to be in control of (and should be in control of, I think) is what goes inside their bodies--i.e., food.  And being a picky eater is actually genetic:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/body/science-picky-eaters.html

What can the 4 yo. do to help you with the baby?  Bring you a diaper or a towel?  The more he gets to help, the better he will feel about the situation. 

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by Dolphin 

we just moved to a house that, to me, is way too in the country for my comfort level.  The problem is that I didn't realize how difficult it would be until we moved.  ...

 Now with three, I just try to get through the day without jumping in my car and driving away.

I see flags in your posts for PPD/depression. I don't know if you've thought about how you are feeling that way, or may be if doing so would help you shift some of it.

Moving raises the risk for PPD, and the impact on a mother with small children is something that most people really can't imagine. I've felt so many things that you are feeling right now, and I feel like I could write you a book, but I'll to stick with just a couple of points.

First, even though your baby was not planned, I believe that there is a reason that he came to your family, and that the spacing between he and your middle child is perfect for some reason. It may not become clear to you *why* for several years, but I don't think it is an accident that this particular soul chose to become a part of your family and the specific point in time that he did. 

Your 4 year old has a very limited perspective so couldn't possibly understand that, but as you come to believe it to be true, it will get easier for him. As long as you believe that the baby screwed up the 4 year olds life, he'll have trouble accepting his little brother. When you start to accept that his brother is a blessing to him -- even though you don't know exactly how -- it will gradually start to get easier for him. (I went through something similar with my second child, and if you want the story of how the insane spacing between them ended up working out perfectly for my older DD, I can tell you the story)

Second, your husband's different parenting style has  role for your kids. I think that kids get 2 parents for a reason, and that if you let them work out their relationship a bit, they'll figure it out. (I'm assuming that he's a good guy who loves his kids and just sees things from a different perspective than you.) Gradually allowing yourself to see that you both bring something different to your children's lives and most likely balance each other, will make it easier for your kids. They pick up in the conflict between you, and unconsciously are playing you against each other to figure out who is really calling the shots. My DH is more of a cut and dry, no nonsense guy, too. As the kids have gotten older, he's the parent who can help the kids find their strength, partly because he always expects the best from them and completely believes it's possible. He and I balance each other out well, but I couldn't see that when the kids were little.

Last (for now) is that the language you are thinking in right now is making everything a little bigger and more permanent that it is. Your family is going through a really rough time right now. (Most families do at some point). But you titled your thread "I hate what our family has become" like you guys are done -- and the way things are today is the way you are as people. That's not true -- this isn't WHAT you've become, it's just WHERE you are for a short time. You already know that things will get a little better when school starts. You also know that in another year this will all be easier because they kids will all be bigger and you will be all settled in where you live. May be starting to shift from  "I hate what our family has become" to "I hate this difficult phase that we are passing through" would help.

[lightheartedmom]

Originally Posted by insidevoice 

I have three kids- my oldest is 9, and I have a newly 3 yo boy and an almost 2 yo boy. 

We will have #4 in Dec sometime.

DH is not here.  He works away so I am alone 24/7.

Survival techniques matter! If what is happening in your house is not working- change it!  Here it helps to have a predictable pattern in the day.  When they know what is coming next, there is  much less chaos.  It felt a little boring to me at first, but the kids thrive on it. Frustrated angry behavior isn't allowed in our home.  I'm sure the kids think that rule was made for them- but the reality was that I needed it for me.  They escalated as I did.  Once I decided I wasn't being the parent I want to be and took steps to change that, their behavior improved- a lot.

I shut down the computer time- particularly for my oldest. Being on it for a bit was fine, but all day was not happening.  She balked at first, but after a week it was easier.  

EVERYBODY has downtime after lunch in the afternoon.  Even the oldest.  She can have a book, there is no requirement for sleep, but there WILL be quiet in the house.  I will not use that time to clean or do anything 'worklike' .  That is time for everyone to recharge- including Mom.  It's about 90 minutes long. It took about 2 weeks to get this going reliably, but with persistence on my part (especially with the youngest who fought sleep like craaaaazy) but we got there.  If a daycare can manage it, so can a mom. 

If the house is a disaster- it's time to purge stuff.  There shouldn't be enough stuff in the home to create a disaster in a fairly short time.  

Meals are battles- look at why.  Change your expectations.   Choose not to have the battle- if the kids try to engage in one, be firm and direct, but don't fight.  For me, I had to learn to say 'ok'.  If a child screams that they hate green beans, I simply put a small spoonful on the plate and say ok.  If they eat them, they eat them.  If they don't they don't.  My job is to offer the food, not to force them to eat it.  Dessert here happens once or twice a week- not connected to anything like good behavior or eating their veggies.  It just is.  The food fights stopped. 

Bedtime battles... we've struggled with this lately.  Honestly, I set bedtime on a back burner until the days are shorter.  They stay up until it is dark, and then we curl up together and read a couple chapters in a chapter book.  By the time that is done, they settle down fairly well. 

You need to figure out what is overwhelming you- specifically, and decide how to change things so you don't become overwhelmed.  You also have to make a conscious effort to choose not to become frustrated and reactive, as it just creates a really messy cycle. 

Since your DH is around and you aren't alone, it's time to have a very direct discussion about his helping out. 

I don't usually frequent this part of MDC but I saw this post and the frustration and discouragement struck a chord with me. And then I saw the above advice.
Insidevoice, you woman, are my hero right now. If the voices in my head alll sounded like you - i would be a totally kick butt mom. :-) I want to be like you when I grow up. I also want you to come and be my best friend and talk sense back into me when I abandon my attempts at a routine for my two girls after only two days of trying.
Lady, you could have the best mom blog ever writing both-barrels, no punches pulled advice like that.
I cannot add a single thing to what you said. I will wander away totally inspired now. :-) thanks.
And to the original poster - there's a lot of good advice on here. I'm sorry things are so rough for you right now. I have always been a pretty brood-y woman so it's hard sometimes to not see the bad circumstances of the moment as permanent and everlasting. My older daughter went through some really rough stuff the last few months (and generally ages 31/2-5 have been wretched for us, behaviorwise). She is getting through it and I am hoping to come out on the other side of it a more patient mommy. For awhile there (and more infrequently now even), she is so demanding of my attention that I felt like I had to neglect everything else (including my 2yo) to give her what she needed. She's getting through it.
You will get through it. Don't despair.

[Dolphin]

Linda, I just read your post and tears are flowing (and I'm not really a cryer:)) so thank you.  I think you helped more than you know. 

[mumkimum]

From someone else who's family is going through a stressful time - it is much more helpful for me not to focus on stopping the 'bad parenting' things (like too much yelling, bedtime/meal struggles, etc) issues and to focus on doing positive/helpful things more often (hug more, sit down & read more books, watch fun movies with snacks together instead of be on the computer at the same time, etc).  They often help the other issues too with the kids.  Plus I don't end up getting on my own case ('dang! I just yelled again!!  I wasn't supposed to yell today!') quite so often which makes me feel more hopeless about it all.  

Walking/outdoor time seems to also really help us when everyone just always seems tense too often so getting outside for splashing in a kiddie pool, frisbee, walks.