When do they learn tact? Ideas for teaching it?

[LynnS6]

Dd (7) is verbally skilled and very observant. She's also very sure of her own opinions. It is increasingly leading her to make some rather tactless comments.

Examples:

On her thank you note to her teacher during teacher appreciation week she wrote "I love learning new things from you. I never thought I'd learn a thing from you, but I have."

On the bday card she made for my dad she wrote "Dear grandpa, you are the nicest grandpa (plus the only one I've ever met)." (Dh's dad died 16 years ago.)

To my mom, she said, "You may be blind, but you can still spell!"

To me, she said yesterday when we were comparing hair color and she noted the grey hair on my head, "At least the hair on your legs isn't grey!"

None of these are awful, just not very thoughtful. (Though I do wonder if leg hair ever does go grey.) My mom is touchy about being blind and dd has been told this. Telling grandpa he's the nicest because he's the only one she's ever met is sort of a backhanded compliment, as was the one for her teacher.

We've talked about how commenting on people's looks is not polite. People already know how they look. She's starting to get it. But for the 'brutal honesty', I don't know how to address it.

She also tends to sound very 'bossy' when she speaks to other kids, and it's starting to affect her ability to make friends. She doesn't suffer fools gladly, and can't suppress how she feels. While I don't really want her to suppress her feelings, you can't talk to your friends like their idiots and expect them to stay around.

[AllisonR]

Originally Posted by LynnS6 

Dd (7) is verbally skilled and very observant. She's also very sure of her own opinions. It is increasingly leading her to make some rather tactless comments.

Examples:

On her thank you note to her teacher during teacher appreciation week she wrote "I love learning new things from you. I never thought I'd learn a thing from you, but I have."

OH my - thank you for that. That's the funniest thing I have read, all day.
Maybe she doesn't lack tact? Maybe she understand irony though, and is working on how to do it subtly?

Ok, seriously, I lack tact. I have always been honest. Yes, it is a life skill you can learn, but some people learn it later than others, and maybe your DD will take a little longer. I don't think I had much until maybe age 10 or later. I also think this is much harder on girls, who are supposed to beat around the bush. Guys are allowed to be clear, and do not get upset when their buddies are the same.

On the plus side, some day some guy will really appreciate her for saying "I am frustrated becuase you did XYZ, and next time you need to do PDQ instead or I'll be really p*ssed" as opposed to some subtle, beaten around the bush expression which he is supposed to interpret and guess her feelings from, and then her being disappointed when he fails miserably.

Another plus is as an adult she might be able to use it to her advantage. For example, there are times I think "I should not say XYZ, I need to be more subtle" but then I realize many of my friends say they actually appreciate my honesty. And frankly I realize I can get away with it because my friends expect it. "Oh, Allison is a crazy artist, she is allowed to say stuff like that. Oh Allison is a foreigner, she can say that." Even when I do know better.

But it is a valuable life skill, even if you don't always abide by the rules. "How do you like my new blouse". "Oh, lovely pattern but the cut is a bit off in my opinion" sounds a lot more kind than "Awful, you look like a beached whale."

I'm still laughing at her post to her teacher though. I hope you let her send it. Way to go DD!

[Imakcerka]

Oh she's working on her funny bone.  I was terrible when I was around that age.  I didn't say the nicest things either.  My mom gave me a notebook where I could write all the things I wanted to say first.  Then she would look it over and tell me why it may not be appropriate to say.  Usually she would laugh so it didn't make me feel bad.  I got the reaction I wanted but I also learned somethings just should leave my mind.  I think without her guidance on proper etiquette I would have suffered later.

[mamazee]

I think it's learned through practice and reptition, so each time you see something like that, I would say, "It's really nice until you get to this part" or "A nicer way to put this is" or "Adding in this unnecessary detail makes it less nice because" until she picks up on it.

[aparent]

  I think I see some tact in the examples you give.

In the first she doesn't say, "I thought you were a

poor teacher but I learned anyways." She might be

saying, "I didn't know if I could learn from you but

you got me to learn despite the difficulties."

  If she used "plus" in the second example perhaps

she saying how doubly lucky she is.  Her grampa's

not only the nicest but he's also the only gramp she

knows; not that he's the nicest because he's the only

one she knows.

  In the other examples she seems to be trying to be

tactful and maybe is a but awkward in the attempt as

she first says something and then tries to make it OK.

  Of course demonstrating tact would be one method

of affecting her. If that card to her grandpa is around,

reread it with her, and perhaps say you feel you the

same way; you have the nicest dad in the world and

he's your only dad too. Lucky twice.

   How about dress up games with her as a princess or Kate

Middleton wherein she's the the princess and maybe her

father's the prime minister and you hold "court" wherein

she is the people's princess and they love her because

she treats her subjects like friends and never has a harsh

word for them.  You or her father as prime minister wisper

to the queen what the deal is as each "supplicant" approaches

the throne. "Your highness, this subject is very poor and

doesn't have food for her children and her husband's sick.

She's very sensitive. I recommend the upmost gentleness

and tact."

   You play the peasant supplicant and look weepy and

miserable. If your daughter is tactful, or comes forward to hug

you, you brighten. If she shows no tact you cry more. The

prime minister gives hints and guidance and always

compliments the princess. "You will be the best queen

in a thousand years!"

   This might add to her bossiness so she should be the

people's princess who doesn't speak down to her subjects

or perhaps some other game would be better.

[meemee]

Lynn, you have two issues you've brought up. 

the first issue - if you really look at what she is saying she isnt really wrong. she is making an observation. i have a dd that does that too. and then doesnt understand what's wrong with what she has said. so as mamazee pointed out - practise and repeatition. its not something you can teach before hand. its something dd IS getting a hang of. i dont say anything before (dd is ultrasensitive to being warned of the possibility of future mistakes - she sees that as rubbing it in) or while we talk. but once she says it i note it and when the time is right and we have time to talk i point out what was socially inappropriate to say. i point out how it hurts feelings. that speaks to her. i also point out my own mistakes. or i point out when i wanted to say something inappropriate but stopped myself because while it was wrong, it was the truth (this is big for dd) yet it could hurt feelings. so she is getting that while there is nothing wrong in what you said, people see things differently and react differently. so even if its an observation it still is not right. if you can figure out what language ur dd understands best (with mine its anything linked to being kind) she will pick it up. but i also think just maturing and growing older they will realise their mistake and get more tactful. 

second issue - while you can point out when she IS bossy when you see it, i think life will teach them how their behaviour will lose them friends. parents of older kids - have told me this is the age for this. i see dd having love hate relationships with her friend because of the bossy attitude. i think bossy is the way they figure out how to interact socially. i am sure your dd is not being bossy all the time - just sometimes. 

i also notice dd  finds kids 5 and older particularly irritating. according to her they are grown up enough to behave. i think it also brings up jealousy issues. i have to remind her that just coz they are bigger and have the vocab she cannot expect teh same out of them like her own age kids. and if those kids are bossy or demanding - oh boy!!! 

with 4 and younger kids - dd is the best assistant caregiver ever. 

[pupsnelda]

 sorry, I LOVE your daughter!
 

Originally Posted by LynnS6 

Dd (7) is verbally skilled and very observant. She's also very sure of her own opinions. It is increasingly leading her to make some rather tactless comments.

Examples:

On her thank you note to her teacher during teacher appreciation week she wrote "I love learning new things from you. I never thought I'd learn a thing from you, but I have."

On the bday card she made for my dad she wrote "Dear grandpa, you are the nicest grandpa (plus the only one I've ever met)." (Dh's dad died 16 years ago.)

To my mom, she said, "You may be blind, but you can still spell!"

To me, she said yesterday when we were comparing hair color and she noted the grey hair on my head, "At least the hair on your legs isn't grey!"

None of these are awful, just not very thoughtful. (Though I do wonder if leg hair ever does go grey.) My mom is touchy about being blind and dd has been told this. Telling grandpa he's the nicest because he's the only one she's ever met is sort of a backhanded compliment, as was the one for her teacher.

We've talked about how commenting on people's looks is not polite. People already know how they look. She's starting to get it. But for the 'brutal honesty', I don't know how to address it.

She also tends to sound very 'bossy' when she speaks to other kids, and it's starting to affect her ability to make friends. She doesn't suffer fools gladly, and can't suppress how she feels. While I don't really want her to suppress her feelings, you can't talk to your friends like their idiots and expect them to stay around.

[meemee]

Originally Posted by pupsnelda 

 sorry, I LOVE your daughter!

true :) when i read her comments i thought lynn doesnt have to worry about her as an adult. that girl can see from both perspectives and always seems to see the silver lining. i think its going to ease a lot of suffering in her life. 

[Tjej]

Your DD is hilarious. 

As far as teaching tact - we did a week on tact at our kids club this last year.  There is an online cirriculum put out by the ba'hai faith that has all sorts of virtues and stuff to go along with them.  This is a Christian group, so we used examples from the Bible, but below was the "lesson" for that week (the online thing is virtue of the week):

What is Tact? Tact is telling the truth in a way that does not hurt someone’s feelings. It is knowing what to say and what not to say. It is finding a way to share the truth so that it helps the other person and does not make them upset. Tact is thinking before you speak.  Being tactful means knowing when to stay silent especially when you are feeling angry or upset.  Tact is making sure you do not make someone feel sad because they are different. It is caring about other people’s feelings as much as

you would like them to care about yours.

When Jesus talked to large groups of people he often taught truths in stories.  What do we call this kind of story? (parable)  One parable Jesus told was of when a farmer scattered seed.  We’ll read it from the gospel of Matthew, chapter 13.  Read Matthew 13:3-11.  What do you think Jesus was trying to tell the people?  Jesus tells us just what he meant – let’s read his explanation in verses 13:18-23. (read)  What did the different types of soil mean?  (rocky soil – someone who receives God’s truth but doesn’t really grow it deeply in their heart; thorny soil – someone hears God’s truth but lets life and money get in the way of living right; good soil – someone who hears God’s truth, understands it, and lives reflecting God’s virtues)  Why did Jesus talk about a farmer, seeds and soil instead of just saying God, truth, and people?  (to fulfill prophecy –v.13-15-  and to share God’s truth with tact)

Why is tact important? Tact helps us to tell the truth with gentleness and kindness. When people are being tactful, other people can listen more easily, and so problems can be worked out. Tact helps us keep friends. People who are tactful are very careful about what they say even when they are angry. They do not let their feelings make them say mean things that will end friendships.  Tact keeps us from hurting the feelings of others. It helps us to pay closer attention to how other people feel.

How can we practice being tactful?

• Be gentle and kind when you tell the truth

• Think before you speak

• Decide whether to keep quiet or speak up

• Often keep unkind thoughts to yourself

• Care about other people’s feelings

• Treat people who look different the same way you would treat anyone

Activity: Act out scenarios on “rewind” – do it once without tact, then once with tact.  Have the kids explain what is better about tact.  Scenarios:  1-you see someone walking on the grass in a park by a sign that says “don’t walk on the grass” 2-your brother forgot to zip the zipper on his pants 3-someone is wearing a pair of shoes you think look terrible and they are asking you what you think of them 4- you are sitting through a long service at church and would rather be watching your TV show.

Hands On: Mini plant with “good soil” or seed to plant at home in good soil

Verse: Proverbs 15:1 – A gentle answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger.

Weekly take home paper:

Tact

Tact: telling the truth in a way that does not hurt someone’s feelings; thinking before you speak; knowing what to say and what not to say

Sunday	Monday	Tuesday	Wednesday	Thursday	Friday	Saturday
If a friend asks you if you like their shirt, and you don't, how can you answer them without hurting their feelings?	Make tact awards to give to family and friends you catch in the act of committing the virtue of tact.	Pretend you are given a gift of something you already own. How can you handle this tactfully.	Write the word "tact" with something fun like finger-paint or shaving  cream.	Think of words that begin with the letters in the word "tact".	What's a tactful way of telling your parent  that you didn't like dinner?	What would tact look like if you were really mad at someone.

Proverbs 15:1 – A gentle answer turns away wrath,

but a harsh word stirs up anger.

We read a story that exemplified tact.  I chose an old favorite of mine about homelessness - Trupp.  There are a lot of examples of tactlessness and tact in there. :)

Oh, and if you get this far, one funny thing from that week was I asked the kids what they'd do if their friend's "barn door" was open...  I guess we live in a naive farming community, but the kid who answered talked about bring the animals in and shutting the door.  ;)

Tjej

Edited by Tjej - 8/9/11 at 10:32am

[LynnS6]

Yes, dd is hilarious. It's really really hard not to laugh when she does this sort of thing. She doesn't understand why it's so funny. And I don't need to worry about passive aggressiveness or being too indirect.

Thanks Tjej, I'm going to print those off and practice these with dd. I may even suggest something like these lessons for Sunday School (there are advantages to volunteering to direct Sunday School!). Or maybe I'll just use this for dinner conversation. My kids love doing things like saying things really awful, and will probably learn from that.

I think I can point things out after the fact, if I wait a bit. She is pretty sensitive about being corrected, so I need to tread carefully. Her brother was teasing her all last week because when we got off the plane in Minnesota, she said "It's really humid. I can really feel the humility." So, she's got a tendency toward malaprops and tactlessness. What I don't want is for her to start doing this on purpose. It could make her into a really obnoxious kid who says rotten things for laughs. (I view this as the first step of becoming a bully.)

meemee -- you're right about the bossiness 'curing' itself through experience. I'm just afraid that she's not going to have anyone at school who's willing to play with her by the end of the year! The TAG coordinator, when we met to talk about dd's placement last year, said "well, whoever she gets is going to need to have thick skin." She's bright, articulate and totally without filter yet. It doesn't help that she talks like she's 12 and has the emotional development of a young 7 year old. 

Any good books about bossy characters and how that caused them trouble? She learns well through reading. (She's working on the last Harry Potter book, and when she's done, we're going to need new reading material.)

[Tjej]

There are actually a lot of other virtues you can emphasize to counteract being bossy - gentleness, humility and patience come directly to mind, but there are others I'm sure. 

There is a Christian website with virtue stuff as well - kids of integrity is the site.  It has a lot of stuff.  The proscribed prayers and some other things don't fit well with me, but there are fun games and ideas that promote virtues that I did tap into when modifying the Virtue of the Week stuff for our church.

Tjej

[nextcommercial]

Some of that sounds more like sarcasm, not lack of tact.  

I strongly believe in using tact, and thinking before saying things that would be offensive or hurtful.  But, some of those are actually funny, and it sounds like she has a dry sense of humor. I would definitely teach her to be thoughtful, but I'd appreciate her sense of humor too.

Several years ago, I was walking through a Disney World resort with my sister in law and nephew.  My then eight yr old nephew asked "What would happen if Dad got hit by a Disney World bus?"  (because, for some reason dad was in the middle of the road)  My sister in law said "We'd sue Disney World... first we'd use life insurance, then decide what Dad would have made over a lifetime, then add for inflation and Sue Disney World!!"  (she was kidding)

My nephew said "Grandma is old, and she doesn't have a job, is she worth anything if she gets hit by a bus?".  My sister in law was MORTIFIED!!  (but she actually started it) But, I thought it was the funniest thing I'd ever heard.  He said it in such a dry serious way.

He's grown, and still has that dry humor.  I adore that about him, and I can appreciate it.  But, not everybody thinks he's so endearing.  

[One_Girl]

She sounds like a normal seven year old to me.  I think taking a comment too far is something many people do even into adulthood, especially if they haven't had it gently pointed out to them when it comes up.  The teacher comment and the grandpa one were the only ones that sounded like they needed to be refined and she may be open to changing them if you explain why they are hurtful comments.  The one about your gray hairs sounds more like a joke than anything else and the one she said to your mom sounds like she was trying to make her feel better about being blind.  My dd often jokes about my gray hairs and tries to help others not worry when they are feeling insecure.

If you haven't done the Allie Finkle's Rules for Girls series by Meg Cabot I highly recommend it.  My dd loves the way they are written and they have plot-lines that deal with tact as well as many other issues.

[meemee]

Originally Posted by LynnS6 

I think I can point things out after the fact, if I wait a bit. She is pretty sensitive about being corrected, so I need to tread carefully.

same with dd. 

meemee -- you're right about the bossiness 'curing' itself through experience. I'm just afraid that she's not going to have anyone at school who's willing to play with her by the end of the year! The TAG coordinator, when we met to talk about dd's placement last year, said "well, whoever she gets is going to need to have thick skin." She's bright, articulate and totally without filter yet. It doesn't help that she talks like she's 12 and has the emotional development of a young 7 year old. 

lynn - dont be so sure. there is a girl just like your dd with whom dd has a love hate relationship. of course there are other things involved too. however dd does play with her at times because as dd says 'she is not so mean about my lunch as A (dd's good friend is). she doesnt use a mean tone of voice. she just makes an observation.' the unfortunate thing is they are both 'bossy' kids and so they clash. i know you are concerned and i would be too. havent had hindsight yet on this. but RL moms tell me what your dd and mine are doing is part of growing up and teh social game. i recall from my own childhood that i was surprised by some kids when they got to 6th grade. and btw i've even been surprised by some at our 20th school reunion. 

Any good books about bossy characters and how that caused them trouble? She learns well through reading. (She's working on the last Harry Potter book, and when she's done, we're going to need new reading material.)

Bridge to Terabithia. it had a huge huge impact on dd. and is still our comparing stick. the bully there. for us 'janice avery' is all that's required for dd to understand she is being bossy. it was in the magical land when janice turns into the giant troll and that was a HUGE eureka moment for dd. dont ask me why she that touched her so deeply or why it brought such understanding to her - but it did. 
 

[squimp]

Oh funny, she reminds me a lot of my DD.  I'm betting the teacher might know her well enough to get a chuckle from that statement.  She's definitely saying things that are true for her, but it might be good to talk with her about how people might interpret the things she says.  Discussions about it could teach her to see that some of those words could be hurtful.  

We also struggle with the bossy issue, so I'm watching to see what advice you get on that.  DD is starting to get maybe more braggy than bossy, and this is a new thing, so I'm really trying hard to keep an eye on it so I can talk with her about it.