UP/UC troubles in NYC.

[OrangeMoon]

Okay, where do I start? I just had my UP/UC baby a little over a month ago, and everything went great, the pregnancy and labor were perfect. I have my sweet little girl now and all is well except today we went to have "the meeting" that is required with the department of health for UC'ers. When I was pregnant I was searching for what needs to be done exactly in NYC to get a bc/ss # and didn't find much info so I will post that here later if anyone thinks that would be useful for others. Anyway, it was a meeting with two women (supposed to be three), and my husband and I (we had our toddler with us - he was a homebirth w/ a midwife baby), and the new baby obviously, and we felt like we were being treated like guilty until proven innocent. I was asked a lot of personal questions (such as "where is the placenta?" ... ?!) and we were there being asked things for like an hour and a half. Anyway, my son was acting not his best today because he woke up way too early and we couldn't take him outside because we were busy getting ready for the interview and one of the women asked "Is he always like this?" which my husband felt pretty offended about. Anyway, they have to show the 3rd lady who was supposed to be there but wasn't all of our paperwork and I *think* we should be approved for the birth certificate and ss#, without having to send some more stuff in, but my question is this: Has anyone had child protective services called on them because of their UC? I just have a lot of anxiety about this because I feel like we were pretty judged by these people, even though I feel like we are amazing parents who give every ounce of ourselves to be that way. I've been anxiously cleaning the house a ton today because I worry cps will just stop by or something :-( Ugh, thanks in advance. ETA: I'm sorry if this doesn't make much sense or isn't clear, I was so anxious about this meeting for the last week really I've like fried my poor postpartum brain.

Edited by OrangeMoon - 11/21/11 at 4:01pm

[OrangeMoon]

We don't take our kids to the doctor unless they are sick and I feel like these women were *totally* freaking out that DD is 5 weeks old and hasn't been to the pediatrician's. I don't know what they would have done if I'd said DS is 2.5 and has only been to a homeopath. 

[Mama2ChicknLil]

Hi, gosh, I haven't had my baby yet (UCing soon though), but my understanding is there's not a whole lot CPS could do even if they were to be involved. And btw, of COURSE the baby will be approved for a birth certificate and SS#...how else would the government track and tax her :)? I would be prepared to have her checked out by a pediatrician though, you can refuse ANYTHING (they'll just make you sign a million papers) but that might calm these crazy people down a bit.

As for how they treated you: completely inappropriate! I'm so sorry you were made to feel so stressed out! Everything is going to be perfectly fine, they are just trying to scare you and wield their authority stick...it's no wonder so many of us chose to avoid the system altogether.

I hope someone out there can give you more concrete advice from your area, but in truth you have a leal right to refuse any medical treatment for yourself or your child...you'll be fine!

sending love...

[amberskyfire]

I didn't have a negative response when I took DD in, but I personally think that was because I was scared of getting in trouble for having had a UC, so I pretended to be very complacent. I've noticed that doctors and other "officials" tend to listen to you when you act as though you think their ideas are best.

I didn't argue. I didn't press my point or try to get any point across in fact. When they asked me about vaccines I nodded eagerly and said that I was talking about them with our pediatrician (even though I didn't want to vaccinate DD as a newborn.) If they suggested something, I thanked them for their help. I acted concerned about my baby and tried to seem as though I was taking all of their wonderful advice when really I was just going to go home and do what we always do. If you act like you're digging your heels in, they notice you more.

I can't tell because I wasn't actually there, but it seems like the women were just doing what they are supposed to do which isn't harass you for having a UC, but to make sure that the baby is actually yours and you didn't steal it. It's a hurtful insinuation, but it happens, so they have to be really on top of it. I don't think they are familiar with UCers or families that don't go to a pediatrician right away so it could have seemed to them like you guys were avoiding being "found out" if the baby wasn't yours.

So sorry you had to go through that!

[abc123xyz]

CPS can come to your door but personally, I would NEVER allow anyone from the government without a search warrant into my home. It's not a matter of hiding things, it's a matter of personal privacy afforded to you by the constitution of the United States. They would need police escort and warrant to enter my home! That's me! I would not be going crazy over it!

[kathrineg]

They also want to make sure that you're not getting a duplicate BC in order to defraud the government or anyone else, which probably explains many of the nosy questions. Still rude to ask about your 2.5 year old...it's like, hey, lady, 2 year olds are wacky or crabby sometimes...it's because they're 2! What does she expect?

Hope all turns out well and congrats 

[teraze]

Originally Posted by kathrineg 

Still rude to ask about your 2.5 year old...it's like, hey, lady, 2 year olds are wacky or crabby sometimes...it's because they're 2! What does she expect?

Hope all turns out well and congrats 

This.  BEYOND rude.  I would have been so offended.

I don't have any information for you, although the PPs seem helpful.

I hope you're free from anxiety!  (Or soon!)

[Almi]

The night I had my twins, my mother tried to let herself in my house (well, she did, but didn't get very far thanks to my partner), and when she realized she wasn't going to get to attend my birth, she called the cops on me, and they showed up at my door maybe 10 minutes after I delivered the placenta.  I had just cut their cords.  I didn't let them in my house, but they told us that they'd call an ambulance for us (and keep its lights off) just in case and told us that we didn't break any laws, just that we could get charged if something was wrong with one of the babies, because it would be considered not providing proper medical care.

The EMT's showed up not long after that, and I let them in and let them have a look at us.  They determined that we certainly all looked okay and asked if I needed anything, and I said no.

A few days after the birth, CPS showed up at my door (the cops have to contact them regardless if children are involved), determined that my kids didn't need to be taken away, that I wasn't a quack, and basically told me they just wanted me to bring them in to see a pediatrician, which I told them I planned on doing anyway. 

[bluemadmommy]

Thanks everyone for your advice and comfort.  I'm not the original poster, but I am being investigated by CPS right now, and it's keeping me up at night.  My pregnancy and unassisted waterbirth were heavenly, but my daughter Sandy, born August 4th, had severe congenital defects and did not survive.  I wish I could just grieve, instead of also having to worry about the opinions of people who believe that my UP/UC somehow caused her death.  I personally believe that, had I been at a hospital with an OB, they would have cut me open to get her, and she still would have passed away, but I would never have gotten to hold her, and I would now be recovering from major surgery, as well as grieving her loss, as well as the loss of the beautiful experience that bringing her into the world was.  If I had to choose again, I would do everything the same.

[sosurreal09]

Originally Posted by Almi 

The night I had my twins, my mother tried to let herself in my house (well, she did, but didn't get very far thanks to my partner), and when she realized she wasn't going to get to attend my birth, she called the cops on me, and they showed up at my door maybe 10 minutes after I delivered the placenta.  I had just cut their cords.  I didn't let them in my house, but they told us that they'd call an ambulance for us (and keep its lights off) just in case and told us that we didn't break any laws, just that we could get charged if something was wrong with one of the babies, because it would be considered not providing proper medical care.

The EMT's showed up not long after that, and I let them in and let them have a look at us.  They determined that we certainly all looked okay and asked if I needed anything, and I said no.

A few days after the birth, CPS showed up at my door (the cops have to contact them regardless if children are involved), determined that my kids didn't need to be taken away, that I wasn't a quack, and basically told me they just wanted me to bring them in to see a pediatrician, which I told them I planned on doing anyway. 

That is frightening!

[sosurreal09]

Originally Posted by bluemadmommy 

Thanks everyone for your advice and comfort.  I'm not the original poster, but I am being investigated by CPS right now, and it's keeping me up at night.  My pregnancy and unassisted waterbirth were heavenly, but my daughter Sandy, born August 4th, had severe congenital defects and did not survive.  I wish I could just grieve, instead of also having to worry about the opinions of people who believe that my UP/UC somehow caused her death.  I personally believe that, had I been at a hospital with an OB, they would have cut me open to get her, and she still would have passed away, but I would never have gotten to hold her, and I would now be recovering from major surgery, as well as grieving her loss, as well as the loss of the beautiful experience that bringing her into the world was.  If I had to choose again, I would do everything the same.

So sorry for your loss. I can't believe they are harassing you over something like that, it's not like the Drs could have done anything...

[JenRave]

Just advice from someone who has been through it (and I didn't do anything wrong!) - if you refuse to let CPS in, they will come back with the police, and if you fight letting them come in without a warrant, they WILL take the children away that day.  The best thing to do is to be extremely compliant and polite.  If you argue with them, they will write in their files that you are uncooperative and argumentative.  Usually unless there is EXTREME evidence of neglect and abuse, they will not take a child away at first visit.  They may tell you things they want you to change, such as keeping a house cleaner or something.

[sosurreal09]

Originally Posted by JenRave 

Just advice from someone who has been through it (and I didn't do anything wrong!) - if you refuse to let CPS in, they will come back with the police, and if you fight letting them come in without a warrant, they WILL take the children away that day.  The best thing to do is to be extremely compliant and polite.  If you argue with them, they will write in their files that you are uncooperative and argumentative.  Usually unless there is EXTREME evidence of neglect and abuse, they will not take a child away at first visit.  They may tell you things they want you to change, such as keeping a house cleaner or something.

I'm sorry but WHAT? How did you come to this conclusion? If you utilize your rights as a citizen they will take away your kid? That seems highly unlawful..

[APToddlerMama]

Originally Posted by sosurreal09 

I'm sorry but WHAT? How did you come to this conclusion? If you utilize your rights as a citizen they will take away your kid? That seems highly unlawful..

I'm a social worker and have worked in child welfare.  Their *job* is to make sure kids are safe.  If they come to the home and are not allowed in, they cannot verify that a child is safe.  JenRave's advice is good advice.  Some workers may determine that a parent refusing access to their children is a strong indictator that the parents have something to hide.  If they feel that way, they may choose (and frequently will choose) to use law enforcement to gain access to the children.  I'm so tired of the MDC CPS hysteria I could scream, but I will just say that if you want CPS to go away, your best bet is to cooperate with them.  Social workers are human beings too.  Our houses are messy.  Our kids run around naked (mine is right now).  Sometimes we haven't had time to go to the grocery store and there isn't a lot of food around.  They don't expect to come into your home and be greeted with coffee and a 7 course meal.  They want to make sure there are not lots of bruises, filthy conditions (ie. feces laying around, cockroaches in babies crib, 100000 empty liquor bottles on the counter, 20 bags of trash in the living room, and nothing but mayonaise in the fridge), drugs laying around, etc.  If you don't have that going on, you're going to create a lot more heartache for yourself and your children by not cooperating.

OP-- If I were you, I would not worry one bit.  I actually have never heard of CPS ever investigating UC except for on MDC.  I didn't even know what UC was until then.  If it was me prior to knowing what UC even was or why people chose it, and I got a UC referral, I would probably have been wondering if mom chose that so baby wasn't drug tested or something.  I don't know what I would have thought, but if I saw the kids looked fine, I'd ask why, and probably accept the answer and leave.  I am assuming if they are called, and actually have time to come out and investigate something like this (don't forgot the majority of their calls are serious calls), that they will see your baby is fine and close your case immediately.  I wouldn't go nuts cleaning my house or anything else (unless of course you have 20 bags of trash in your living room or 100000 empty liquor bottles on your counter and I trust that is not the case).  good luck...breathe easy.  I suspect you'll be completely fine. 
 

[mattemma04]

I was reprted to CPS after a UC. It was no big deal to let them look around the apartment and contact the ped to close the case. I did not apply for a BC until my dd was older and there was no issue.Keep things simple.Have a crib or something.Vaccines are not mandated,but they will push them.They kept telling me my newborn would DIE if I refused the hepB vaccine,lol.

 A visit to the doctor will deter medical neglect claims,which was the reason they investigated me following the birth,but  I had taken my baby to the ped,so the case was closed.

[blessedwithboys]

I was reported even though I had consistent prenatal care...I wanted a BC VBAC and ended up being threatened with ERC or loss of custody immediately upon delivery.  Crap like this happens, but OP, you are partnered, whereas I was not.  You have better socioeconomic odds than I did.  I think you wil be just fine.

Congrats on your UC and new baby!  :)

[JenRave]

"Some workers may determine that a parent refusing access to their children is a strong indictator that the parents have something to hide."

Yes this, exactly.  It makes you look guilty.

[OrangeMoon]

Hey everyone, just thought I'd update the thread a bit. CPS never came but we are still working on getting a BC and passport for my now 5 month old daughter. In addition to all the other things the doh had us do they wanted two more people to verify and have notarized that I had been pregnant, so we sent that in but the doh called so I'm assuming they didn't like something about it, sigh. Hopefully this will all be over with soon. Thanks for the support!

[A_Random_Phrase]

Sounds like you have really been having a rough time. I, also, hope it will soon be over.