My kids are not interested in nighttime potty training.

[seawitch]

And it's really causing issues for us now. They're 3.5 (who I'm not really worried about) and 4.5. The 4.5 guy is the bigger problem. I try to wake both of them up before they have to go; DD wakes up just fine and goes potty and is usually dry until morning. If I don't, she pees herself and cries. The 4.5 year old, however, refuses to get up at night. He will start sobbing if I wake him up and tell me he doesn't want to get out of bed. If I don't make him, he pees the bed. If I do gently force the issue and carry him there gently myself, he will scream the whole way, but sometimes he will go. Other times he will throw a fit and no matter how long we wait, he won't go. Then I take him back to bed... where he pees in bed.

It's driving me to distraction. He wasn't interested in potty training until he was well over 3, but he caught on pretty quick once it interested him. But 4.5? He'll be 5 soon, and he still isn't interested in not peeing himself in the middle of the night? He also refuses to wear a diaper or pull ups - he will take them off and then pee in bed. What is going on? He won't talk about why he doesn't want to. Nothing scares him, there's no fear issue. He just wants to pee in bed and that's that. He will just happily sleep through the night in a wet bed and cuddle himself in it. It's... bizarre, really. (Pee never bothered him as an infant, either.)

I don't let him drink before bedtime. I really don't know what else I can approach this with. I'm not in a hurry for him to grow up - heck, he still nurses a few times a week - but this is just really gross to me. We're also TTC and I absolutely suck at being preggers so I don't want to be changing sheets in the middle of the night when I'm sick, etc.

[SweetSilver]

My oldest does this.  Grrrrrrrr!  But she never wet the bed if she didn't go, just tossed and turned and tossed and turned right next to me (and whined and moaned and woke up everybody) until I had to do something.  So, yeah, I took her screaming to the potty.  She didn't fight me per se, but sometimes made it difficult to pick her up.  After she peed she'd sleep like a rock.  That was my motivator.  

     She still doesn't want to used the potty at night, but she is a loud kid when she has trouble sleeping.  At 6.5 I get no more than a whine.  And she finally gets it when I say that nobody likes to have to get up to use the potty at night.  But sometimes we just have to.

     I'd like to know when they will wake themselves up, get to the potty and back on their own without waking me up!

[Hesperia]

Would a potty in the bedroom help?


Ease exhaust any typos, set from my itouch.

[SweetSilver]

Originally Posted by Hesperia 

Would a potty in the bedroom help?
 

The hardest part is the getting up, for us!

[Marsupialmom]

Quit waking your kids to try to potty learn at night.  

They are not purposefully or willingly peeing themselves.  You are creating an issue and interrupting the natural process that their body goes through to not need to wake up at night and go pee.  

This does not mean if they wake you don't help them.  Just learn about bedwetters -  and they are in the normal age ranges for night wetting. 

http://www.askdrsears.com/topics/sleep-problems/bedwetting/10-bedwetting-facts-parents-should-know

Allow him to drink. However NO caffeine drinks in the evening but water is fine.  It also help if you make sure he drinks earlier in the day so he is not as thirsty at night.  But no drinks only makes you and him miserable and risk constipation.  (some people have found eliminating cows milk reduces bed wetting.) 

Buy pull-ups or cloth soakers.  Help him learn to take care of his accidents without shame, tears, or power struggles.

A potty chair/chamber pot in the bed room can help by making trips to the bathroom shorter.  I had one child that would wake up and pee in front of the toilet until we moved the potty chair closer.  

[seawitch]

Originally Posted by Marsupialmom 

Quit waking your kids to try to potty learn at night.  

They are not purposefully or willingly peeing themselves.  You are creating an issue and interrupting the natural process that their body goes through to not need to wake up at night and go pee.  

This does not mean if they wake you don't help them.  Just learn about bedwetters -  and they are in the normal age ranges for night wetting. 

http://www.askdrsears.com/topics/sleep-problems/bedwetting/10-bedwetting-facts-parents-should-know

Allow him to drink. However NO caffeine drinks in the evening but water is fine.  It also help if you make sure he drinks earlier in the day so he is not as thirsty at night.  But no drinks only makes you and him miserable and risk constipation.  (some people have found eliminating cows milk reduces bed wetting.) 

Buy pull-ups or cloth soakers.  Help him learn to take care of his accidents without shame, tears, or power struggles.

A potty chair/chamber pot in the bed room can help by making trips to the bathroom shorter.  I had one child that would wake up and pee in front of the toilet until we moved the potty chair closer.  

I don't really get this advice. For one thing, I'm not withholding drinks from a thirsty child - I'm just not giving him a glass of water in the evening. He only drinks water during the days, so no caffeine or milk either way - and he does drink a lot, just not in the afternoon / evening. He has no problems holding it in during the day, such as if we're on a car ride or something. If I wake my daughter up she will sleep through the rest of the night just fine. I have only started to wake him up recently. The bedroom has carpet so I wouldn't want to put a potty chair up. We can't afford pull-ups and if I put any kind of shorts or anything on him, he will take them off and then go pee in the bed. I'm having to wash the sheets every day. Then he will sleep in the pee for the rest of the night, even curl up in it and sleep blissfully on - so I have to check on him several times a night anyway so I catch him if he does pee. I don't shame him or yell at him or anything if he pees himself; I help him, but it's just odd to me. I don't see how I'm creating an issue. The issue is already there; I'm not trying to instigate anything. I'm trying to solve it. I don't want him curling up in pee every night.

[seawitch]

Incidentally, this is from the same website you sent me to:

"Step 5: Do the shake and wake Since most children wet their bed within a few hours of falling asleep, a perfect time for a second bladder- emptying session is just before you retire. Awaken your child completely. Your child must be awake enough to walk to the bathroom with assistance in order to be awake enough to sense what's going on in his bladder. "

[Marsupialmom]

Bedwetting is embarrassing to him. His younger sibling has more mastery of nighttime dryness. For the older child this is embarrassing.  If he is struggling to wake you are creating animosity and negative feelings around this.  The waking is a power struggle instead of backing off not thinking something is wrong/lazy about your son and letting him take the lead and control over his body.  If he was agreeable to being woken, like your dd go for it, I would feel differently.  But the battle he feels your resentment.  

He most likely doesn't want to sleep in the wet bed - just does not wake up until he gets to cold from the urine, and sometimes not even that will wake him. At this age, he is among 15% -50% of kids that still have not achieved control.  He isn't don't it because he likes it.  

Have you ever thought of stacking sheets?  rubber sheet, regular, another, then a regular sheet.  He is 4.5 he can help you wash and make the bed.  Nighttime control is not like daytime control.  His body could not be making enough ADH.  He could have a sleep disorder.  Does he sleep deep? Does he snore? Constipation?  Did you read any of the other stuff?   

You can use a dollar store curtain and towels as a drop cloth for the potty chair.    

He can help you wash sheets and take control over his night time wetting.  Yes, you might have to help with the sheets but this is his body and should become his responsilbity to control. 

You said you don't let him drink, often when parents mention this they often actively deny even a thirsty child.  "It is after 6/7 no drinks for you." mentality that is hurtful and frustrating.  Yes,even though some doctors recommending limiting drinks it isn't a agreed on thing.  In the summer months, it can cause constipation if the child isn't getting enough during the day.  Or if they have limited access to drinks at school.  Making sure they are "watered" during the day prevents excessive thirst at night.  This does reduce asking for drinks in the evening.  

Do you have other bed wetters in your family?  If so when did they stop bed wetting?  10ish was the magic age in my family.  

http://www.webmd.com/parenting/bedwetting-solutions-8/bedwetting-causes

Frustrated parents sometimes conclude a child is wetting the bed out of laziness. Kids worry there's something wrong with them -- 

 "For three out of four kids, either a parent or a first-degree relative also wet the bed in childhood."

 

http://www.webmd.com/parenting/bedwetting-solutions-8/bedwetting-causes?page=2

Dragging themselves out of bed to change wet sheets on yet another night, parents frequently become frustrated. "Intentionally or unintentionally, parents express disapproval that this is happening," says Bennett. "It's understandable, but it makes the situation worse."

A 4.5 year old bed wetting is an inconvenience, not an issue. Please accept your child is not doing this to annoy you or because he is lazy or because it doesn't both him that he wakes up wet.  Denial can be a coping strategy for him.  He can't control it and he may feel less by "having" to use pull ups.  He feels your animosity over the sheets and you feeling he "goes" on the sheets.  You may not be doing it on purpose, but your words feel like you hold him at fault verses this being something that just is.  If you are checking him several times a night he may be more aware of it than you think.  If you went to a doctor, she most likely would not do more than ask a few cursory questions to rule out medical issues.  Then tell you to wait a few year to worry. Have you ever told your child why they make pull up for big kids?  Because there are so many big kids out there that have not achieved night time control.  It will happe, just not on a time scale you may wish.  

http://www.emedicinehealth.com/bedwetting/article_em.htm  

[SweetSilver]

I wouldn't call a 4.5yo who pees the bed a "bed wetter" yet.  My husband had real bedwetting issues and was forced to wear plastic pants at least until 8.  He simply could not wake himself up *at all*, and real "bedwetters" often don't wake up enough to even be carried and sat on the potty by an adult.  They simply cannot wake up.  A 4.5yo who wets the bed is still in transition.  In this case a very defiant transition.  My dd also screams and puts up a fit if I take her to the potty at night.  My youngest, 4.5, cannot wake herself in the first 2 hrs and often wets the bed.  Every night I wake her whether she ends up peeing or not. 

     I might offer my son a choice, go pee in the potty or put on a cotton diaper.  Boys are often "behind the curve" in potty training compared to girls.  Though it's almost impossible to have a rational conversation with a kid this young in the middle of the night (they might not remember what happens then either, making any daytime discussions mute) I would try some tactics like these.  Maybe even try having him drink so much water before bed that he is almost guaranteed to go after about 1 hr.  That's when I wake my 4.5yo up, because that's often when she wets the bed.  The "no water before bed" doesn't seem to be working, so let him drink a gallon if he wants.

I'm pretty much just flapping my gums here and have no tried and true remedies, so if you think my ideas are silly, well they probably are.  The situation sounds intolerable enough, though, that even something silly could be worth a try.

[seawitch]

Bedwetting is embarrassing to him. His younger sibling has more mastery of nighttime dryness. For the older child this is embarrassing.  If he is struggling to wake you are creating animosity and negative feelings around this.  The waking is a power struggle instead of backing off not thinking something is wrong/lazy about your son and letting him take the lead and control over his body.  If he was agreeable to being woken, like your dd go for it, I would feel differently.  But the battle he feels your resentment.  

Well, perhaps. I don't think he's especially resentful of his sister waking up. They are very close developmentally and he's generally OK with her doing some things earlier and vice versa. He might feel bad, but if he does, he hasn't shown any signs of it - or embarrassment. He does show embarrassment quite readily for some other things, so we definitely are aware of that and try not to put him in any situations like that, but he really seems nonchalant (on the surface, anyway) about the peeing issues.

I don't think he's outright lazy as a character - but I do know that he doesn't enjoy getting up. He will say he doesn't feel like it and go right where he is, even if I wake him up first, sometimes. I get that when he's just woken out of sleep he might not be getting the full picture of what's going on. He might be half-dreaming for all I know.

He most likely doesn't want to sleep in the wet bed - just does not wake up until he gets to cold from the urine, and sometimes not even that will wake him.

I don't think he wants to sleep in a wet bed - but he was the type of kid who didn't even mind sitting in wet pants when he was daytime training. He noticed it but said he didn't want to bother changing it sometimes. (Like, say, if he peed while having dinner, he didn't want to get up and change out of them before continuing dinner. Also, sometimes he will wake up and make his bed so that his blanket that he peed on (he has several he nestles between) is on top of him instead of under him. I don't know why?

Have you ever thought of stacking sheets?  rubber sheet, regular, another, then a regular sheet.  He is 4.5 he can help you wash and make the bed.  

He does both, willingly. He's on laundry duty most days anyway. He helps me with all the laundry.

Nighttime control is not like daytime control.  His body could not be making enough ADH.  He could have a sleep disorder.  Does he sleep deep? Does he snore? Constipation?  Did you read any of the other stuff?   [/B]

Yes, I read the rest of it. He doesn't snore. He is a very light sleeper usually. He's never constipated. (I mean, never say never, but very rarely, I can't remember the last time he was.)

You can use a dollar store curtain and towels as a drop cloth for the potty chair.

Well, we're staying with my mom in her house and I don't think that would go over well - plus the bathroom is literally next to his room, so the potty is only like a few feet further away. It's not a bad idea, generally, though.

You said you don't let him drink, often when parents mention this they often actively deny even a thirsty child.  "It is after 6/7 no drinks for you." mentality that is hurtful and frustrating.  Yes,even though some doctors recommending limiting drinks it isn't a agreed on thing.  In the summer months, it can cause constipation if the child isn't getting enough during the day.  Or if they have limited access to drinks at school.  Making sure they are "watered" during the day prevents excessive thirst at night.  This does reduce asking for drinks in the evening.

Well, I don't make it a power struggle... If he asks once, I remind him that it's almost bedtime, and offer him a hug or something instead, which he usually takes happily. If he asks a second time, or says he's thirsty (and not just looking for one more excuse to delay sleep!) then I'll give him a few sips. He gets tons to drink during the day and he never has trouble holding it.


Do you have other bed wetters in your family?

Nope, none. DH and I were both dry night and day before we were 2; no one else in our families have bed wetting issues that we know of.

A 4.5 year old bed wetting is an inconvenience, not an issue. Please accept your child is not doing this to annoy you or because he is lazy or because it doesn't both him that he wakes up wet.  

Well, I wouldn't consider it a life-and-death issue. I would like to curb it a little for my sanity but I'm not losing any sleep over it - well, minus the brief periods when I have to change his sheets - but other than that, no.


Denial can be a coping strategy for him.

That is true.

He feels your animosity over the sheets and you feeling he "goes" on the sheets.  

Wait, what? I'm not following. He does "go" on the sheets, but I think animosity is a bit of a harsh term. Frustration, OK. Animosity? Not so much...

You may not be doing it on purpose, but your words feel like you hold him at fault verses this being something that just is.  

Ack... well, I do feel that I'm very accepting when it comes to my kids' development generally. We have done child-led everything, pretty much. I'm not up in arms over his nighttime habits, I just wanted to see if there was something I could do to help make his and my nighttimes easier. I'm not calling him abnormal or anything.

Anyway, thank you for responding. I hope I don't sound belligerent in my replies. I do appreciate the links and all the rest of the replies you've taken out to write.