unsupervised time in a summer camp--is this unusual?

[midnightwriter]

DD(9) is in a week long, full day horse riding summer camp on a local farm. Since the very beginning things have been very informal there, even when we started the lessons there a year and a half ago.

The lessons never start on time, last anywhere from 1 to 2 hours, and often the main instructor, the owner of the farm, is not there for the lesson. Instead another girl, usually a teenager, is with my daughter.

I mostly like this informal arrangement, though sometimes I wish there was a touch more structure. DD loves spending time with the horses, loves riding.

Now, she is in camp there. S. the owner, doesn't really a limit on how many kids are in the group, or what the ages are. DD is in a group of about 10 girls, most of them 2-4 years older than her.

My main problem is that they seem to be completely unsupervised for at least a couple of hours during the day, if not more. There's no supervision during lunch, as S. goes home (on the property) for lunch, and when I come to pick her up, the kids are on their own, even when i come much earlier. During those times, DD is excluded by the other kids, and is basically on her own. The older girls are into teasing a boy who works on the farm, in his twenties or late teens. They mostly discuss him, and talk behind his back, and DD finds this distateful. She'd told the girls (when asked to join) that N. was kind, and that teasing him wasn't nice. So of course she was laughed at. When I pick her up, the girls stare at me, and don't even say 'hello'. The vibe is certainly odd.

There are two girls her age, and they were rude to DD, and trying to fit in with the older crowd. Also, one of them was pestering DD to switch horses, and DD agreed to it, but said she wanted to switch back later. Well, that other girl promissed she'd switch, but later refused. Little things, but I wish an adult was there to mediate a bit.

Today when I came to pick her up, S. wasn't around, and since my younger kids were eager to go home, we didn't have time to look for her. Then I realised that she doesn't have any sign out procedures. Normally I'm very laid back and I don't mind not having the formalities, but somehow this didn't sit well with me.

The last two days DD was unhappy at pick up, and it seems that S. has no idea about it.

The only other camp DD was in, was run by the city, so of course they had very formal sign in  / sign out, and were supervised at all times, and every minute of the camp time was occupied with one activity or another. The kids were not left to their own devices.

Is the above situation within the realm of normal / typical? To be honest, if DD had a friend there, I wouldn't be worried, but as it is, I feel the camp situation is not ideal for DD, and it makes me question it more.

[Linda on the move]

I vote "not normal"

My kids are now teens and have done a variety of summer camps with a variety of levels of structure. Horse day camp was the least structured, but some basic things were in place that are lacking in your situation.

Although the horse camp didn't have sign in/out procedures, the kids were always up in front playing a game at the end. I got the feeling the owner/lead knew where all the kids were all the time and had some basic concept of safety.

Even though they weren't watched every minute (the camp included lessons with smaller groups of girls, and when it wasn't your groups turn, you had free time) there were older teens who were there to keep an eye on things -- a couple of 15 -16 year olds who new a lot about horses and were above the jr. high social politics. But I know that they had time that the kids (who were 8-12) just made up their own silly games and played in the tack room, petted the dog and cats, etc.

The owner leader was available at the beginning of the day and end of the day to let parents know what the kids were doing, what they seemed to enjoy, etc. There was a lot of communication. She was obviously very involved with them during the day.

[FarmerBeth]

This seems less supervised than normal to me.  If it was my daughter (she's 9 and in riding, too), I think I would pop in to volunteer if my schedule allowed, maybe just during the lunch time. I don't think having a teenager teach the lessons is a problem - the same happens at the stables my daughter goes to and the teens do a great job as they have had lots of experience.  But I do think someone, maybe even one of the teens who gives lessons, should be around to supervise at lunch.  I guess you have to go with your gut as to what your daughter can handle comfortably, but I do think this isn't the normal amount of supervision (and I live in a rural location where earlier responsibility, like summer jobs, managing at home on your own while parents are away, babysitting by age 11, is the norm, so I'm not coming from an over-protective point of view) for most camps.  I'd maybe politely mention to S how your daughter was a little uncomfortable with the older girl's behavior and ask if she maybe had a differnt plan for lunch time supervision in the future.

[lifeguard]

Not normal imo & not acceptable. I think it is fine for kids to have time at camp that is unstructured but I don't think I'd be comfortable with there being no one watching at all.

As for the sign-in/sign-out I think MOST places are going to something a little more formal nowadays thanks to legal issues but it's not a big issue to me - IF someone is there when you pick them up. The fact that there isn't even someone there when you pick up would be worrisome to me - how do they know who it was that actually picked the child up? Just doesn't seem right to me.

I most definitely would be discussing this with the owner.

[ollyoxenfree]

Funny, the least supervised day camp that my DD attended was also a horse riding camp. During free time, the campers organized a lot of their own activities. There were craft materials, games etc. available. There was a general relaxed attitude about that time, which didn't bother me too much.   

The lessons were strictly supervised by the adult instructors though, with teen assistants acting as junior counsellors. I would not be comfortable at all with a set up where the adult person I expected to deliver the lessons wasn't even in the vicinity. Particularly once the campers were attempting anything more challenging than trotting around the paddock and definitely once they starting working on jumping. 

It sounds like you are paying for access to the horses for riding and really, not much else. Aside from the supervision problem, are you happy with the quality of instruction that she's receiving?  

[velochic]

My dd rides and has been to several riding camps over the past few years.  She's 9 and has been riding for 3 years.  Going on our experience alone, actually, I do think it's normal.  It may not be right, but seems to be par for the course.  This is going to sound like I'm stereotyping, (and I probably am).  I grew up rurally and most of the people on my dad's side of the family were/are (large-scale) farmers, although my generation has been mostly hands-off management.  On a farm, typically kids have to contribute a lot to the chores (it's hard running a farm) and when they have free time, are expected to utilize the land to keep themselves occupied.  When you are tending stock or dealing with equipment or crops, there isn't a lot of time for serious supervision.  I know that probably comes across as me saying rural farmers neglect their kids or some such dreck, but actually what I'm saying is that kids learn quickly, and parents trust them to do what needs to be done and how to conduct themselves around dangerous machinery and animals.  Kids have to be mature and responsible at a very young age.  If you've grown up in that environment, strict supervision is probably not going to be on your radar.  You tell a kid how to conduct themselves on a farm and they do it because they know the seriousness of it.  If this is how the owner was raised, then supervising kids more may seem foreign to them.

At dd's stable, they're also very, very lax.  Not when it comes to actually interacting with the horses, but dd can kind of roam around the farm without her instructor being by her side every minute.  Camps have been a mix of kids younger and older than dd and she didn't have problems with them.  As for the girls your dd interacted with just being jerks... I don't think supervision is going to change that.  That's parenting.  If they are not being raised to be respectful of others, no amount of supervision by the camp owner/director or staff is going to make them respectful.  And you're probably not going to get the director to have more staff, either.

We did have one thing that happened last year at fall camp, an overnight camp, that really set me off.  It was the first year dd felt comfortable sleeping away from home and I let her stay the night at this camp.  The next day, I found out that they slept in pop-up campers out in a field and that the owner had not separated boys and girls nor had an adult in there supervising them.  The camper my dd slept in had a couple of 13 year old boys.  Now... nothing happened, but something could have and it really pissed me off.   I didn't take dd out of lessons, but she will never do an over-night camp there again.  The instruction is great and it's one of the best stables for learning English saddle, so we just try to go with the flow and step in when we feel we need to.

Everything else you are talking about... lessons not starting on time, lasting various durations, having young instructors occasionally, etc. are what we have experience as well.  Normal... yeah, I think it is on a farm.  But if it's not acceptable to you, then I would find another stable.  At least talk to the owner about your concerns.  You are a paying customer and your child's well-being is priority #1.  Best of luck!!

[midnightwriter]

Thank you for the feedback, especially from those who have horseback riding camp experience. I guess not much in the camp would bother me, if, as velochic pointed out, the other kids weren't jerks. And the fact that S. said that it is a nice group, as the kids talk to each other . Last year DD was in that very same camp, and the kids in her group all kept to themselves.

In any case, today is the last day, and yesterday wasn't that bad for DD.

[nextcommercial]

I'm going to vote with "not normal" too.  In sleep away summer camp, we had unsupervised time.  But, even that was scheduled into the routine.  We were sent all the way across the camp alone to go from one area to another.  

But, if one of us were being left out or picked on the counselors would have noticed that and done something about it.   

My only problem with the lack of supervision is, it sounds like you are paying for the kids to play on the farm, and not actually do any activities.  The activities are the best part of camp.  

Edited by nextcommercial - 8/12/11 at 8:49am

[midnightwriter]

Definitely paying for DD to spend time on the farm and do chores . They do do a craft session, but out of the 9 hour day there, a craft session, lunch, and riding are the only 'structured activities'. Even if they ride for 3 hours, which I doubt, this leaves about 4 hours of just hanging out. I think that with the right group of kids, this could be absolutely perfect, even ideal. I did ask S. to put DD with kids her age or younger, as we could do ANY week. But the enrollment is also unpredictable, and I have a feeling S. will never refuse an extra child or a couple. This week was supposed to be for yonger kids,  but the older ones signed up at the last moment.
 

Originally Posted by nextcommercial 

I'm going to vote with "not normal" too.  In sleep away summer camp, we had unsupervised time.  But, even that was scheduled into the routine.  We were sent all the way across the camp alone to go from one are to another.  

But, if one of us were being left out or picked on the counselors would have noticed that and done something about it.   

My only problem with the lack of supervision is, it sounds like you are paying for the kids to play on the farm, and not actually do any activities.  The activities are the best part of camp.