Not talking and just turned 2 - Page 2

[AnaB]

Having him evaluated wouldn't hurt of course, but I think you shouldn't worry about it much. It will come. I have one daughter, she will be 3 in January. She's been talking in sentences since she was 18 months. Now she is a non-stop chatter box! My nephews on the other hand, both older than she is by 2 months and by 6 months - barely talk, I can't understand them much. They have their own way of saying things, but not 'normal' words. But seeing their progress from when they didn't talk at all at 2 yrs old - they've come a long way. I think boys just start later in general, with some exceptions. I say don't worry! Get him evaluated for your peace of mind if you wish, but maybe you can wait a little. 

[SundayCrepes]

I've only scanned the responses.

I picked up a language delay in my daughter at 11 months doing the ages and stages questionnaire http://pages.uoregon.edu/asqstudy/. At 12 months she was evaluated by early intervention and began speech therapy. She just turned 3 so is no longer part of EI, but she does continue with private speech therapy.

Here's the interesting part. When she was 2.5 I asked another mother whose son had been in speech therapy (but he no longer needed it,) "When did he start talking?" She said, "When we took him off gluten."

Hmmm...we decided to try that. Three weeks later our daughter's language took off. We didn't know if it was related or a coincidence. But, since we love a gluten free diet (and feel it is much healthier as long as you don't start eating processed gluten free foods) we decided to keep her on the diet. Then she found some pretzels in a park and we visited my mom and it took me forever to figure out where all the gluten was coming from. Over the course of a week she got lots of gluten and her language seemed to stagnate. 4 weeks after she was again gluten free her language soared.

She also has had frequent diarrhea since before one year of age. Long story short she had all kinds of evaluations (except celiac biopsy.) At 2 the specialist said it was probably Toddler Diarrhea and she should outgrow it by 4. After she went gluten free I read an online comment by a mom who said her son had both a speech delay and toddler diarrhea. She found out what food allergies he had, she took him off those foods, and both the diarrhea and the speech delay resolved. 

We had our daughter tested for allergies. We decided to remove all foods she was sensitive to and see what happened. After 6 weeks, nothing. Then we also took her off dairy. Suddenly it was no longer 4 diarrheas a day, but rather more normal poops. And her language again soared. We started reintroducing foods. Some she tolerated, others she did not. We are now gluten free, dairy free, cane sugar free, and tomato free. The tomato is a bummer and the cane sugar makes it hard to eat out. However, I am finding so many interesting and healthy foods that I am gaining weight.:P I even figured out how to make coconut ice cream in the freezer in a bowl.

The short story is, maybe remove gluten and see what happens. Give it a month to 6 weeks. I've talked to a number of people who are gluten sensitive and they all say their brains feel like they're in a fog when they eat gluten. We think that's what was happening to our daughter.

[Justmee]

I also had 3 out of 4 late talkers. One had caught up by 3, one around 5 - 6, and one still has a few delays (not in language, but we suspect other LDs).

Most likely ds is just fine. If it will make you feel better, start the early intervention process in your city.

[tlarsen]

Hello,

I just wanted to say that both my brother and my dad were late talkers.  Neither of them really talked until they were four.  My mom says that my brother had 6 words when he turned 3, which is amazing to me now that I am a parent.  One of our family friends was concerned that he was retarded.  My mom's instincts told her that he was fine.  When he finally talked, he talked in full sentences.  BTW, now he has an equivalent of a PHD in education.  He is a very smart guy and he is probably the smartest guy in our family.  My dad didn't talk until he was four either and he was salutatorian of his HS class.  Which is not to say that if your child isn't talking, there couldn't be something wrong, but I think there are probably many cases when the child is just fine and just not ready. 

My brother is a good conversationalist now, but I would say that he is a much better listener than a talker.  He doesn't talk just for the sake of talking.  He doesn't talk unless he has something to say, but when he has something to say, it is usually worthwhile or some dry humor one-liner...lol!   I appreciate his thoughts and listening skills. Sometimes my family wonders if he just didn't have anything worthwhile to say yet.  He also had an older sister that knew what he wanted and could talk for him. 

I have been wondering if the late talker gene is going to show up somewhere in my family. 

Terja

[SomethingAnonymous]

Hi,

First, thank you all for the replies.  Having such a universal consensus definitely made me decide this wasn't just something I should "wait and see what happens" type scenario.  After the first few replies I called Early Intervention, they were very friendly and we set up an appointment for someone to come evaluate him at our house that week.  It went pretty well, she was friendly and our son seemed to like her.  She said his development seemed great in all areas besides communication.  He scored really low on the language part of it. 

So another appointment was set up with someone who was more of a specialist I think.  He liked this woman even more.  She said she thought both his language was delayed and cognitive skills as well.  Like paying attention.  He's just very busy all the time and doesn't want to sit and look at a book or flash cards.  She forwarded her tests to his pediatrician, and I set up his 2 year well child check. 

His pediatrician said his ears looked clear and healthy, no fluid.  She said he was healthy otherwise as well.  She wrote the referral to see a speech therapist and get a hearing test done.  We we able to see the speech therapist about 2 hours later, which was pretty cool.  Except... it ran into nap time and he really didn't want to do any of her tests.  He wanted to explore her office and get allllllll the toys out.  And then he cried very hard when it was time to go.  She said we could set up another appointment and try again.  He also didn't make a single sound during the whole appointment, but she said she understood that the one hour with him doesn't represent his whole life.

So we tried again the next week.  This time he wasn't as fussy but still didn't really follow any of her instructions and he still was being himself and wanted to explore everything.. like her laptop.  I told her if she wants his attention, we should be in a room with only things he's allowed to touch.  She said that at 2, he should be able to focus more.  I think he can focus, when he wants to.  She said she had enough information to give the results of her test.  I still haven't heard these results, but I am sure it's similar to everything everyone else has said.

The next morning we had the hearing test.  I was very nervous that he wouldn't want to do it.  It didn't go that bad really.  We started with the test that is the same as the infant hearing test.  She said the results she was seeing looked like maybe he had fluid in his ears. So then she did another test, that puts pressure on the eardrum and should move it back and forth.  She showed me a screen with a line graph and said it should have peaks and valleys, and his was a flat line, indicating that his ear drum was restricted. So then him and his dad went into a sound proof room with speakers and they played while she talked at different volumes and played different tones, and watched which ones he responded to.  She said he wasn't responding at any of the lower volumes that most people would respond to, and also that he wasn't responding to any of the higher or lower frequencies.  She said all 3 tests seemed consistent with what she would see with someone who had fluid on both sides of their ear drum.

I'm not sure why the pediatrician would say she saw no fluid, and then the audiologist would say that he could have fluid on both sides.  Maybe that's not the case?  So anyway, the next step is to talk to the pediatrician again and she what she recommends. 

I also never mentioned in my previous posts that I failed a hearing screening when I was young, maybe 4?  I ended up having fluid in my ears and had tubes put in, and then my hearing was fine.  The problem was mostly that the surgery was extremely traumatizing for me. I was afraid of doctors and hospitals until I was about 18 because of that, and I still get upset when I think back about my experience.  I realllllly don't want this to happen to my son.  So as you can imagine I am pretty sad/scared/upset thinking about him having the same surgery.  Although I am hoping my bad experience was because my parents didn't prepare me beforehand and didn't comfort me after.  The audiologist said that this problem tends to run in families because of face shape.  And we don't even know if this is the problem yet.

Originally Posted by SundayCrepes 

Here's the interesting part. When she was 2.5 I asked another mother whose son had been in speech therapy (but he no longer needed it,) "When did he start talking?" She said, "When we took him off gluten."

Hmmm...we decided to try that. Three weeks later our daughter's language took off. We didn't know if it was related or a coincidence. But, since we love a gluten free diet (and feel it is much healthier as long as you don't start eating processed gluten free foods) we decided to keep her on the diet. Then she found some pretzels in a park and we visited my mom and it took me forever to figure out where all the gluten was coming from. Over the course of a week she got lots of gluten and her language seemed to stagnate. 4 weeks after she was again gluten free her language soared.

The short story is, maybe remove gluten and see what happens. Give it a month to 6 weeks. I've talked to a number of people who are gluten sensitive and they all say their brains feel like they're in a fog when they eat gluten. We think that's what was happening to our daughter.

After I read this post, I took him off gluten (this was before the hearing test).  What you say makes sense because I am the same way when I eat gluten, it's harder to think.  My son has no signs of any food allergies problems other than possibly this issue.  He has never had any digestive issues, but I thought it was worth a try anyway.  Within 1 week of stopping gluten, he had said about 5 new things, however they were not very clear like all his other words. (he started says "wuhhh, wuhhh" for "loves, loves."  I still thought it was progress.  By week 2, he'd said another 4-5 new things.  It may be a coincidence, who knows. I'll probably continue to at least limit his gluten intake.  Since I already eat gluten free, it was pretty easy to do the same for him.  I talked to the pediatrician about it, and she said "it certainly won't hurt, I'd try it."  I agree. Thanks for the suggestion :) 

After taking him off gluten I finally got to hear him say something pretty close to mama, but guess what? It means nurse. lol. I usually call it nursing, so I have no idea why he is saying that. He looks up at me and says "mama?" like he is asking permission to nurse (lol, I've never made him ask) and I'll be like "go ahead" and pulls my shirt down and latches on.  Even if he isn't calling me mama, it's still pretty adorable. I also saw him go into the fridge and look for food and say mama.  I guess mama means eat?

And thanks again to everyone for all the information and feedback!

Edited by SomethingAnonymous - 9/28/11 at 3:29am

[SundayCrepes]

I'm glad you're getting help from the medical community. In many places medical care given to little kids is much more compassionate than it used to be, so maybe the tubes (if he doesn't need them) won't be so bad.

I'm glad you're seeing positives with the removal of gluten. My daughter also had toddler diarrhea. The specialist said she'd outgrow it by 4 or so. I read a mom somewhere whose kid had a speech delay and toddler diarrhea. She said she removed allergenic foods and both resolved. We did allergy testing and took our daughter off her sensitive foods. After 6 weeks no improvement in the diarrhea. Then we also removed all dairy. Within three days her diarrhea, which she'd had for 2.5 years stopped. We tried reintroducing sensitive foods. Some she tolerated, some she didn't. We're vegetarians. Now we're also gluten, dairy, cane sugar, and tomato free. (And except that we can't really eat out, I love the diet.) The thing is, when her poops solidified she had a huge burst in her language. It was amazing to watch how her food intake seems so closely related to her language.

[SomethingAnonymous]

I know what you mean SundayCrepes, after I stopped eating gluten and dairy I couldn't believe how many of my problems went away.  And now I can't eat rice or corn or anything with a lot of sugar either, so yeah... we can't eat out either.  Do you have any meals you cook that don't have rice or corn in them? lol, I'm looking for recipes, it's so tough. 

[SundayCrepes]

Originally Posted by SomethingAnonymous 

I know what you mean SundayCrepes, after I stopped eating gluten and dairy I couldn't believe how many of my problems went away.  And now I can't eat rice or corn or anything with a lot of sugar either, so yeah... we can't eat out either.  Do you have any meals you cook that don't have rice or corn in them? lol, I'm looking for recipes, it's so tough. 

We're from Tucson and tortillas are a big part of our life. Here's a recipe for mung bean tortillas. http://spiceandmore.wordpress.com/2009/08/17/an-exciting-discovery/ I love the recipes made out of almond flour at www.elanaspantry.com.

Here's something I posted in the nutrition section. I do refer to rice pasta, but you can just ignore that (obviously.)

Here's one I got a great cream of broccoli soup recipe from http://glutenfreegoddess.blogspot.com/

vegan macaroni and cheese http://vegnews.com/web/articles/page.do?pageId=40&catId=10

coconut whipped cream http://cleangreensimple.com/2011/03/coconut-milk-whipped-cream/

tomato substitutes http://vegetalion.blogspot.com/2010/11/how-to-replace-nightshades-part-4.html

coconut milk yogurt (I haven't made this yet) http://www.smallfootprintfamily.com/2009/04/25/homemade-coconut-milk-yogurt/

pizza crust/flat bread http://gingerlemongirl.blogspot.com/2008/04/crusty-millet-flat-bread.html

vegan crepes http://mykidfoodallergies.com/index.php/recipes/2/43

cashew cheese (I avoid nutritional yeast since it's actually like MSG.) Can't remember if I made this recipe http://www.purplecarrotkc.com/2011/07/easy-cashew-cheese.html

So, if you have something you want to make, just google it...gluten free potato soup recipe came up with more than 2 million hits.

Oh, we use Tinkyada brown rice pasta. Just don't cook per package directions. I cook about 8 minutes. Shells 6-7 minutes.

And these crackers original flavor are gluten, dairy and cane sugar free http://www.crunchmaster.com/products/multiseed.aspx They sell them at our costco store, though I don't see them online.

Here's books I like:

http://www.amazon.com/Gluten-Free-Vegan-Delicious-Animal-Free-Recipes/dp/1600940323/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1316670756&sr=1-1

http://www.amazon.com/Gluten-Free-Almond-Flour-Cookbook/dp/158761345X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1316670702&sr=8-1

http://www.amazon.com/Cooking-Coconut-Flour-Gluten-Free-Alternative/dp/0941599639/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1316670722&sr=1-2

[kayleesmom]

I would talk to peditrician about having his hearing tested. and also call early intervention and have them eval him. they can help you out alot.

[SomethingAnonymous]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kayleesmom 

I would talk to peditrician about having his hearing tested. and also call early intervention and have them eval him. they can help you out alot.

I posted above that I've done both. Thanks.

Originally Posted by SundayCrepes 

We're from Tucson and tortillas are a big part of our life. Here's a recipe for mung bean tortillas. http://spiceandmore.wordpress.com/2009/08/17/an-exciting-discovery/ I love the recipes made out of almond flour at www.elanaspantry.com.

Here's something I posted in the nutrition section. I do refer to rice pasta, but you can just ignore that (obviously.)

Here's one I got a great cream of broccoli soup recipe from http://glutenfreegoddess.blogspot.com/

vegan macaroni and cheese http://vegnews.com/web/articles/page.do?pageId=40&catId=10

Thanks so much! you're awesome :)

[APToddlerMama]

OP-- I just wanted to say that I have seen several kids who had fluid in their ears really take off in terms of their speech and language skills when they got tubes.  I know it sucks sending your kiddo in for surgery, but it can be an easy solution to communication issues for some kids.  I was honestly hoping our audiologist would tell me our son had fluid in his ears (he didn't) because once the surgery is over, many kids do really well instead of the long road that some others have with learning to speak.  I'd take him to an ENT over a pediatrician for a consult. 

Also, I think it is great that you are GF with him.  I would strongly consider pulling dairy too....and not subbing soy for dairy.  We use coconut milk for my son and he loves it.  You can buy it at Whole Foods and various "mainstream" grocery stores.  We buy the SoDelicious brand which comes in a half gallon carton in the refridgerated section.  Not to be confused with the super thick coconut milk that comes in a can.  If you need ideas for recipes, feel free to pm me too.  We do use a lot of rice though...but no corn. 

[SomethingAnonymous]

So I don't know if anyone cares for an update- but here it is:

He's been saying more words since 2 months ago, only a couple are clear.  His pediatrician said she thinks it could be allergies so she wanted to put him on children's claritin daily. I want him to see an ENT first before I medicate him, and confirm there is even fluid in his ears, since she hasn't been able to see any signs of fluid.  I guess we are still floudering around trying to find out what could be causing this.  In case it is an allergy, I am trying to feed him similar to myself- no wheat, corn, rice, coconut, almonds, onions, soy, dairy, sugar, beef, pork or anything artificial/processed. I guess my thinking was that maybe we share an allergy, I have no idea though.  It's been hard to feed him this way.  The couple times we've slipped is when we go to the store or someone's house, and he wants a piece of bread or something. Since I can't communicate with him very much, it's hard to explain he can't have it.  I'm working on it though.  We'll just try to feed him at home from now on. 

We're going to redo the hearing test, see if the results are changed at all.  If they are the same, then go see an ENT and see if someone with more ear experience can see any signs of fluid or any other problems.  Then we'll decide from there I guess.

[Justmee]

Good luck! I love when people update with how things are going.

Sounds like you are checking things out well, and your ds is in good hands (which of course you knew already :wink: )

[SundayCrepes]

I'd get a blood allergy test. We did a panel of 96 on our 2 year old. Who would have thought cane sugar and tomatoes could be problems. Well, you've cut out sugar so apparently  you did, but I wouldn't have thought about that. Tests aren't 100% accurate, but it's a starting point.

Some of it is patience. If he's in speech therapy AND you're following the therapists instructions, that will help. Do you do sign with him? Our son knew 96 words. Our second baby I didn't have so much energy, so she only learned around 50. But it was (and continues to be) a big help.

We are almost 3.5 years now. She's been in speech therapy since about 13 months. The other day she told me, "(her name) take picture you in space shuttle." (Her brother has a cardboard space shuttle.) Her speech isn't very clear, but it's getting better and she's making long sentences like that from time to time.

It helps that I know her birthmom and 2 half sisters all had speech delays and they can talk. Some of it is just patience.

[fizgig]

I just wanted to chime in as the mother of an almost 3 year old late talker.  We have been there done that. 

I don't know if you got the fluid checked by an ENT but just to answer your question - it is probably non-infected fluid in the middle ear which can't be seen just looking into the ear.  They have to test the tension of the ear drum to find it which is why they have to shoot air onto the ear drum.  If I were you this would be my first thing to follow up on because, if the fluid doesn't go away on its own soon, you are missing key language learning months. 

All that said, it is also possible that there is something else going on with your son and I would definitely get him evaluated by EI or a private therapist.  Although 2 is really, REALLY young and I wouldn't stress out about it since many children simply talk late.  But there are also other reasons he might not be talking yet and you want to catch those early on.

[SomethingAnonymous]

Originally Posted by SundayCrepes 

I'd get a blood allergy test. We did a panel of 96 on our 2 year old. Who would have thought cane sugar and tomatoes could be problems. Well, you've cut out sugar so apparently  you did, but I wouldn't have thought about that. Tests aren't 100% accurate, but it's a starting point.

Some of it is patience. If he's in speech therapy AND you're following the therapists instructions, that will help. Do you do sign with him? Our son knew 96 words. Our second baby I didn't have so much energy, so she only learned around 50. But it was (and continues to be) a big help.

We are almost 3.5 years now. She's been in speech therapy since about 13 months. The other day she told me, "(her name) take picture you in space shuttle." (Her brother has a cardboard space shuttle.) Her speech isn't very clear, but it's getting better and she's making long sentences like that from time to time.

It helps that I know her birthmom and 2 half sisters all had speech delays and they can talk. Some of it is just patience.

I think the allergy test is a good idea, it's way too hard to just try randomly eliminating things with someone this young in my opinion.  My blood allergy test showed I wasn't having IgE reactions to anything, so I know what you mean- he could be having another type of reaction. Or maybe it's environmental.

We have been trying to sign with him since we found out, he's learned a couple words- I've found the biggest obstacle is that he doesn't look at me for long enough for me to show him.  Whenever he is doing something that I know the sign for, I try to get his attention, but he just doesn't look up most of the time. I'm not giving up though- and I've been trying to get his dad and grandma to join in helping teach him when they interact with him.

Originally Posted by fizgig 

I just wanted to chime in as the mother of an almost 3 year old late talker.  We have been there done that. 

I don't know if you got the fluid checked by an ENT but just to answer your question - it is probably non-infected fluid in the middle ear which can't be seen just looking into the ear.  They have to test the tension of the ear drum to find it which is why they have to shoot air onto the ear drum.  If I were you this would be my first thing to follow up on because, if the fluid doesn't go away on its own soon, you are missing key language learning months. 

All that said, it is also possible that there is something else going on with your son and I would definitely get him evaluated by EI or a private therapist.  Although 2 is really, REALLY young and I wouldn't stress out about it since many children simply talk late.  But there are also other reasons he might not be talking yet and you want to catch those early on.

Yeah I think we are definitely dealing with a medical reason here, and not just a kid who talks later than others. He seems genuinely interested in talking, but I just can't understand him.  Since the hearing test showed his ear drum isn't moving and that sound wasn't echoing back like it should- we definitely need to find out why.   What's an EI? What is the benefit to a private therapist? Or is that what he is already seeing? lol sorry I am confused.  His speech therapy is every other week at our house and every other week at a community center where the early learning services is.  They also invited him to their playgroup which we are trying this morning.

I'm glad you told me more about the fluid, his doctors haven't told me much.  Have you ever heard of any other possibilities for the ear drum being restricted- or is it always caused by fluid? If it's always caused by fluid then I think we need to be more aggressive in exploring allergies and such.

He has another hearing test on the 16th and speech therapy tomorrow. He's going to have it once a week.

[SundayCrepes]

Don't worry about trying to get his attention with the signing. Just sign as you talk. Learn the signs and just use them as part of your conversation. He'll figure it out if it's natural for you. Here's a really good dictionary that I carried in my diaper bag: http://www.amazon.com/Teach-Your-Tot-Sign-American/dp/1563683113/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1326311404&sr=8-1 You can get a used copy for $4 with delivery, less if you belong to amazon prime.

Important first signs "more" "eat" "drink" "potty" "play" (if he was younger I'd say "milk.")

This dvd is really helpful if the book isn't enough. http://www.amazon.com/SIGN-your-BABY-How-Reference/dp/1932354018/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_b

Originally Posted by SomethingAnonymous 

We have been trying to sign with him since we found out, he's learned a couple words- I've found the biggest obstacle is that he doesn't look at me for long enough for me to show him.  Whenever he is doing something that I know the sign for, I try to get his attention, but he just doesn't look up most of the time. I'm not giving up though- and I've been trying to get his dad and grandma to join in helping teach him when they interact with him.