Question for those whose chilren take riding lessons

[midnightwriter]

How do your know that your child is getting quality instruction?

I know very little about riding or horses (only form DD(9) ), and practically nothing about how children are instructed. It is her second summer taking lessons. Lessons are available during winter as well, but DD has sensory issues and getting her comfortable and warm enough clothing for riding is an issue.

DD's lessons are in Western style of riding.

She arrives to the farm, spends some time brushing her horse, and then puts the saddle etc, with some supervision.

During some lessons they go on a trail ride, and sometimes she rides in the paddock.

She usually gets to ride the same horse, but from time to time asks to try other horses, and is allowed.

She's been taught how to sit properly, hands low, heels down. This summer she is also able to trott, and also says that the horse she most often rides accepted her as her leader.

After the riding she spends up to 40 minutes in the stables, brushing her horse and hangout out with other horses.

Last year I stayed there for the lessons, but this year she doesn't want me to stay, and my younger kids don't always like hanging out on the farm, so I haven't seen her ride yet.

I AM happy with the relaxed attitude there, as it suits DD's personality well. I generally quite like the people who run the farm.

Each lesson is $34. I heard that in other stables, when teenagers teach the class, the cost is significantly lower. At our stables, there's no structure, and sometimes it is a teenager, and sometimes the owner. It is unpredictable, and the cost is the same.

DD reads a lot about horses on her own, and knows a lot about horses. At one

point she was worried that S. wasn't putting her on the lead while she was learning to trott, as she'd read that this was how it was supposed to be done. But then the issue seemed to have resolved itself.

Is there something else that is supposed to be happening? Or that's it?

[Linda on the move]

I was kinda waiting to see what others said!

I don't know anything about horses and am not a horsy person myself. My kids have taken lessons and gone to camps several different places. (We move a lot)

I think part of what makes it good is whether or not it is a good fit for your child and her goals. In one city, we went to a stable that was super relaxed and mellow and when we moved, I wanted to go to a *better* stable, so we went to a place that was into breeding, shows, was fancier, had ribbons, etc. The teacher was very experienced and worked directly one-on-one with my kids -- encouraging perfection of skills like posting and small jumps.

For another child, it would have been great. But one of my DDs has sensory issues and just was scared. And talking to the teacher didn't help. She had a check list in her head of what kids need to learn and what they need to be able to do to complete, and she didn't get that was NEVER going to be what it was about for my DD. She just wanted to ride around on a horse and brush it. Her teacher saw her as defiant. DD quit riding and didn't go back for 2 years, and is still very opposed to any stable involved in competition.

May be after school starts, you could go by yourself and tour the other stables near you and just ask questions.

Think about what you know about your DD. Does she like to be  pushed? Would she like to compete? Some kids LOVE it.

Usborn does some nice books about riding, may be you and your DD could read more together and figure out if there is something that she wants to learn.

[Alyantavid]

Does she get actual instruction?

When I was taking lessons a zillion years ago, we went 3 times a week.  2 of those lessons were in the stable arena with the instructor teaching us things the entire time.  It was a small class, I think there was 3 of us?  One lesson a week, we'd go out on a ride.  I typically rode the same horse everytime unless the instructor wanted me to try a different one or my normal horse couldn't be ridden for whatever reason.

I think really, the most important things are that she learns the basics of riding and that she learns about caring for a horse at her age.  I do think it's a little strange that she's doing her second summer of lessons and is just now starting to trot?  If she's fine with that, great but I'd expect things to move faster than that. 

[eggsandpancakes]

I am a horse person, and it sounds like there might not be a whole lot of actual instruction going on. (I'd expect someone to be trotting in probably 2-3 months, and that's from raw beginner.) That said, if she's happy, and the horses are well suited to her, and she isn't being pushed too fast and too hard, that is worth more than anything else. AND if they've got the right type of horses and the right type of teaching, slow can be priceless. There is so much more to it than steering and speed control. You might want to take a lesson or two yourself. . . It might give you a better perspective on if the teaching style is something that meshes well with your daughter.

[insidevoice]

There is really no need to put a leadline on when a child is learning to trot.  School horses- in general- are pretty used to the routine- they tend to be fairly bomb proof and steady.  I know those we worked with (my mom taught riding for years, I rode competitively well into young adulthood) were well enough trained that they would follow a verbal command from the trainer even when the rider froze up and forgot what to do.  Only more advanced riders would be put on a hotter horse. 

I think some of the things I would be noticing about any teaching environment would be a. how much time was spent working with the animals without riding- to see how much understanding kids were given of behavior b. how much work is done in terms of movement and balance (for example, are the kids taught how to turn around on the animal's back?  Do they learn to lean back and lie down on top of the horse? How much attention is paid to  teaching them to really move and use their body WITH the horse instead of just riding ON the horse?  I don't do much with western/pleasure, and I find that- in general, they tend not to be as aware of having a nice deep seat and good use of their own body/legs so some of this may not be happening at any significant level.) c. Do the kids know how to fall off?  I know it sounds counterintuitive, but it really is one of the first thing kids SHOULD be taught- how to dismount in an emergency, and how to dismount should they begin to fall. 

I would expect comfort at a slow trot within about a month- maybe two and by six months or so they should be comfortable at a slow canter (lope in western styles.)

[dbsam]

My son, age 7, has only had four lessons (spread out over months because of vacations, illness, etc.)  and I am not a 'horse person'.  She has had him do no trail riding.  All his lessons are in the arena and are about 45 minutes long.  He's learned how to walk and trot (or between a walk and trot...I cannot remember the term) the horse through cones and in patterns - both riding and walking next to the horse (showmanship).  In the exercises he has the horse turn in various directions, stop, walk backwards, go between cones, turn in a circle, etc.  This is an older horse.  Next week she said she will put him on a younger more spirited horse.

I'm interested to hear the responses too.  There is a stable near us that is considered really great and really professional and I am wondering if we s/b going here.  I chose a different more relaxed setting because he was nervous about the other stable and he loves this instructor.  The person who is teaching him is a young woman who does this on the side - this is not her primary income.  I was wondering if he was learning what he needed to know but so far he really likes it.  My daughter had one lesson and decided she would rather play with the barn cats.

Edited by dbsam - 8/12/11 at 5:11pm

[midnightwriter]

Originally Posted by Linda on the move 

I was kinda waiting to see what others said!

I don't know anything about horses and am not a horsy person myself. My kids have taken lessons and gone to camps several different places. (We move a lot)

I think part of what makes it good is whether or not it is a good fit for your child and her goals. In one city, we went to a stable that was super relaxed and mellow and when we moved, I wanted to go to a *better* stable, so we went to a place that was into breeding, shows, was fancier, had ribbons, etc. The teacher was very experienced and worked directly one-on-one with my kids -- encouraging perfection of skills like posting and small jumps.

For another child, it would have been great. But one of my DDs has sensory issues and just was scared. And talking to the teacher didn't help. She had a check list in her head of what kids need to learn and what they need to be able to do to complete, and she didn't get that was NEVER going to be what it was about for my DD. She just wanted to ride around on a horse and brush it. Her teacher saw her as defiant. DD quit riding and didn't go back for 2 years, and is still very opposed to any stable involved in competition.

May be after school starts, you could go by yourself and tour the other stables near you and just ask questions.

Think about what you know about your DD. Does she like to be  pushed? Would she like to compete? Some kids LOVE it.

Usborn does some nice books about riding, may be you and your DD could read more together and figure out if there is something that she wants to learn.

This is a good point. DD does NOT like to compete at all, and even the idea of a 'show' at the end of the camp was anxiety provoking for her. Because we (the parents) were 30 min late  (not our fault, but still), DD rode when others were already enjoying a bbq, so she was okay wih only us watching. So it was fortunate, as she would not have wanted all the other parents to watch. 

 

[midnightwriter]

Originally Posted by Alyantavid 

Does she get actual instruction?

When I was taking lessons a zillion years ago, we went 3 times a week.  2 of those lessons were in the stable arena with the instructor teaching us things the entire time.  It was a small class, I think there was 3 of us?  One lesson a week, we'd go out on a ride.  I typically rode the same horse everytime unless the instructor wanted me to try a different one or my normal horse couldn't be ridden for whatever reason.

I think really, the most important things are that she learns the basics of riding and that she learns about caring for a horse at her age.  I do think it's a little strange that she's doing her second summer of lessons and is just now starting to trot?  If she's fine with that, great but I'd expect things to move faster than that. 

It is difficult to tell if she gets instruction. When she just started, those were the things that we could observe, like when she was adjusting her posture, based on what S was telling her. But now, any instruction would be not really observable to us.

She did learn a lot about caring for a horse.

Her lessons are once a week, but we might  up it a bit in the fall. She'd had about 10 lessons last summer, plus camp, and about 6 lessons this summer (horrible weather). She is riding a 23 year old horse (we were told today that it is likely Jessie's last year at the stables. This will be devastating for DD....but that's another issue. Another horse at the stables had colic and had to be put down, and DD was upset, even if she didn't 'know' the horse well ).

Her horse is apparently known for not liking trotting. She needs someone to run infront for her to trot. So here I'm not sure whether this shows that DD has no control of the horse, or the horse is extremely unresponsive. DD says that when there's another horse in front of Jessie, she will trot for about half of the paddock. She also said that it is hard for her to keep her heels down and to stay balanced in the saddle. She is eager to trot more. I'm not sure why she is held back--because S. thinks she is not ready, or S is simply not putting enough efforts in instruction.

Today for the show, I was eager to see her trot (haven't seen yet), and she did for like 10 seconds, and then the girl who was with her, stopped the horse. DD was not pleased, as she too, wanted to trot more.

[midnightwriter]

Originally Posted by tinahiggins 

I am a horse person, and it sounds like there might not be a whole lot of actual instruction going on. (I'd expect someone to be trotting in probably 2-3 months, and that's from raw beginner.) That said, if she's happy, and the horses are well suited to her, and she isn't being pushed too fast and too hard, that is worth more than anything else. AND if they've got the right type of horses and the right type of teaching, slow can be priceless. There is so much more to it than steering and speed control. You might want to take a lesson or two yourself. . . It might give you a better perspective on if the teaching style is something that meshes well with your daughter.

In 2-3 months of weekly lessons, or more than that? She is definitely not pushed much, and it does suit her personality. I'd just like to figure out if she is getting the 'right kind of teaching.' Not sure if taking some lessons myself will help me, as I could easily observe how she was instructed during the first lessons, with the most basic skills. Now, since I'm not sure what skills to look for, it is hard for me to figure it out. Especially since I haven't observed any lessons this summer. But now DD is eager for me to watch her again, so I will be there more.

[midnightwriter]

Originally Posted by insidevoice 

There is really no need to put a leadline on when a child is learning to trot.  

That's good to know. This is what she read in books, and it got me a touch concerned about the safety in classes.

School horses- in general- are pretty used to the routine- they tend to be fairly bomb proof and steady.  I know those we worked with (my mom taught riding for years, I rode competitively well into young adulthood) were well enough trained that they would follow a verbal command from the trainer even when the rider froze up and forgot what to do.  Only more advanced riders would be put on a hotter horse. 

I think some of the things I would be noticing about any teaching environment would be a. how much time was spent working with the animals without riding- to see how much understanding kids were given of behavior b. how much work is done in terms of movement and balance (for example, are the kids taught how to turn around on the animal's back?  Do they learn to lean back and lie down on top of the horse? How much attention is paid to  teaching them to really move and use their body WITH the horse instead of just riding ON the horse?  I don't do much with western/pleasure, and I find that- in general, they tend not to be as aware of having a nice deep seat and good use of their own body/legs so some of this may not be happening at any significant level.) c. Do the kids know how to fall off?  I know it sounds counterintuitive, but it really is one of the first thing kids SHOULD be taught- how to dismount in an emergency, and how to dismount should they begin to fall. 

I would expect comfort at a slow trot within about a month- maybe two and by six months or so they should be comfortable at a slow canter (lope in western styles.)

a. She spends a lot of time with the horses, and has learned a lot. S. talks about behaviour a lot, and DD seemed to have internalised so much.

b. no movement / balance work at all. DD read about it in her books too, and last summer wanted me to ask S about it, but somehow we never got to it. I'm confused about the bolded?

c. I will have to ask her about learning to fall. DD hasn't mentioned it specifically. Now as you said it, I'd definitely want her to learn those skills ASAP.

[midnightwriter]

Originally Posted by dbsam 

My son, age 7, has only had four lessons (spread out over months because of vacations, illness, etc.)  and I am not a 'horse person'.  She has had him do no trail riding.  All his lessons are in the arena and are about 45 minutes long.  He's learned how to walk and trot (or between a walk and trot...I cannot remember the term) the horse through cones and in patterns - both riding and walking next to the horse (showmanship).  In the exercises he has the horse turn in various directions, stop, walk backwards, go between cones, turn in a circle, etc.  This is an older horse.  Next week she said she will put him on a younger more spirited horse.

I'm interested to hear the responses too.  There is a stable near us that is considered really great and really professional and I am wondering if we s/b going here.  I chose a different more relaxed setting because he was nervous about the other stable and he loves this instructor.  The person who is teaching him is a young woman who does this on the side - this is not her primary income.  I was wondering if he was learning what he needed to know but so far he really likes it.  My daughter had one lesson and decided she would rather play with the barn cats.

She does ride the horse through the patterns and cones, this is how her lessons are, and walking with her horse as well. Haven't seen her walk backwards, but the rest she is doing.

That's the thing, DD really loves S. This is also the closest stables--7 min drive, vs. 30+ for the others.
 

[midnightwriter]

Thank you for all the thoughtful responses, this is really, really helpful. More thoughts and questions below...

I'm considering having DD take some lessons at other stables, just to see how things are done, but I'd like to continue with S for the most part. DH says that this wouldn't be loyal to S. Are those things done? Can we try lessons at other places to test the waters? (And check out the prices too).

I do like S, and DD loves her, but today S told me something that horrified me. Like freaking horrified. She was talking about the previous camp week, where she had a difficult teenager. Apparently when the grandparents picked her up, they were so excited that their granddaughter was allowed to come back, because she's been kicked out from every camp so far. The girl yelled at S, smacke someone on their behind, and so on. The part that horrified me: It was very stormy that day--constant lightning, and frequent thunder. No rain. S. had the campers in the second barn, watching a movie, and explained to them that the horses are easily spooked, and riding wouldn't be a good idea. So the teenager yelled at S, and was really rude to her, and finally S said, FINE, go get the saddle and ride. When the girl refused, S insisted on getting the saddle. It ended up with all 6 girls riding in the padock. With a particularly lound thunder, 5 girls fell off their horses. The 'troubled teen' was the only one who got hurt, but apparently not seriously.

Now, S. says that the girl's demeanour changed dramatically for the rest of the camp, and that her grandparents said it was the best thing that happened to her, as she was getting to be out of control and what not.

I'm seriously concerned about this lack of judgment on behalf of S. Am I right to think that it could have ended up with tragedy? Or there was something that S. knew that I don't? Was it on the safer side to let 6 inexperienced riders in the paddock during at thunderstorm?

I'm also thinking to talk to S, somehow, about the expectations she has for DD in terms of skills / learning for this summer and fall. I really appreciate all the feedback in this thread, as now I have better ideas what to talk about.

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by midnightwriter 
It ended up with all 6 girls riding in the padock. With a particularly lound thunder, 5 girls fell off their horses. The 'troubled teen' was the only one who got hurt, but apparently not seriously..

In my mind, horseback riding is a reasonably safe activity when ALL safety guidelines (including helmets) are followed. Without following safety guidelines, it is an activity with a higher likelihood of resulting in brain damage, spinal cord damage, or even death.

My child wouldn't be going back. It's not OK in my book to teach some other kid a lesson by putting my child in danger.

[karne]

Horse family, chiming in.  OP, your last post was an example of inappropriate and dangerous behavior.  I would leave because it doesn't sound safe.

Here's our view: safety trumps all.  My dd rides almost every day, jumps, cross county riding, etc.  I would not waste $ on a situation that wasn't fully qualified and safety conscious,esp. when a child is inexperienced (anything before an intermediate rider) and/or young.  This doesn't mean a fancy show barn, or fancy horses.  I have seen some of the best instruction in low key, non-competition barns, with stellar, experienced, instructors.  If teens are instructing, they have supervison or oversight by the adult(s) in charge.  Some teens are really wonderful with beginners.  My child assists on occasion, but always supervised.

There was a post above that said that there 7 y/o was going to be moved to a younger, more spirited horse.  I would really advise caution.  The best school horse for a beginner is a stable, bombproof lesson horse-you don't need young and spirited after 4 lessons.  Accidents happen, and it can be really traumatic for kids, so go slow and be safe.

i agree w/ learning how to emergency dismount and fall "safely".  Balance, a good seat, etc. all take lots of time.  My advanced rider still works on these things!

OP, I would figure out what your dd wants at this moment, and look for a solid instructor.  Don't immediately sign up with a barn.  Go and observe lessons at a few places, take a lesson or two and see how it goes.  Be cautious, and have fun!

ETA: Make sure you have a really good helmet!

[mtiger]

Originally Posted by insidevoice 

I think some of the things I would be noticing about any teaching environment would be a. how much time was spent working with the animals without riding- to see how much understanding kids were given of behavior b. how much work is done in terms of movement and balance (for example, are the kids taught how to turn around on the animal's back?  Do they learn to lean back and lie down on top of the horse? How much attention is paid to  teaching them to really move and use their body WITH the horse instead of just riding ON the horse?  I don't do much with western/pleasure, and I find that- in general, they tend not to be as aware of having a nice deep seat and good use of their own body/legs so some of this may not be happening at any significant level.) c. Do the kids know how to fall off?  I know it sounds counterintuitive, but it really is one of the first thing kids SHOULD be taught- how to dismount in an emergency, and how to dismount should they begin to fall. 

I would expect comfort at a slow trot within about a month- maybe two and by six months or so they should be comfortable at a slow canter (lope in western styles.)

First para is SPOT ON! This is really important stuff to know, and helps kids become more comfortable being on and around a horse.

Second para... While I would expect a slow trot in relatively short order, I do think a lot depends on the rider. I get the feeling that OP's daughter may need a little more time in moving forward in pace, so waiting longer may have been right for her.

The most important thing, to me, would be what the instructor is like and how the child feels. If she likes riding, likes her instructor and is moving forward (even if at a slower pace)? It's all good. I had an instructor (as an adult) who would have at least one student in tears every lesson. He had me at the point of wanting to vomit before I got there until I left for every blessed lesson. He was great with the horses, but he was abusive to staff and students. That's not what you want.

[Alyantavid]

Originally Posted by midnightwriter 

It is difficult to tell if she gets instruction. When she just started, those were the things that we could observe, like when she was adjusting her posture, based on what S was telling her. But now, any instruction would be not really observable to us.

She did learn a lot about caring for a horse.

Her lessons are once a week, but we might  up it a bit in the fall. She'd had about 10 lessons last summer, plus camp, and about 6 lessons this summer (horrible weather). She is riding a 23 year old horse (we were told today that it is likely Jessie's last year at the stables. This will be devastating for DD....but that's another issue. Another horse at the stables had colic and had to be put down, and DD was upset, even if she didn't 'know' the horse well ).

Her horse is apparently known for not liking trotting. She needs someone to run infront for her to trot. So here I'm not sure whether this shows that DD has no control of the horse, or the horse is extremely unresponsive. DD says that when there's another horse in front of Jessie, she will trot for about half of the paddock. She also said that it is hard for her to keep her heels down and to stay balanced in the saddle. She is eager to trot more. I'm not sure why she is held back--because S. thinks she is not ready, or S is simply not putting enough efforts in instruction.

Today for the show, I was eager to see her trot (haven't seen yet), and she did for like 10 seconds, and then the girl who was with her, stopped the horse. DD was not pleased, as she too, wanted to trot more.

You should be able to see if she gets any instruction.  Stay for her lesson and see what the instructor does with her.  A horse that a beginner is starting out on really shouldn't have any issues like not wanting to trot.  I'd definitely ask for a different horse.  I think I'd be looking for a different stable.
 

 

[karne]

Originally Posted by midnightwriter 

It is difficult to tell if she gets instruction. When she just started, those were the things that we could observe, like when she was adjusting her posture, based on what S was telling her. But now, any instruction would be not really observable to us.

Her horse is apparently known for not liking trotting. She needs someone to run infront for her to trot. So here I'm not sure whether this shows that DD has no control of the horse, or the horse is extremely unresponsive. DD says that when there's another horse in front of Jessie, she will trot for about half of the paddock. She also said that it is hard for her to keep her heels down and to stay balanced in the saddle. She is eager to trot more. I'm not sure why she is held back--because S. thinks she is not ready, or S is simply not putting enough efforts in instruction.

Today for the show, I was eager to see her trot (haven't seen yet), and she did for like 10 seconds, and then the girl who was with her, stopped the horse. DD was not pleased, as she too, wanted to trot more.

You should be able to see instruction at all of the lessons, unless a rider is just pleasure/practice riding without instruction.  I don't know why you would say that instruction isn't observable to you?

Regarding the trotting, indeed, some lesson horses are very pokey and if they aren't being ridden by a strong rider, it can take a lot to get them into a trot, and then stay in the trot once they are there.  The horse is responding to the "aids" a rider is giving in order to know what to do.  Given the experience your dd has had in lessons and camp, it may be that she needs another horse that is more responsive, or more likely, she needs to have her lessons focused on working with the horse, getting a good seat, good balance, and learning to use her legs.  Does the instructor ever put her on the leadline/lunge to help keep a trot for your dd to feel what it's like?

[midnightwriter]

Originally Posted by karne 

You should be able to see instruction at all of the lessons, unless a rider is just pleasure/practice riding without instruction.  I don't know why you would say that instruction isn't observable to you?

Regarding the trotting, indeed, some lesson horses are very pokey and if they aren't being ridden by a strong rider, it can take a lot to get them into a trot, and then stay in the trot once they are there.  The horse is responding to the "aids" a rider is giving in order to know what to do.  Given the experience your dd has had in lessons and camp, it may be that she needs another horse that is more responsive, or more likely, she needs to have her lessons focused on working with the horse, getting a good seat, good balance, and learning to use her legs.  Does the instructor ever put her on the leadline/lunge to help keep a trot for your dd to feel what it's like?

All I see during lessons is DD on the horse, and S. walking nearby. DD rides around the ring, around various obstacles. I can't hear what the instructor says, though from time to time she does say something. When DD first started, I could see her adjust her posture based on what she was told, but now whatever she is doing differently based on the instructions, is not observable to me. What should I be looking for? What aspects of this could be observable?

She's never been on a leadline, but she says she wants to, so we will talk to S. Today DD ready yet another book about riding, and brought some pictures to show me, of a girl balancing on her horse without the sadle, with her strethed to the sides. DD would like to do this exercise. We will bring the book for the next class. DD does barback riding during the lessons, and I think she wants to work on those skills as well.

DD says she is able to trot half of the paddock, during her lessons. She is very eager to trot more. I will ask S. to keep her on the leadline, so she can trot for a more sustained period of time.

[midnightwriter]

The instructor walks near her or watches from the center. I see the istructor talk to her, but because of the distance, I don't know what she is saying.

DD keeps asking for a different horse, and from time to time she gets to ride another horse, but her most usual horse remains the same.

 

Originally Posted by Alyantavid 

You should be able to see if she gets any instruction.  Stay for her lesson and see what the instructor does with her.  A horse that a beginner is starting out on really shouldn't have any issues like not wanting to trot.  I'd definitely ask for a different horse.  I think I'd be looking for a different stable.
 

[midnightwriter]

Originally Posted by mtiger 

First para is SPOT ON! This is really important stuff to know, and helps kids become more comfortable being on and around a horse.

Second para... While I would expect a slow trot in relatively short order, I do think a lot depends on the rider. I get the feeling that OP's daughter may need a little more time in moving forward in pace, so waiting longer may have been right for her.

The most important thing, to me, would be what the instructor is like and how the child feels. If she likes riding, likes her instructor and is moving forward (even if at a slower pace)? It's all good. I had an instructor (as an adult) who would have at least one student in tears every lesson. He had me at the point of wanting to vomit before I got there until I left for every blessed lesson. He was great with the horses, but he was abusive to staff and students. That's not what you want.

 This is my point of view as well. My main concern is that I feel a bit in the dark what she is supposed to be learning, how the progression usually works, what to expect etc. I'd like to know that there are some standars there and I don't want to be taken advantage of. I want DD to have lessons / learn, not to just ride for fun with very rudimentary skills.

I did hear about another local stable, where the instructor often makes girls cry. Shudder.