Gifted tantrums in 2.5 yo - HELP!

[MittensKittens]

My youngest child is 2.5 yo, and was not tested but he is quite obviously a giftie, like the rest of the family. In the last month, he had apparently started that toddler tantrum phrase. Tantrums are sparked by not getting his way. Our "hot issues" are chocolate, him wanting to play outside when it is bed time, him not wanting to hold hands outside or even sit on my lap in public transportation. 

He uses phrases like this when he is angry:

• "Get out of my eyes!", "I don't want to see you."
• "I don't love you anymore, mommy!"
• "Well, I am going to do it anyway. See if you can stop me."
• (Mainly when arguing over chocolate) "You are hurting my feelings. You are a mean person."
• "I am very angry with you."
• "Your words are like hitting to me," or "Stop hitting me with your words."

My DD never went through this phase. She was much less verbal at this age, so this is new to me. I am honestly at a loss how to react. His wants are typical for a toddler. His replies provoke the desire to engage in adult conversation with him, or alternatively to just scream!

If you have or have had a highly verbal toddler in the tantrum stage, how do or did you react? This goes on pretty much all day long some days, and on those days, I feel like I am going crazy. 

ETA - Nobody EVER says things like this to him, accept for the "I am angry with you". He comes up with these things all on his own. 

[MomofSev]

I would remember that, despite his obvious giftedness, he is still 2 1/2 and is prone to outbursts just like any 2 1/2  year old. Don't give in to the adult conversations, treat him like the 2 1/2 year old that he is. If he is not behaving, discipline him with whatever method you use. Maybe use phrases like "I still love you, but I am not happy with the choices you have made" or .." are making." I used this with my child and, yes, it has come back to me and he has said "Mommy, you are not making good choices" but that is a lot less harmful than "I am angry with you" or "I don't love you anymore".  Also you could emphasize that, arguing with you is not going to change any of your decisions or get him his way.

They grow out of it. Some take longer than others.

[crunchy_mommy]

Originally Posted by MomofSev 

I would remember that, despite his obvious giftedness, he is still 2 1/2 and is prone to outbursts just like any 2 1/2  year old. Don't give in to the adult conversations, treat him like the 2 1/2 year old that he is.

My 2.5yo is also highly verbal but not as emotionally aware as your DS sounds (he won't even say "I love you" to me, never mind "I don't love you anymore" ) But he has great rationale for things; his favorite word lately seems to be "because" and he goes on & on with all his reasoning and really, a lot of it makes sense, so I have a hard time not just giving in to him (and I do give in sometimes, if his explanation is good enough!!) But most of the time I just try to treat him like he's 2 and just try not to engage in it. Really, I try to engage in tantrums minimally in the first place, I don't exactly ignore him but I do find reasoning with him just makes it worse because it gives him the idea that if he can come up with a good enough loop-hole, he can get around it, when really (most of the time) he needs to do XYZ no matter what reasoning he comes up with. So I just simply state what he needs to do/not do/whatever and then move on with things. He is free to cry as much as he wants and I'm there to offer comfort but we are not going to engage in a battle over it. (Easier said than done!!)

Sorry about the run-on sentences up there, talking tantrums brings out the 2yo in me.

Oh and chocolate is one of our hot-button issues too!

[whatsnextmom]

He may be verbal, but that doesn't mean he has the right to say anything he wants. It's OK for him to tell you he's angry. It's OK for him to want a concrete answer as to why you said "no." Telling you he doesn't love you or that he's going to do something anyways is spiteful and disrespectful. Certainly call him on it. Be calm and firm. Tell him you aren't going to have a conversation with him until he calms down and then leave the room. DON'T give him an audience. Don't try to compromise or have a discussion with him about his choices until he's being appropriate again. If that means you have to lock yourself in your room, so be it. If you take a firm stance now, it's unlikely this will go much further. Something that can help too is when you say "yes", preface it with the why. "Oh, we ate dinner and we haven't had our dessert so absolutely you can have that chocolate you asked for." "It  is nice and sunny. YES, we can go outside and play." If you made a promise earlier, remind him of it when you follow through "You asked me earlier to read a story but I was on the phone. Now I'm off the phone and I can read you any book you'd like."

My youngest had the tantrums in our family. He didn't say hurtful things but very over-dramatic things about his own pain and sorrow. Then, he'd just not budge. I mean, physically and emotionally not budge. That's a lot of fun when you are in Yosemite and your 2-year-old decides first day that he will not walk for 3 days!  The boy didn't eat for 2 days because we were out of raisen bran and I couldn't leave right that very second to get more. He once was so angry that I'd put him on a time out for hitting his sister that he sat on the stair I'd put him on all day and then slept on it all night! I feel your pain (and like you, his big sister did none of that!)

I will say, when you've truely locked horns, a certain amount of redirection is helpful too. Doing something tactile really calmed DS down quickly. When we were locking horns and could make no progress, I'd require him to pound on the playdough or put some water in the sink and tell him to bring his bath toys. He within minutes, he'd totally relax and be ready for an actual conversation.

Just don't fall into the trap of compromising with him while he's in the middle of a tantrum. I'm not saying to never compromise. If he's calm and giving a good argument as to why he should get his way, well, then rethinking your position may very well be the most appropriate action. However, he starts telling you he doesn't love you, just shut him out until he's ready to talk.

Hugs to you. I know it's hard but if you are calm and firm in your expectations, it will pass sooner than later.

[OTMomma]

My oldest could throw a tantrum with the best of them. I found the most important things were the same as those of all toddlers; being hungry, sleepy or having food reactions all caused more and worse tantrums. If she ate certain foods, artificial colors, flavors and preservatives those led to tantrums. If she got too hungry, she had tantrums and would get so mad at me I would have to use her doll as a helper. I would fix a snack and give it to her doll, tell the doll to share and walk away. She and the doll would eat the snack, and she would return to her human form.

Actually, using her doll as a friend was the best tactic I had. I would make the doll (a Waldorf doll I had made for her), talk to her about all kinds of things. Sometimes she and the doll were just silly, sometimes the doll asked her to explain things-so she could be the expert, and sometimes it pointed out that dd hurt it's feelings or she didn't like it when dd "talked that way".

I hope this helps some.

[MittensKittens]

Thanks for your support and tips. Reading I am not alone actually helps :). 

Perhaps asynchronous is best demonstrated in the toddler years? The kid's wants are typically two year old, yet he comes up with adult-like answers when his every want is not indulged! 

Disciplining has been tough. With DD, the chosen method of discipline was talking about things (and still is). That does not work for DS, at all. He will just go on, and on, and on. I have tried time outs. They don't work either. The little fellow feels he was horribly wronged and will actually tell relatives that mommy played policeman and arrested him, again! (He loves police officers and says he wants to be one.)

Just now, a balloon he had been given somewhere broke, and he told me, "Mama, the balloon is misbehaving. It broke. I will put it in time out now." I don't think time outs do much for him. I also tried time ins, but those are even worse. I have, at times, considered parental time outs in the bathroom! 

I like the doll idea. I will try, but have a feeling he will just say, "Why are you pretending to be the doll?"

[LynnS6]

Have you read "How to Talk So Your Children Will Listen... And Listen So Your Children Will Talk?" There are also some good books on Non-violent communication that might help (but I can never remember any titles).

This is a great time for you to help teach him the words for his strong emotions. "Oh, it sounds like you're really upset/mad/angry/disappointed/frustrated". The more his emotion vocabulary improves, and the more time he has to learn to deal with his intense emotions, the better he'll be able to identify them. It's a real gift to your child to help them to be identify and talk about their emotions. But it's a gift that takes years and years to give.

I'm in the middle of Raising Cain and one of the points the authors of that book make are that boys tend not to have words for their emotions as much as girls do and that parents tend not to talk about emotions as much with boys as they do with girls. Since the books is a good 15 years old, I'm not sure how true that is, but I do know that giving kids words for their emotions can really help them. When ds was just under 2 1/2 he was terrified of loud noises. He'd had a bad fireworks experience that year (just with the ones lit off in the neighborhood), but it was before we realized the extent of ds' sensory issues. He spent the next 2 months saying "I'm scared" any time a loud noise went off. I'm not sure what prompted me to do this, but I started teaching him the difference between 'scared,' 'startled,' and 'surprised'. The word 'startled' was really powerful for him. When he jumped/screamed after a loud noise, I'd say "oh that startled you". I could see him process that thought and his body visibly relax as he did so. He would remember that 'startled' was temporary and manageable.

Note too that if your son tends toward strong feelings, managing his emotions is going to take years, not months. Our intense 7 year old still flies off the handle and says things like "You are so mean!" "I never get to do what I want to do!" and other irrational things when she's mad. She feels that way in the moment, and that's what comes out. It's not a permanent feeling, it's temporary because she's angry. I think it's important to remember that when your son says "I don't love you anymore, momma" what he's really saying is "I'm really mad at you right now, momma".

The way we treat tantrums (when we're on our game and not tired/hungry ourselves):

Acknowledge the feeling, offer comfort if they'll take it (often they're too upset to want to cuddle), and then disengage. When they're having a tantrum, it's not a time for reasoning or teaching. Pointing out to dd all the times she does get to do what she wants when she declares "I never get to do what I want to do!" is useless.  If my kids are overtired, hungry, stressed, lonely or out of their routine, I also know that it's not a teachable moment. What we have to do is manage the environment to fix the real problem (get them to sleep, eat, relax, or reconnect).

If it goes on for a long time, we'll ask them to take it elsewhere. Both my kids often need to be by themselves to calm down. When they were 2-3-4, we would have to bring them to their rooms. Now we simply say "that's enough, if you want to continue, take it to your room." Both have gotten quite good at stomping off and slamming the door. Personally, I see that as real progress in emotional regulation.

[KCMichigan]

Originally Posted by LynnS6 

I'm in the middle of Raising Cain and one of the points the authors of that book make are that boys tend not to have words for their emotions as much as girls do and that parents tend not to talk about emotions as much with boys as they do with girls. Since the books is a good 15 years old, I'm not sure how true that is, but I do know that giving kids words for their emotions can really help them. When ds was just under 2 1/2 he was terrified of loud noises. He'd had a bad fireworks experience that year (just with the ones lit off in the neighborhood), but it was before we realized the extent of ds' sensory issues. He spent the next 2 months saying "I'm scared" any time a loud noise went off. I'm not sure what prompted me to do this, but I started teaching him the difference between 'scared,' 'startled,' and 'surprised'. The word 'startled' was really powerful for him. When he jumped/screamed after a loud noise, I'd say "oh that startled you". I could see him process that thought and his body visibly relax as he did so. He would remember that 'startled' was temporary and manageable.

Ditto above. Giving one of my DDs more language to help her process her feelings was a very powerful too. She could describe upset, angry, furious, worried, scared etc. That also helped us understand what she was feeling rather than "mad" which is rather vague. 

The way we treat tantrums (when we're on our game and not tired/hungry ourselves):

Acknowledge the feeling, offer comfort if they'll take it (often they're too upset to want to cuddle), and then disengage. When they're having a tantrum, it's not a time for reasoning or teaching. Pointing out to dd all the times she does get to do what she wants when she declares "I never get to do what I want to do!" is useless.  If my kids are overtired, hungry, stressed, lonely or out of their routine, I also know that it's not a teachable moment. What we have to do is manage the environment to fix the real problem (get them to sleep, eat, relax, or reconnect).

If it goes on for a long time, we'll ask them to take it elsewhere. Both my kids often need to be by themselves to calm down. When they were 2-3-4, we would have to bring them to their rooms. Now we simply say "that's enough, if you want to continue, take it to your room." Both have gotten quite good at stomping off and slamming the door. Personally, I see that as real progress in emotional regulation.

Ditto above. Tantrums are common at that age, even more common with 'intense' personalities. Combine them and well...you get a lot of intense tantrums! Our best tool was to work the environment, make sure sleep, food, and stress were not factors and then teach some coping tools (such as going to room) We stressed it is not a punishment, rather it is a way to calm down and when they are calmed down the can return.

I would also take out obsessive things if you can (chocolate). We got rid of a certain blanket at night when one DD was young because she had FITS over where it was, how it was laying, etc at night and at that point of day she was too tired to regulate well.  It was unreasonable at the end of a long day to expect her to be able to handle whatever obsession she had with that blanket in a certain place.

We also stressed that she (we have all DDs) was making choices....and then asking her what she thinks would happen if she chose to X and what if she chose y? Then let her chose. It was her CHOICE. The sense of control and personal accountability was huge.

Last--- we do a lot of 'preemptive' tantrum control. Like reviewing the schedule so that there are no surprises to the day. Reminders for 2-5 min of changing activities. Allowing limited choices (bath or story first?). 

We also did a lot of    If you_____ then _____ will happen around age 3 for both posititve and negative events (if you pick up your toys then we can go outside. If you choose not to pick up your toys then we will stay inside.)  

[Tigerle]

We also did a lot of    If you_____ then _____ will happen around age 3 for both posititve and negative events (if you pick up your toys then we can go outside. If you choose not to pick up your toys then we will stay inside.)  

Warning - if-then with a highly verbal kid can totally blow up in your faces, it certainly did in our family, because our DS immediately started doing it to us about everything, too. Drove me bonkers!

[KCMichigan]

Originally Posted by Tigerle 

Warning - if-then with a highly verbal kid can totally blow up in your faces, it certainly did in our family, because our DS immediately started doing it to us about everything, too. Drove me bonkers!

Both DDs were/are very verbal....but only one tossed this back to us! "If you dont give me a cookie I am going to throw myself on the floor and scream!" we would just shrug and say OK. She would throw herself on the floor, scream. No cookie. Somehow it lost its luster! We still see it now and then.... Moooom! If you let me go in the woods and play fairy world then I will love you for eternity. Hmmm.... thanks but its bedtime! We also hear "If you drive too fast then you will get a ticket and have to go to jail! SLOW DOWN" and if if if if....but I guess it is like the why, why. why.  Curious kid- lots of why, if, what, when, how...... but still can be annoying at times.

Other DD never tossed it back to us- and she is actually has stronger language (vocab/context/comprehension) skills but lower social- language usage.

Different kiddos different reactions.

[MittensKittens]

Originally Posted by KCMichigan 

Both DDs were/are very verbal....but only one tossed this back to us! "If you dont give me a cookie I am going to throw myself on the floor and scream!" we would just shrug and say OK. She would throw herself on the floor, scream. No cookie. Somehow it lost its luster! We still see it now and then.... Moooom! If you let me go in the woods and play fairy world then I will love you for eternity. Hmmm.... thanks but its bedtime! We also hear "If you drive too fast then you will get a ticket and have to go to jail! SLOW DOWN" and if if if if....but I guess it is like the why, why. why.  Curious kid- lots of why, if, what, when, how...... but still can be annoying at times.

Other DD never tossed it back to us- and she is actually has stronger language (vocab/context/comprehension) skills but lower social- language usage.

Different kiddos different reactions.

Mine says, "I don't care, I am going to do it anyway. See if you can stop me!" - and then, of course, I show him that I can indeed stop him. 

LynnS6, thanks for the reminder of that book. I read it years back and loved it, but didn't need it for DD much. I have implemented some of the suggestions in the last two days, and it seems to be helping. 

[Greenmama2]

Originally Posted by Tigerle 

Warning - if-then with a highly verbal kid can totally blow up in your faces, it certainly did in our family, because our DS immediately started doing it to us about everything, too. Drove me bonkers!

Uhuh!
I have 2 year old who is pretty verbal, but he is nothing on his sister. I remember staying with a retired pre-K teacher who had raised 5 kids of her own on an international trip at the time DD turned 2 (she had her birthday while we were there). I was kneeling on the kitchen floor trying to get a word in edgeways while DD was mid-meltdown about something and I looked up to find our host staring at us open mouthed. She apologized and said " I always assumed 2 year old tantrums were mostly frustration about not being able to communicate what was going on for them. Guess I was wrong."
Naomi Aldort's SALVE formula was useful here, as well as remembering not to get into a debate because she was not a mini-adult even if she did sound like one.