is something up with our 5yo neighbor?

[mini.beastie]

My daughter has recently made friends with a neighbor of ours, a 5yo little girl. Her family's lifestyle choices don't exactly vibe with our own (they play with barbies, have the tv on pretty much constantly playing Disney movies, etc) but they've been getting together anyways. I haven't been discouraging her friendship with this girl, but I'm starting to have second thoughts about this based on two recent happenings.

One day, a couple of weeks ago, I went to give my daughter a little peck on the lips, which we do all the time. My little girl then responds by trying to give me a weird sort of open mouthed kiss. Needless to say this was pretty unsettling, and after letting her know that we do NOT kiss with open mouths, I asked her where she got the idea to do this. She told me that the little neighbor girl had told her that's how princesses kiss, and that it's 'beautiful' to kiss with your mouth open. (We had a little discussion about who it is and is not appropriate to kiss, following this.)

The second incident was today, when this little girl was over our house for a playdate. She was telling me how much she likes her dad, and how he's very 'cute' and 'handsome'. Then she says he's 'a good lover'. Now I realize that this could be kid-speak for 'he's very loving', or something like that, but to be honest I'm still finding myself pretty disturbed.

Am I being paranoid, or is something weird going on with this little girl? Is something inappropriate going on between her and her dad (God forbid), or is she just picking up this age-inappropriate stuff from popular culture? In either case, I kind of don't want my daughter hanging out with her anymore. Any thoughts?

[Viola]

That does sound odd to me, but I'm not sure how you should proceed.  It could be that she's just seen too many adult things, but there might be more going on.  It's just so hard to know.  Can you just watch things more closely, not cut things off completely, or is that too problematic?

[nikkiethridge]

Have you watched them play at all? Is it mostly appropriate behavior outside of the two things you mentioned? Maybe observe a little closer. 

Have you met the family yet? I'd say if your daughter likes her friend, it's probably worth getting to know the girl and her family a little better before making any weird conclusions. I could see how the things that the girl said could be taken by adults as inappropriate, but you could also be hearing the 'lover' thing wrong (as you said) and she may have just been acting silly when talking about open mouth kissing. At the same time I wouldn't ignore that...actually I would be looking more into it. 

And so what they have a TV? I wouldn't discourage my son from seeing a friend who had a different lifestyle than us.

[mini.beastie]

I think even cutting things off completely would be problematic, since they live next door, and the girls see each other in the front yard all the time and ask to get together right there and then. I'd love to just have her over to our place, or if my daughter goes over to their place I'd like to go over and hang out with whichever parent is around while the girls are playing. But I'm not sure how I'd bring this up, or even to refuse a playdate, without offending the girl's parents.

Yes, it's only been these two incidents. The girls get along well, and seem to play normal games when I've hosted playdates. As much as I try not to be that paranoid, overprotective mom, I've got to say this whole situation has got me a little freaked out. I also get a bit of an off vibe from the family, but it's hard to tell if these are just my prejudices because we live such different lifestyles.

I know this is a totally different discussion, I don't have issue with the tv itself (we watch movies sometimes), rather the fact that it's constantly on and always playing disney princess movies (which we try to avoid for various reasons). But the tv isn't the issue that's bothering me... it's these two odd incidents.

[One_Girl]

I would bring it up with the mother when the dad isn't there.  I don't think you need to stop the playdates but it sounds like either her dd needs to have a discussion about what is and isn't appropriate to say about family or something is going on.  Either way I think it should be her mom who deals with it.

Edited by One_Girl - 8/14/11 at 3:20pm

[mamazee]

The Barbies and Disney movies wouldn't make me bat an eyeball. The kissing even on it's own wouldn't seem off, because kids at some point see grownups kissing, whether on TV or IRL, and try to imitate it. But the phrase "a good lover" seems odd with everything else. My best guess is she's watching grown up TV, not that she's being sexually abused, but I would probably talk to her mom maybe? Say what she's said and ask if she's watched movies with adult romance in them.

[mini.beastie]

Thanks for your thoughts everyone!

I don't think I'm close enough to the mom (we've only chatted to arrange playdates, and never before this month) to suggest to her that her daughter might be watching age-inappropriate movies. :( It's not really my place... I'd be offended if someone I barely knew suggested to me that implied I was doing something wrong in the way I raised my child.

And my guess is that her mom is totally okay with the little girl watching pretty much anything- they often have two televisions on at once in different rooms, and they're literally playing constantly. I guess she's okay with this little girl watching both her dad's and older sister's programming, and I know that's none of my business. As for the kissing thing, it's great for kids to see affection between parents, but open-mouthed kissing is going a bit far... I don't want my kid seeing sexual activity between adults.

I just don't want my daughter picking up this language (and, more importantly, these concepts) until she's old enough to understand them, or at least to have a real discussion with me about them.

[mamazee]

I disagree that open mouthed kissing is "sexual activity". People sometimes do it in public, and it's done frequently on TV and in movies.

I don't mean you should suggest it to her, just say, "My dd and your dd were playing and these two things came up. (Briefly describe them.) I am wondering if your dd might have picked that up from a movie or something? It kind of freaked me out, and I thought you might want to hear about it." Then drop it. Maybe the mom isn't aware of something going on and would want to know. I don't know if I'd assume it's from a movie, or assume she's being molested, or assume her mother knows and just doesn't care that she is talking about good lovers and giving open mouthed kisses. I'd just pass along the info in as non-judgmental a way as possible, so she can persue it if she wants and she feels it's necessary.

[LisaSedai]

That does seem like some troubling behavior. I wouldn't let my kid play at the neighbor's house unless I was there too.

[tooraloora]

The kissing thing I wouldn't give a second thought. I remember being 4 and attempting to lay one on my mother after watching her and my father kissing. I also had to recently tell my DD not to french the baby. I think it's normal for a young child to see adults open mouth kissing and then try it out for themselves. After you explain why that sort of kissing isn't appropriate between just anyone, just move on, imo. No biggie.

As far as the "good lover" comment, I'd say it's pretty likely that it's just little kid phrasing or something she picked up from TV or listening in on adult conversations. I probably wouldn't be concerned at just what you've mentioned. But then, my DD is spectacularly excellent and taking something perfectly innocent and saying it in a way that sounds absolutely terrible.

Things DD has at one point said to people:

"My mommy beats me with big sticks." It's a running family joke, and no I've never actually beat her - with a big stick or otherwise.

"Mommy likes locking me in the shed." I so do not, and it's not even a running family joke. She once asked if we could turn the shed into her new room, and asked if it locked on the outside. I made the mistake of jokingly asking "Why? If it does do I get to lock you in?"

"My mommy said my vagina is beautiful." Out of context that's just creepy. We were having a conversation about anatomy and the need for privacy in regards to our anatomy, and I was explaining that our genitals being something to be ashamed of was not why we needed privacy. During this part of the conversation, I at one point said something along the lines of "Vaginas are beautiful," she asked "Is mine beautiful, too?" and I said "Of course, sweetie," thinking nothing of it again until that little gem was randomly rattled off to a friend of ours.

She's also repeated things (can't remember anything off hand, usually having to do with finances, but could have been worse) out of context that I've said during phone conversations in the living room while she was supposed to be sleeping in the nearby bedroom.

I'm not saying completely blow it off as you never know, there could be something going on and paying attention couldn't hurt. I'm just saying that all of this could be totally innocent and it's not really enough to stir something up over.

[Neera]

Dd got into princesses this year. She had probably only watched Snow White before and hadn't enjoyed it. This year she watched some other princess stuff and one time tried to kiss me the way the princes kiss the princesses but her mouth wasn't open. She was just trying to push my head back.

[redpajama]

I think you're over-reacting, unless there's a lot more to this story.  

My kids have told me I'm a "good cooker" before.  I think it's reasonable to assume that just like "cooker" = "person who cooks, "lover" = "person who loves.  It's also possible that she's heard that word and assumed that's what it meant.  If there were something inappropriate going on between this girl and her father, use of the word "lover" in this context is not, in my opinion, evidence of it.

I think the kissing thing is pretty innocent, too--she's probably seen something on TV (or even in a Disney movie).  I understand that it sounds like maybe you don't let your daughter watch TV (or Disney movies?) based on your mention of them, but that doesn't mean there's something wrong with this other girl whose parents might make more "mainstream" choices.

[meemee]

yup paranoid. 

totally normal behaviour. 

dd at 3 1/2 gave me an open mouth kiss "but mommy, mj kisses spiderman like that'. 'ewwww those are wet kisses. ewww i dont like wet kisses. its like a dog licked me.' end of story. no more open mouth kisses.

great lover - kidspeak reflecting what's around them. no sexually abused child will ever say their dad was a great lover. i am not even sure at 5 they understand what that term meant. 

here's something to consider (if your child is going to go to school) - at least in this case ur dd is telling you and you can control the situation. 

but in school children say such bizarre things - from having heard it from elder siblings or popular culture or from adults. even at K.

all those kind of moments i treated as teachable moments. 

its 'AP' meet 'mainstream' world. that has nothing to do with friendship and children. my strange odd child has fit in v. well with her mainstream friends. 

[CA Country Girl]

Tooraloora

This is hilarious and oh so true.  They say all kinds of things we wish they did not in public- out of context and embarrassing, but I would agree, totally normal.  I have also been disturbed that all the princess movies end with a wedding and a big kissing scene.  I didn't like hearing my little year old telling me who she is going to marry and what she will wear, but decided to let my daughter go through the princess stage since it will probably last longer if I make a really big deal out of it, or try to forbid it.  It hit really hard right after she turned 4 and I think she is already almost over at 5.  They will get it somewhere, even if we try to keep it away.  I have tried to focus on telling all the qualities that are more important than physical beauty (what the princess movies all overemphasize), such as being generous and kind and smart.  I second the suggestions to try to nonchalantly talk to the other girls mom about it.  Maybe she will laugh with you.

[mommy68]

Originally Posted by Viola 

That does sound odd to me, but I'm not sure how you should proceed.  It could be that she's just seen too many adult things, but there might be more going on.  It's just so hard to know.  Can you just watch things more closely, not cut things off completely, or is that too problematic?

I agree.

It's hard to say if it's odd behavior because my own son used to say he wanted to marry me when he was around 5 years old. :-)  My daughter around the same age told her daddy she wanted to marry him. So that can be quite normal in some instances. But talking about him being a good lover, I don't know, sounds odd to me but without knowing where she may have picked up that choices of words (you said she watches a lot of t.v.) then I don't know. Stuff like that is said on prime time t.v., movies, soap operas, etc. So don't be too quick to blame her parents. The open-mouthed kissing (also seen on t.v. and in movies) my kids all did around 1-2 years old because they didn't understand the concept of kissing, lol. But at 5 years old I would think they would know how to kiss with mouth closed.

And I also wanted to ask you if you have met this other child's parents yet? I for one would NEVER allow my children to go to another child's house without first seeing the house and meeting with the parents myself. It simply will never happen, especially while they are very young. My teenager I'm a bit more relaxed with but under 13 I am more careful.

[BubbleMa]

Originally Posted by redpajama 

I think you're over-reacting, unless there's a lot more to this story.  

My kids have told me I'm a "good cooker" before.  I think it's reasonable to assume that just like "cooker" = "person who cooks, "lover" = "person who loves.  It's also possible that she's heard that word and assumed that's what it meant.  If there were something inappropriate going on between this girl and her father, use of the word "lover" in this context is not, in my opinion, evidence of it.

I think the kissing thing is pretty innocent, too--she's probably seen something on TV (or even in a Disney movie).  I understand that it sounds like maybe you don't let your daughter watch TV (or Disney movies?) based on your mention of them, but that doesn't mean there's something wrong with this other girl whose parents might make more "mainstream" choices.

I agree with everything, especially the bolded part.  I think it's totally innocent.  I would just keep an eye on things, and maybe suggest that their playdates be at your house.  DD has a friend that's only allowed to come here for playdates.
 

[eggsandpancakes]

It kinda surprises me that no one has mentioned that the mom of the other girl might not be the most discreet person in the whole world. Even though I wouldn't even consider having a make-out session in front of my kids or a "girlfriend conversation" on the phone while they were listening, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

[APToddlerMama]

Originally Posted by mini.beastie 

I think even cutting things off completely would be problematic, since they live next door, and the girls see each other in the front yard all the time and ask to get together right there and then. I'd love to just have her over to our place, or if my daughter goes over to their place I'd like to go over and hang out with whichever parent is around while the girls are playing. But I'm not sure how I'd bring this up, or even to refuse a playdate, without offending the girl's parents.

Yes, it's only been these two incidents. The girls get along well, and seem to play normal games when I've hosted playdates. As much as I try not to be that paranoid, overprotective mom, I've got to say this whole situation has got me a little freaked out. I also get a bit of an off vibe from the family, but it's hard to tell if these are just my prejudices because we live such different lifestyles.

Please listen to your gut, mama.  Those two things would definitely raise red flags for me.  They could be fine....or not.  I'm totally jaded from my line of work, but I have seen a bazillion kids who have been sexually abused, and the whole lover comment with french kissing would wig me out.  When I was a kid, we had some odd neighbors.  We were not allowed to play at their house, but they were always welcome to play at ours--supervised.  It turned out, another neighbor kid (our moms were good friends) was over at that house one day, and dad was watching porn on the TV in front of the kids.  I wouldn't want to totally cut things off, because as long as you are supervising, you should be able to make sure your daughter remains safe, but I definitely would *not* allow my kid to go over there just because I was worried about offending the parents.  Your daughter is too precious to let your worries of offending them supercede your gut feeling that something is not right. 

[Sabrina78]

Originally Posted by tinahiggins 

It kinda surprises me that no one has mentioned that the mom of the other girl might not be the most discreet person in the whole world. Even though I wouldn't even consider having a make-out session in front of my kids or a "girlfriend conversation" on the phone while they were listening, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

That was my first thought; that she's seen Mom and Dad kissing like that, and that Mom has mentioned to someone (perhaps to Dad or to a girlfriend, as tina mentions above) that Dad is a good lover.  I also agree with everyone that it is most likely innocent.  I would keep an eye on things, but I wouldn't stop the children from playing together.

[CarrieMF]

does the girl have older(teenaged) siblings?  If so she could be picking stuff up from them.