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Can you explain to me the rationale of paleo/primal diets? - Page 2

post #21 of 83

 

 

Quote:
Ummmm....think there is actually a lot of scientific evidence to show that eating paleo is better for the human body than grain-filled diets in general. 

 

the exact same can be said against - there are just as many scientists that dispute this as fact

 

simply comes down to real evidence and who's you want to believe

 

 

 

and many so-called grass feed animal do eat a gain/legume diet and so many paleo just disregard this

post #22 of 83

To be truly authentic, one would have to hunt with a spear (many of the animals they hunted are now extinct, btw), gather your own plants and berries and eat a lot of rendered fat. Oh, and after you kill those animals, you would have to slaughter them, cook over a fire, and make use of all the leftovers, just as they did. In addition to that, you would also have to starve during times when food is not so plentiful. No running to the grocery store. Don't forget about lack of sanitary food preparation or cold storage.

 

There is no way to have a truly authentic paleo-diet, unless you can recreate the time period exactly. I think paleo diets are a load of hogwash.

post #23 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by JenniferH View Post

To be truly authentic, one would have to hunt with a spear (many of the animals they hunted are now extinct, btw), gather your own plants and berries and eat a lot of rendered fat. Oh, and after you kill those animals, you would have to slaughter them, cook over a fire, and make use of all the leftovers, just as they did. In addition to that, you would also have to starve during times when food is not so plentiful. No running to the grocery store. Don't forget about lack of sanitary food preparation or cold storage.

 

There is no way to have a truly authentic paleo-diet, unless you can recreate the time period exactly. I think paleo diets are a load of hogwash.

Have you even read about eating primal/paleo?  Many primal/paleo eaters do intermittent fasting. There is also a lot of talk amongst the community about how to cook meats so they are closest to how our primal ancestor would have cooked/ate it. Some even eat raw meat.  By eating primal, you learn to make use of all the animal. Primal/paleo eaters are keen on eating tongue, brain, organ meats, and broth made from the bones of the animal. Eating primal/paleo also means eating local, in season veggies and berries...just like you would if you were gathering. Rendered fats? If you have ever read anything about the diet you would know that fat, especially rendered fat is the star of the show.

Everyone knows that you can't be 100% paleo in the modern world (unless you decide to go live in a cave somewhere). I don't ever remember anyone saying that in any of my readings about the diet either.  The goal is to get it as close a possible for you.  Everyone does it differently of course.
 

 

post #24 of 83

I won't argue evidence, I don't care to, but for those who are skeptical I challenge them to try it a month.  Many that try it continue because the difference they feel is so amazing they won't go back and evidence or history doesn't matter one lick in comparison to that.

post #25 of 83

I haven't read through this whole thread carefully, but I would like to say that I eat a paleo like diet and have seen an amazing resolve of health problems in the past year.. However, the premise behind the paleo diet doesn't make total sense to me, and I actually came to this way of eating through GAPS and SCD diet. Very similar to paleo, but the science behind it makes a lot more sense to me. So maybe you could read up on those to help you figure it out?

HTH!

post #26 of 83

I am mostly just posting to sub, but I went primal a few weeks ago (and have admittedly cheated a bit) but I feel amazing! I can wake up and not drag around for hours, I am now walking miles a day and not out of breathe or having to stop before I arrive at my destination, and I feel full all day long!

 

The last one is huge for me b/c I have always had eating issues and whenever I "diet" I fail b/c I'm starving and start eating everything in site! This is the only diet change I have made where I don't even need 3 meals a day...

 

Admittedly I have found some things odd when relating it all to our ancestors, but I'm just not worried about it. The only reason to limit fruit from what I understand is if you want to lose weight. There is a specific number of carbs you should stay within overall, but under 100grams is for weight loss and 150 (I think) is to maintain. Athletes are also suppose to eat more.

 

Some people I feel do take it to the "extreme" by limiting fruits for their kids and things like that....but I think being vegan is "extreme" too so it all depends on how you look at it. (no offense)

 

I won't limit my kids fruit intake...

post #27 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by crunchy_mama View Post

I won't argue evidence, I don't care to, but for those who are skeptical I challenge them to try it a month.  Many that try it continue because the difference they feel is so amazing they won't go back and evidence or history doesn't matter one lick in comparison to that.



AMEN TO THIS.

 

Sometimes I cannot believe how fantastic I feel.  And my kids are healthy, have great teeth, sleep through the night.  I sleep like a rock, I'm happy, I look freaking fantastic...and I don't even exercise!  Seriously...I'm hot.  :)

 

I was vegetarian for 13 years...part of that time vegan.  And I went to the 2nd largest macrobiotic cooking school in the nation and learned how to cook real foods...I looked and felt terrible and my son was sick all of the time.

 

OP - read Mark's Daily Apple for a few months and try to get your answers there.  He's researched this night and day and has great advice about this diet.

 

I'm one who limits fruits...some of us are just sugar sensitive and cannot eat food that has been cultivated to be sweeter and sweeter over the years.  My kids and I are happy with our berries and occasional low sugar fruit.  We do well with root veggies, though.  We're all different and that's OK!

 

Try the diet.  You won't be sorry!!

 

 

post #28 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by JenniferH View Post

To be truly authentic, one would have to hunt with a spear (many of the animals they hunted are now extinct, btw), gather your own plants and berries and eat a lot of rendered fat. Oh, and after you kill those animals, you would have to slaughter them, cook over a fire, and make use of all the leftovers, just as they did. In addition to that, you would also have to starve during times when food is not so plentiful. No running to the grocery store. Don't forget about lack of sanitary food preparation or cold storage.

 

There is no way to have a truly authentic paleo-diet, unless you can recreate the time period exactly. I think paleo diets are a load of hogwash.

 

But I think you are missing the point.  It's not about recreating the early man's experience, but eating as close as possible to his original diet in our modern day times.  And to be fair, you could eat your meat raw.  People still do...ever heard of sushi?

 

If you want to play the "recreating" game, however, let's go there.  Let's say you are void of all modern day conveniences, that the economy collapsed or there was a major catastrophic event and we were suddenly left without electricity.  The streets were gridlocked, so no going to the grocery store.  What would you do?  I personally would look for the most nutrient dense and satisfying food for my family, one that was easy to acquire and easy to prepare.  That would be a fish or a rabbit or some other animal nearby.  The kids and I would forage for some berries and maybe some large nuts and definitely dig up some roots.  My husband would go for a large kill (bear, deer) and we would learn to hang it and dry it...and would spare no parts.  We would eat or make use of the organs, bones or skin.  I wouldn't have time to pick little grains of wheat or legumes and make bread or a pot of beans.  That would take too much time and energy for what it is worth.

 

So, sure, we know that grains, beans, etc. were around when early nomadic man was roaming the earth, but did the majority of his diet (or any of his diet - I wouldn't waste my time collecting seeds or grains) consist of those foods?  Or are theses foods a modern day convenience that we have processed to death and genetically modified that we can no longer digest them?  Maybe we could eat them at one point (another caveat) but do we have enough gut flora (living in our sterile environments) to eat them now?  Are they even real foods anymore?  Can you find non-GMO wheat, corn or soy in the USA? 

 

Lots to think about.  But go back to this: try it and see if you like it.  If not, find what is best for you and keep rollin'.
 

 

post #29 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzukiaustin View Post

But I think you are missing the point.  It's not about recreating the early man's experience, but eating as close as possible to his original diet in our modern day times.  And to be fair, you could eat your meat raw.  People still do...ever heard of sushi?

 

If you want to play the "recreating" game, however, let's go there.  Let's say you are void of all modern day conveniences, that the economy collapsed or there was a major catastrophic event and we were suddenly left without electricity.  The streets were gridlocked, so no going to the grocery store.  What would you do?  I personally would look for the most nutrient dense and satisfying food for my family, one that was easy to acquire and easy to prepare.  That would be a fish or a rabbit or some other animal nearby.  The kids and I would forage for some berries and maybe some large nuts and definitely dig up some roots.  My husband would go for a large kill (bear, deer) and we would learn to hang it and dry it...and would spare no parts.  We would eat or make use of the organs, bones or skin.  I wouldn't have time to pick little grains of wheat or legumes and make bread or a pot of beans.  That would take too much time and energy for what it is worth.

 

So, sure, we know that grains, beans, etc. were around when early nomadic man was roaming the earth, but did the majority of his diet (or any of his diet - I wouldn't waste my time collecting seeds or grains) consist of those foods?  Or are theses foods a modern day convenience that we have processed to death and genetically modified that we can no longer digest them?  Maybe we could eat them at one point (another caveat) but do we have enough gut flora (living in our sterile environments) to eat them now?  Are they even real foods anymore?  Can you find non-GMO wheat, corn or soy in the USA? 

 

Lots to think about.  But go back to this: try it and see if you like it.  If not, find what is best for you and keep rollin'.
 

 


And then, when all the nutrient-dense prey in your area was hunted out, what would you do?  

 

Because, in the end, right now we don't have the resources to feed 6 billion people a paleo diet.   It's one of the reasons for the paleo-neo transition.  A very small group of paleolithic hunters killed most of the megafauna on two continents in a matter of centuries after their arrival.  And then domesticated corn, beans, potatoes and squash.   Hm.

 

post #30 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by savithny View Post




And then, when all the nutrient-dense prey in your area was hunted out, what would you do?  

 

Because, in the end, right now we don't have the resources to feed 6 billion people a paleo diet.   It's one of the reasons for the paleo-neo transition.  A very small group of paleolithic hunters killed most of the megafauna on two continents in a matter of centuries after their arrival.  And then domesticated corn, beans, potatoes and squash.   Hm.

 


Then I eat you.  :)

 

The question isn't if the paleo diet is sustainable.  We know it isn't with the population we have now.  Maybe start a thread asking if this diet is sustainable for our current population.  I really don't care if it is.  I feel good, I look good, my kids are healthy and that's all that matters to me.  Sorry to be so blunt.

 

post #31 of 83
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzukiaustin View Post



 

But I think you are missing the point.  It's not about recreating the early man's experience, but eating as close as possible to his original diet in our modern day times.  And to be fair, you could eat your meat raw.  People still do...ever heard of sushi?

 

If you want to play the "recreating" game, however, let's go there.  Let's say you are void of all modern day conveniences, that the economy collapsed or there was a major catastrophic event and we were suddenly left without electricity.  The streets were gridlocked, so no going to the grocery store.  What would you do?  I personally would look for the most nutrient dense and satisfying food for my family, one that was easy to acquire and easy to prepare.  That would be a fish or a rabbit or some other animal nearby.  The kids and I would forage for some berries and maybe some large nuts and definitely dig up some roots.  My husband would go for a large kill (bear, deer) and we would learn to hang it and dry it...and would spare no parts.  We would eat or make use of the organs, bones or skin.  I wouldn't have time to pick little grains of wheat or legumes and make bread or a pot of beans.  That would take too much time and energy for what it is worth.

 

So, sure, we know that grains, beans, etc. were around when early nomadic man was roaming the earth, but did the majority of his diet (or any of his diet - I wouldn't waste my time collecting seeds or grains) consist of those foods?  Or are theses foods a modern day convenience that we have processed to death and genetically modified that we can no longer digest them?  Maybe we could eat them at one point (another caveat) but do we have enough gut flora (living in our sterile environments) to eat them now?  Are they even real foods anymore?  Can you find non-GMO wheat, corn or soy in the USA? 

 

Lots to think about.  But go back to this: try it and see if you like it.  If not, find what is best for you and keep rollin'.
 

 


You have a good point. But lets say, for example, where I live, there are no large animals. The only animals in my area are lizards, occasional birds, mice, and cats, and something else in the rabbit family. No fishing in our area as there's no bodies of water nearby. So all we'd have to eat really are wild fruits, veggies, nuts, and wild grains and legumes. Because there isn't always so many meat sources available in an area. And I'm sure it was like that with the Paleolithic people. Which is why they probably eat grains. Because grains are filling. I may be able to get tons of nutrients from some edible weeds near me (some of them are the most nutrient dense foods of everything around), but they're simply not filling and if I'd eat that and the very little game available in my area, I'd be hungry. And probably malnourished because of not enough calories. So I probably would pick wild grains and legumes to supplement my diet. Have you ever picked wild grains? I actually have. Its not so crazy or as time consuming as you might think.

 

post #32 of 83

 

 

thumb.gif   ahhhhhhhh the advent of beer and wine--------a reason to domesticate and settle down and collect seeds, grow and consume! 

 

there are those historians who feel beer is older than wine----fermented beef just didn't cut it---------CHEERS!

post #33 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by PennyP View Post




You have a good point. But lets say, for example, where I live, there are no large animals. The only animals in my area are lizards, occasional birds, mice, and cats, and something else in the rabbit family. No fishing in our area as there's no bodies of water nearby. So all we'd have to eat really are wild fruits, veggies, nuts, and wild grains and legumes. Because there isn't always so many meat sources available in an area. And I'm sure it was like that with the Paleolithic people. Which is why they probably eat grains. Because grains are filling. I may be able to get tons of nutrients from some edible weeds near me (some of them are the most nutrient dense foods of everything around), but they're simply not filling and if I'd eat that and the very little game available in my area, I'd be hungry. And probably malnourished because of not enough calories. So I probably would pick wild grains and legumes to supplement my diet. Have you ever picked wild grains? I actually have. Its not so crazy or as time consuming as you might think.

 


This is actually key to remember.

 

Human beings have adapted to almost every ecological niche on the planet.   We are incredibly adaptable, and one big part of that is diet.   As omnivores, as we moved out of Africa to fill almost all the continents, we encountered everything from plains full of big game to islands with little game at all.    And we adapted.   

 

I've read anthropology/archaelogy papers on the subject of the wild ancestors of wheat.   It was actually relatively easy to walk across a stand of it and come up with a lot of food that you could take home and save for later.  Easy enough that people in the fertile crescent at that time actually settled down in sedentary villages *before* domesticating anythiing.   They had antelope, grains, lots of greens, and fruit and nut trees.   The area was actually, when you read the descriptions of the foods available, "Edenic," and you can see how the memories of that time may well have given rise to the myths (across multiple cultures from the area) of a golden age of plenty.   

 

Of course, then climate change (the Younger Dryas) came along and messed it all up.   But it sounds nice while it lasted.

 

(My point above, about sustainability, was simply this:   While some of us enjoy such a diet and benefit from it, in the end we have to accept its impossible for every human currently existing to eat that diet, without something happening to kill a large percentage of us.)

 

post #34 of 83

Well you could say the same about processed foods. If you eat all whole foods your not very sustainable. If you fill up on twinkies and other crap foods that have a lot of man made chemical type of ingredients I suppose that would be more sustainable. The US makes TONS of non nutrient filler foods and tons of people eat them everyday...doesn't make it good for anyone.

post #35 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by sosurreal09 View Post

Well you could say the same about processed foods. If you eat all whole foods your not very sustainable. If you fill up on twinkies and other crap foods that have a lot of man made chemical type of ingredients I suppose that would be more sustainable. The US makes TONS of non nutrient filler foods and tons of people eat them everyday...doesn't make it good for anyone.



Well, yeah, you could say the same about processed foods.  

 

I'm not one of those "We all have to be vegan to save the planet" people.  I actually do believe that humans do best on a diet that includes animal products, and that an all-grain diet is not generally optimal.   

 

I just find the arguments of many paleo/primal writers -- that there must be ONE OPTIMAL WAY OF EATING for all human beings -- to be inaccurate, and often misleading.   When people managed to fill almost every corner of the globe eating what those corners had to offer, it's clear that there are many perfectly acceptable human diets, many of which are very different from the ones touted by Primal Experts.    Given the genetics of the whole thing (look at maps of lactose tolerance genes overlaid with dairy cattle domestication sites, for example), it's also quite likely that something that is "optimal" for someone whose ancestors were Plains Indians might not be "optimal" for someone whose ancestors came from the mountains of the Caucasus, the fjords of Scandinavia, and the jungles of New Guinea.

 

 

post #36 of 83

Right and I'm no expert, but I think it's one of those things that you try out and see if it works for you. I totally love the idea to eat what YOUR ancestors ate. My father was adopted and I have no idea what "I'm made of" so I can't do that one...

 

MDA does state though that if you really go through all the trouble of sprouting/soaking or fermenting wheat for consumption it's not bad for you. It's just a lot of work to make them edible and not a ton of nutrients. Also that legumes are like the less evil on the hierarchy of carbs than wheat.

post #37 of 83

I know this was touched on somewhere, but do paleo/primal diets include dairy? i assume if they did they would want raw, local milk, better if you had your own animal i suppose. But did domestic animals exist very long before agriculture? I have not looked into this at all and am curious is anyone knows. I like the idea of the diet but would find it very hard to give up dairy!

post #38 of 83

On the theme of eating what your ancestors ate.... did you know that ethnic Chinese and nearby ethnicities have developed larger than average saliva glands to help digest the large amount of rice they have consumed?

post #39 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by mommy212 View Post

I know this was touched on somewhere, but do paleo/primal diets include dairy? i assume if they did they would want raw, local milk, better if you had your own animal i suppose. But did domestic animals exist very long before agriculture? I have not looked into this at all and am curious is anyone knows. I like the idea of the diet but would find it very hard to give up dairy!


Dairy animals (cows, sheep, goats) were domesticated after grains and after meat animals, almost certainly.   Animals were domesticated for meat before dairy - in most cases there's no sign of milk use until a thousand or more years after the animals are clearly the domestic types.

 

post #40 of 83

Yeah paleo dairy is a NO. Primal dairy is an OK but not ideal and should be limited.

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