Kefir questions

[es1967]

Just started making Kefir last week and have a few questions.  I think I have read this somewhere that you should stick to one type of milk?  Is that right?  Right now I am using local pasteurized, grass fed, no RBST milk. I started using Natural by Nature organic but then the store ran out.   So last week I found a source for raw milk.

My kefir finally yesterday turned out really good.  It was less yeasty smelling.  I think it may be b/c I started only making one cup and reduced the amount of grains to 1 tbls.  Not sure.

So anyways, I hate to change the milk now and waste raw milk trying the get it right again.

The other problem is that if I run out of raw milk I will not be able to get right away and will have to use another.  So is it better to stick to one kind?

The extra grains I have been eating and giving some to the dog.  I'm planning on giving them to friends but how do I store them? In the fridge with how much milk?  Is it okay for them to stay a week or so in the fridge b/f I give them to someone?

Thanks

[PennyP]

You can store them in sugar water in the fridge. The sugar water becomes a kefir soda, and is a probiotic drink. Its rather yummy.

Don't know about switching the milk though- I was using my grains successfully with powdered skim milk (after quite a few runny batches), but then let them use regular whole milk, and then let them go with the sugar water... and now that I started with powdered milk again, they're not really thickening nicely, but I'm sure they will in time...

[babywearer_anon]

I'm having kefir problems!   I've been making Kefir water with great results for about 6 months.

then a friend just gave me some milk kefir grains to try.  I put about 2 tbsp in about 2 cups of milk.

i left it for 24 hrs on the counter. Nothing happened. I waited another day just in case the cooler temp of my house was the problem.

but all i ended up with was awful sour milk. so i flushed it all down the toilet!

I hesitate to try again because milk is expensive and I don't want to waste it!

I still have some of her grains left (they were stored in sugar water for about 2 weeks now).  SHould i try again with these grains or get some others?

thx.

[es1967]

I am no Kefir expert but I heard that if the grains were not used for a while it may take several batches to come out right.  When I first got my grains last week -the first batch was horrible-threw it away, 2nd batch smelled very yeasty, 3rd batch better and the 4th and 5th was great.  Also, I read that they should always be stored in milk.  Thats just what I have read and I also listened to a radio interview online with the Kefir lady which was very helpful.  I live in florida and the temp is 78 in my place. The kefir lady says to smell it at 24 hours, taste it and go from there. 

I know what you mean about wasting milk.  I cut my qty down to only doing 8 oz every time now and even that is too much for us. 

[JMJ]

I have switched milk back and forth a lot, and that's not a problem. You can even use coconut milk as long as you put the grains back in mammal milk often. I would rest them in the fridge by covering them in milk rather than sugar water if it's going to be very long at all. Milk kefir grains can be converted to water kefir grains but not back, so if you leave them in sugar water too long, you might not have MKG anymore. If they've been in the fridge a while, they may take a bit to start making good kefir. Put the grains in a smaller amount of milk and change it every day until it's making kefir, and then start increasing the milk.

[rhianna813]

I have a kefir question too :-)

When can I share my kefir grains? I got some a few months ago and now it’s one large glob that fills a half pint jar. How much do I need and how much can I share with a friend or 2? Can I just cut it into smaller portions?

What is optimal amount of grains to use with say 2 - 3 cups of milk?

Thanks,

Rhianna

[JMJ]

Rhianna, is your glob just the kefir grains, or is it over-cultured kefir?  If it looks like it's all one glob, you may want to try straining it, and if that is too difficult, try resting the mixture in water on the counter overnight.  Usually, you would use about 1 T per cup of milk, and you can give it away as long as you keep at least a T. 

[es1967]

Originally Posted by JMJ 

Rhianna, is your glob just the kefir grains, or is it over-cultured kefir?  If it looks like it's all one glob, you may want to try straining it, and if that is too difficult, try resting the mixture in water on the counter overnight.  Usually, you would use about 1 T per cup of milk, and you can give it away as long as you keep at least a T. 

JMJ thanks for giving us all this info.    So the minimum is 1 tablespoon? Have you ever made Kefir in a room that stays 78 degrees?

I've been letting my kefir go for 24 hours and its quite tart.  Today I tried it about 6 hrs earlier and it seemed almost mild.  Then tonight

it seemed very tart.  Is that possible?  Also, do you know if it is true that if you add honey it kills the probiotic benefits?  Today I tried Stevia

but it always has that after taste.  I'd like to use the honey for my son but don't want to kill the probiotic benefits.  One more thing- do you find a

big taste difference using raw milk vs pasteurized?  Thanks again for helping us newbies.

[es1967]

A few days ago I posted a question on the Yahoo Kefir site about using 1 teaspoon of kefir and someone replied saying this:

"I only use a teaspoon of grains to a quart of whole organic milk and it kefirs in about 14-16 hours" 

Wow, that is alot of milk for 1 teaspoon of Kefir?  What do these people do with all this Kefir!

[JMJ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by es1967 JMJ thanks for giving us all this info.    So the minimum is 1 tablespoon?

I don't know exactly what the minimum is, but there is one.  1 T is definitely enough.

 Have you ever made Kefir in a room that stays 78 degrees?

Yes, my house is often 78 degrees or more.  Culturing happens faster than it would if your house was cooler, but there is not a problem until you are consistently over 90 degrees or so.

I've been letting my kefir go for 24 hours and its quite tart.  Today I tried it about 6 hrs earlier and it seemed almost mild.  Then tonightit seemed very tart.  Is that possible?

Yes, you may want to experiment with the taste that you like.  I like a tart kefir, and my body does not tolerate lactose well, so I tend to allow mine to ripen more than a lot of people like.  The 1:8 ratio is the recommended starting ratio, and 24 hours is the recommended starting time frame, but if you want it sweeter or your house is too hot, you can increase the amount of milk or reduce the amount of time.  If you want it more sour, you can bottle your kefir and then let it sit on the counter for another day.

Also, do you know if it is true that if you add honey it kills the probiotic benefits?  Today I tried Stevia but it always has that after taste.  I'd like to use the honey for my son but don't want to kill the probiotic benefits. 

Raw honey does have some antimicrobial properties, but I wouldn't say it is strong enough to "kill" the kefir cultures.  I wouldn't sweeten kefir with honey and store it that way, but I don't see a problem with putting some honey into your kefir and then drinking it.  Fruit is also a common method of sweetening kefir.  Just go easy on whatever sweetener you use, including stevia.

One more thing- do you find a big taste difference using raw milk vs pasteurized?  Thanks again for helping us newbies.

I don't have access to a safe raw milk supplier right now, so I am using pasteurized but non-homogenized milk.  Since it is not raw, it is all the more important to culture it.  I notice a significant taste and texture difference between cow and goat milk.  I kinda prefer the smoother, less clumpy texture of the goat milk, but my goat milk supplier refuses to allow his goats access to pasture, so I generally go with the largely grass-fed cow milk.  The taste of this milk varies some by season as the composition of the cows diets change.

[es1967]

Thanks JMJ- you are awesome.  Its hard when you start something new and you have no one to talk to about it.  So when you make your kefir do you let it go beyond 24 hrs? What do you store your already made Kefir in?  I seem to have all these glass jars in my refrigerator with Kefir from the past week.  Last night I mixed up one of them w a little Vanilla and Stevia and it was delicious on my Muesli this morning.  My son also gobbled up a bowl of it while I was making it. 

My other hesitation w using raw milk is the higher calorie/fat content.  SO I'm still deciding what to do.

[rhianna813]

These are all great questions and answers! I am appreciating this thread :-)

I had not heard of over cultured kefir, but I just for mine in June from a friend. my kefir looks like a gelatenous "brain" like thingy. I strain it through a wooden spoon when I make the kefir and put it in a small jar with some new milk to store. I have been storing it for a week or so in between batches. This last time I made the kefir I rinsed the grain with water and noticed the one large piece and 2 really small peices. I split the large piece in half where there was just a small membrane.

I think I will break it apart further and pass the pieces along to my local WAPF list. I know people have been asking.

I culture my kefir for 48 hours to get the tart flavour I like. My house tends to run cool.

Rhianna

[rhianna813]

I found this Kefir troubleshooting FAQ online that answers many questions about temperature, storing, over culturing, etc.... Specifically for milk kefir.

http://www.culturesforhealth.com/milk-kefir-grains-troubleshooting-FAQ-advice

Rhianna

[JMJ]

I don't usually leave my kefir going for more than 24 hours (though if I get too busy and let it go longer, I'm not afraid to drink it).  It gets difficult to strain as the kefir cheese gets stuck to the kefir grains, what I suspect might have happened to Rhianna above.  Kefir can be ripened by straining it and then leaving it in a jar at room temperature to continue to ferment.  This reduces the lactose and increases the folate content.  I usually store it in saved apple cider vinegar jars that are glass jars with plastic lids.

As to the higher calorie/fat content, I would consider shifting your perspective from trying to be low calorie and low fat from trying to make your calories count with nutrient rich foods.  Milk from animals raised on pasture contain about equal amounts of omega-3's and omega-6's while grain-fed animals will have almost no omega-3's.  Animals raised on pasture will make milk very high in Vitamins A, D, and K2, fat soluble vitamins that you cannot get without dietary fat.  (You can get Vitamin D from the sun, but only if you have adequate dietary fat.  I honestly believe that in addition to not going out into the sun enough, a major cause of our nation's Vitamin D deficiency is the fact that we are all expected to eat low fat.)  The short-chain saturated fats in milk increase your metabolism so that you have more energy and can eat more calories without gaining weight, and the fats in raw milk are undamaged by pasteurization and homogenization.  (I believe that a major cause of heart disease is not fat in general but damaged fat and damaged cholesterol.)  Speaking of damaged cholesterol, most low-fat supermarket milk is usually made by mixing whole milk with spray dried skim milk that contains damaged cholesterol.  Some supermarket skim milk is completely spray-dried and reconstituted.

Additionally, reduced fat milk is not a whole food.  The fat helps your body to assimilate the nutrients from the milk, and taking away the fat increases the ratio of proteins and sugars in the milk, increasing the glycemic index and contributing to insulin resistance, a major cause of Type II Diabetes as well as a whole host of other degenerative diseases.  I would certainly consider raw milk from grassfed animals, from a farm that uses safe practices to be an extremely nutrient-rich and healthful whole food, fat and all.

[rhianna813]

Originally Posted by JMJ 

Kefir can be ripened by straining it and then leaving it in a jar at room temperature to continue to ferment.  This reduces the lactose and increases the folate content.  I usually store it in saved apple cider vinegar jars that are glass jars with plastic lids.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh... am I understanding you correctly? I can sit the jar with milk and kefir grains on the counter for up to 24 hours, then strain out the grains and continue to ferment the kefir on the counter until it ripens to the flavour I like? What I am noticing now is that at 24 hours the milk is thickened but still has that mild yeasty smell/taste. I like a tarter yogurt flavour. Do you think if I use a much smaller amount of kefir grains my kefir will ripen sooner?

I have been storing mine in a glass jar with plastic wrap for a lid. Avoiding all metals in the whole process.

Rhianna

[es1967]

Someone told me about this site.  I found alot of great info on there.

http://www.yemoos.com/faqmmain.html 

I did read on numerous sites that the kefir is supposed to have a yeasty smell.  It seems mine smells more yeasty the more grains I have.

On the yahoo site they talk about putting the grains in yogurt for several days to get them balanced again if they are overactive.

The yemoos site and others I have read that it can have an effervescent taste.  Mine is not like that at all.   Does that happen due to

having a tighter lid on the Kefir when making it?  I have been using these paper basket coffee filters fastened with w rubber band as a top b/c I thought you were supposed to let it breathe.   I know it sounds weird but I think I got the idea from someone else.

Also, read about someone on this mothering site who only makes Kefir once a week( WuWei I believe).  From what I understand she makes the kefir and stores it in the refrigerator with the grains. I meant to PM her and ask her about it.  I thought after removing the grains from the refrigerator that it takes a while to get back making good kefir again? 

I wonder if its ok to combine Kefir made on different days?  Right now I think I have 5 jars half full.

[JMJ]

Rhianna, I would think that it would ripen faster with more kefir grains, but yes, I would strain it off after a day and then let it ripen.  By 24 hours, it's going to be cultured enough for food safety to continue to leave it out by itself.  I'm quite interested in you blob of kefir grains.  Usually, they break apart more than that.  If you feel like posting pics, I would love to see them.

Fizziness comes from a tight lid.  You can culture it with or without a lid (though do use some sort of cover), or you can cap it and let it get fizzy while it ripens.  I'm not sure how often WuWei makes kefir, but I believe she only makes water kefir, which has a longer fermentation time.  When I was considering making kefir, I asked about possibly making it once a week or something like that and was told that it wasn't a good idea.  I still do a fair bit of putting mine in the fridge.  I try to make several batches of kefir in a row while it is out of the fridge, and after a week in the fridge, it doesn't take too long to perk right back up.  I haven't done any long term storage in the fridge.  I'll usually do it if I'm leaving town or if I run out of milk and don't have time to run to the store for a few days.  Recently, my grains have seen more of the fridge as well as more days in a row on the counter without changing out the milk because I'm pregnant and exhausted, and it's just one more thing that doesn't get done.  They're really pretty resilient little creatures.

There's no problem with combining multiple days.  Traditionally, kefir was kept at room temperature, and each day, some was taken out and used, and the new kefir was added.  When I get a lot, I strain off a lot of the whey from extra batches and eat the kefir cheese as "yogurt" (I don't keep a separate yogurt culture) sweetened with honey or fresh fruit.

A really great website is Dom's kefir site.  Dom is pretty much the internet kefir guru.  I learned a lot of what I know from him.  It's a lot of information.  You could spend days just reading all the different links.

[es1967]

Thanks.  I was just reading the "Got kefir" thread and your right I think she does do water kefir.  Tonight when I strained my Kefir I put some extra grains in a jar w milk in the refrigerator b/c I am going to give some to a friend on Saturday.  I probably should have kept them all together but I just have way too much

Kefir already!  I feel like these Kefir grains are kinda like family members now and feel guilty putting them in the refrigerator.  LOL

Okay, I'm going to stop asking questions now.  Off to bed.

[babywearer_anon]

Thanks for all the info!

I'm going to try again with my milk kefir grains (I think they are just weakened from sitting so long in kefir water...).  I'm going to just put a couple of Tbsp in about a cup of milk (cheaper milk than I usually buy!), and then change the milk every 24 hours. I'm hoping this will bring them back to life :)   (This is what I gathered from reading the Yeemos site).

I'm still sad about having to waste milk to get them going again though....

[babywearer_anon]

By the way, on the Yeemos site they recommend putting kefir grains in the blender if they are clumped together or if they are old and crusted (!).  

They said it increases the surface area of the grains and makes them work better.