I am so fed up with ICAN

[Lisa1970]

I am so fed up with ICAN, at least our local group. Any time I try to post something, a question, unless it is happy dappy ville, like if I have a real concern, I get told I need to be grateful or accused of being negative. I had problems with 1 office staff member at the OB office, but then was accused of complaining about the OB and was chewed out through a series of emails and even sent a "warning" from the admin that I cannot say bad things about that doctor. I never even said a bad thing about that doctor. I said it about his office staff person. And his office staff person told me there was no one on call for the OB when I was 26 weeks and having stabbing back pain and a head ache. So she said there was no one to see me when the OB was out of town. I even said IF the OB left no one on call and went out of town with no doctor to see his patients, then what would be abandonment and that I had already spoken to the OB before he left and he assured me he would have someone on call so I did not believe that office staff member. Yet, the stupid people on the group chewed me out for daring saying that about the OB. I never said anything bad about the OB. I said it about the office staff member and what I said was true! Not one person said "call XYZ" and they will help you. I ended up searching online and finding the main office to the OB office and complaining to them and they found out who was oncall and got me in with her. But the actual ican group was basically attacking me for asking for help.

Well, now I am a month from my due date. I found out 2 weeks ago the OB is going to be out of town the last 2 weeks leading in to my due date, returning 3 days before my due date. I wanted to ask about the oncall doctors there, as I know 2 of the 3 oncall doctors do not support vbamc. Instead, I only get responses from people who have just had 1 csect acting like they were chastising me for even suggesting one of his oncall doctors might not support vbamc. Whatever. I then had an appointment with the OB again and he (he is very nice and I like him) acknowledged that 2 of the 3 OBs he has backing him up do not support vbamc, so he is going to make sure that the 3rd OB takes my call when I go in to labor. Fine.

But then, I had to go up to labor and delivery on Sunday because my BP was high. The room I got was horrible. It was very small. It had a bed in it, two trash can type things, and a broken chair with the pieces to the chair sitting on it. I think it is ridiculous that they knew the chair was defective, but chose to not remove it from the room. My dh had no place to sit. There clearly would not be room for a doula or anyone else in there. Whomever stayed in the room as labor support would have to remain standing the entire duration. There was not even a rolling doctors chair. I guess they would bring that in later? I am guessing not very many women make it to the vbac from that room so they probably do not need one. I am saying that because they apparently have a policy that all women have to lay flat on their back, not moving the entire time, on monitors. You cannot even roll to your side. The bed was as hard as rock. If I moved, they would come in the room and make me get back in to position. I finally sat up because I was in so much pain. The bed was also as hard as rock. Some nurse who I never met before came in and basically chewed me out for moving. I was informed "this is a labor bed and when you are in labor, you WILL lay here, and you WILL keep the monitors in place and you will NOT move!" I told her but the OB said I only had to stay on for 20 minutes and then I was free to move if there were no problems. She said no, hospital policy says all laboring women from when they arrive until after the baby is born have to lay in the bed, holding still, on the monitors, the entire time.  By this point, I was crying. She was trying to make me get back in to position. I told her I had to go to the bathroom anyway. I was not even in labor but was in pain from being in that position for two hours.

So...I asked the doctor about it and he signed my birth plan to say I can be up and moving around. He said he expects his laboring patients to be up and moving around. But then later, after I left, I wondered ....he is not likely going to be in town when I give birth. HE may want the patients moving around...but what happens when he is out of town? I have not been posting on the ican board because of how unsupportive they are. But, when I was looking at the ican board, someone was posting how great the rooms looked and they had been recently renovated. I then went ahead and posted about how awful the room was that I got on Sunday. Of course, I was told to be grateful. That it is a hospital. Pretty doesn't matter, etc etc etc. OK...pretty may not matter, but functional certain does. How can anyone have a vbac, flat on their back for hours on end, with no labor support because there is not really room for them...and no chairs for the labor support? And heck..where does the doctor go when he needs to catch the baby. There was maybe 5 feet, at most, from the end of the bed to the wall. And the trash cans were against that wall so there was even less clearance. I guess they would shift things around and move the trash cans out of the way...in to the hall or something? What if they need to throw something away? I just do not get it. But of course..I am just ungrateful and should be grateful that someone is willing to allow me to not be chopped open for another csect.

Just because the bar is sooo low, doesn't mean I NEED to be grateful for a nugget I might eventually get thrown! 

MY question was..that did not get answered...by anyone on the ican group...was...when the nurse "informs" you of hospital policy that goes against what your doctor said, what do you do? And what goes? What the doctor said...or what the "policy" says? And since my OB won't be around, what will happen? But nope. No one can help, they are too busy chastising me.

I have been spending much of the day crying over this. I think I have to give up on my vbac. I just cannot see it happening.

[rebirth]

I couldn't read this and not reply! I wanted to let you know I'll be sending you love and light! I think the way the ICAN list has been reacting to your posts is horrible, and so sad. Do you have a doula? I think finding a doula with lots of VBAC expereince would be so good for you. Spending as much of labor at home (which a doula can help with) is invaluable. I try to (when that is their desire) get my VBAC doula clients to the hospital near 2nd stage.

[AlexisT]

You were probably not in an LDR, you were put into triage/monitoring. I've been in there and the rooms are tiny. They don't put anyone in an LDR until they're in active labor.

And in my hospital, triage is in the same unit as the real LDRs, on the same hall. You can tell the difference immediately though: Tiny bed squashed against the wall, one chair, about enough room for the doctor to assess you. LDRs need to have enough room for you, support person, OB, nurse (2 if there's a problem), neonatologist if needed, bassinet... it's MUCH bigger. Has to be. No way could you deliver a baby in triage. For utilization reasons, you won't be put in an LDR until they know you're going to deliver. If you're being monitored or they're deciding whether you're in labor, they stick you in triage rather than waste a bed.

[Lisa1970]

That explains that! The door said LDR 4 so...I thought it was LDR, and there was a room called triage across the hall. But, this was where the triage room was, not over where the rest of the LDR rooms are.

[WaitingForKiddos]

Oh gosh mama....

I agree that you weren't in a labor room. The room you are describing is EXACTLY like the room my (failed) external version took place in. Tiny, trashy, crappy bed, no place Id want to lay in much less give birth in. The actual labor room was much better!!! You can request to see the labor rooms and the postpartum rooms! Give the hospital a call and take a tour, it might calm your nerves.

About the bitch nurse. Next time, request a new nurse. It's completly within your rights as a patient! She obviously didn't enjoy caring for you so she might have been as relieved as you would have been to have someone else care for you. You have this right any time you are in the hospital. Generally, there's always someone else that can step in unless it's someone who is on call and came in for your care. 'Hospital policy' actually is at the bottom of the totem pole of what goes. Your demands, within reason that wont harm you/baby, come first, then comes your doctor's desires, then comes the nurses wishes, then comes hospital policy, which generally is what your doctor and nurses are intrepetering in their actions. My hospital has policy to do all sorts of things to newborns (from a bath, vaccinations, Vit K, and observation) I wrote a birth plan saying 'no thank you' to those things, had DH on board to make sure the plan was followed, and then simply handed the nursed the birth plan upon going to the L&D floor (planned cesarean but I went into labor the evening before). I also had to go against policy and demand MY doctor preformed the cesarean. This was 'not hospital policy' as I was admitted as a woman in labor, not a scheduled cesarean. I just said, "no, you need to call my doctor." The nurse complained to herself but did call my OB. During the hospital stay there were a few more times that 'hospital policy' up....how much drugs I was to be given post op (I wanted 1/4 of what they wanted to give me), how often they were to be given, then later on with baby care. I was easy to say what I wanted/needed to happen when I had  supportative DH with me. I can imagine that had I been alone it may have been harder.

I'm sad to hear ICAN is being like this to you.

[LisaSedai]

I'm sorry your ICANers misunderstood where you were coming from and gave you such a hassle. Despite being there to support each other no matter what Dr or provider one chooses, we can get overprotective of "our" VBAC docs. When you only have one or two in town (or in my case NONE) who will work with VBAC moms, docs who do can achieve a hero status in some respects.

And that nurse you had in triage... wow. Some nurses are very "by the book" and some nurses are laid back. You might want to specify in your birth plan that you would prefer working with a nurse who supports natural birth (yes, there are a few out there) and who is used to taking care of VBACs/your OB's patients. Absolutely as another poster said, you can request to switch nurses if you aren't getting along with the one you are assigned to. As far as 'Hospital Policy" goes, pffffft. Smile nicely and say "my OB said I could stay off the monitor other than 20 minutes an hour". She tries to argue with you about it tell her you are aware of the risks and you still say NO THANKS, go ahead and chart that I refused this. The hospital can not force you to do things against your will (without a court order anyways) but they can have staff people hassle you about it and try to scare you (if you don't stay hooked up to this monitor your uterus can rupture and your baby will die!) but laying a hand on you without your consent is assault - or battery... can't remember which.

Having a doula can really help. The nurses may just leave you alone if you have a doula.

Sucks that your OB is going out of town near your due date but it is good that he is arranging for a solid back up for you and not the ones who are scared of VBAMC's.

Hang in there, you can do this! {{{hugs}}}

[justKate]

Oh mama, I'm so sorry.  The ICAN experience sounds majorly stressful.  I'm sort of frustrated with my local ICAN too, but for logistical reasons....

I think you really need to talk to your OB about your concerns.  I think they're valid, especially after being told about "hospital policy" by the mean nurse....that is scary to me.  Please keep us posted. 

[cairomama]

It sounds like this doctor is beloved and has helped many people when no one else would and therefore, people on the board are being over-protective of him and his staff. ICAN is a wonderful resource for many people, but at this point, your local chapter is not helping you. My advice is to disengage. 

I had a very positive c-section for breech. Afterwards, I went to an ICAN meeting to support a friend who had a traumatizing failed induction, cascade of interventions c-section. After listening to so many stories of traumatizing c-sections where doctors lied and bullied moms, I felt ready to schedule another c-section and I wasn't even pregnant.  When I got pregnant again, I did not go to ICAN meetings because it was not right for me or helping me with my preparation. I did go back after my successful ECV and subsequent successful VBAC. However, now I am pregnant with baby#3 and I may go to some meetings, but I deliberately chose to skip this month's meeting "Dealing with Unexpected Outcomes" because that is not where I am at. After I give birth, I will go and tell my story and work to support others, but in my pregnancy, I think I need distance from it. Everyone is different and the organization is trying to meet the needs of many people. If they aren't meeting your needs right now, then find another source of support.

Like the other posters, I believe you were in an NST/Triage room, not the actual Labor & Delivery Room. Even so, I am a doula, and if I have to stand for hours to support my mom during her birth, I will. Your doula can also grab a nurse to find a chair. Have faith in your doula and trust her to handle those matters.

It sounds like you are nervous about this birth, especially because your primary doctor will not be there. Program the back-up's info into your phone, the one that is VBAMC supportive so that you can call him or his service directly when time comes. You do not have to comply with hospital policies. You do need to be strong because they will try to scare you, but stand your ground.

I think you want reassurance and your local chapter is not giving it to you in the way you want it. You can do this. You need to decide that you ARE going to do it and don't let anything or anyone stop you. Just think in your mind that you may end up with a back-up doc and unfriendly nurses, but that you can deal with that. Baby might be early and then you will have your regular doc, you never know.

Wishing you a peaceful birth!