HOW did you night wean?

[kfillmore]

Let me start by saying that I don't want to wean but after almost 21/2 years of very interrupted sleep I am ready to think about it. Another thing to say is that DD LOVES to nurse. She nurses a fair amount. She even talks about it-about things nursing such as a small and large carrot, "mommy, baby, get milk" She talks about other kids getting milk. When I told her recently that we may need to just cuddle in the middle of the night instead of nursing she said "I need milk"

Also, when she wakes up at night it is not to quietly roll over to me and nurse. She sits up and usually cries and says "mommy". I don't know if she is just awake or had dreams or what. I take her to the potty  (next to bed) the first time she wakes up which is between 11-12 or so.  She always goes. I REALLY would like to find a way to not nurse at 1:00am and 4am and maybe other times too. I would be doing this only in the hopes that she then would not sit up and ask for me but would get back to sleep without me waking up.

also, between 6 and 7 or so she nurses almost the whole time and tosses and turns (on me) is that typical?

IS there a way to end some night nursing withOUT crying? DOES it actually HELP a toddler sleep longer?

Thanks!!

[SimpleLove]

I was in the same exact position as you about 6 months ago. I should have nightweaned earlier but didn't believe anyone's advice. It actually worked though - I would just talk to her calmly in the middle of the night. At first, it was specifically about nursing, like "we can have milk when the sun comes up" or "it's empty" or whatever popped into my head while half asleep! We did that for a few days and she would calmly fall back to sleep. Then she miraculously started to actually 'sleep through the night'!! Currently, she will occasionally wake up and I say the same things about having milk later when we wake up, but often I can just tell her a quick little story about some animals on an adventure, like I said, whatever comes to mind. For the most part she still does that 7am tossing and turning nursing that you described, but after getting my first full nights sleep in 3 years, I don't mind that part so much.

ETA: I also started scratching/rubbing her back while she fell back to sleep - Not something we ever did before this transition - but she really, really enjoys that.

[mamabelle]

We had one bad week of tears at night while explaining night weaning, but after that DS totally got it and actually did start sleeping through the night!  Like the PP, we would rub his back and explain that he could nurse again when the sun came up and then repeat everything we could think of as sleeping- "It's nighttime.  Mama's sleeping, Dada's sleeping, nursies sleeping, doggies sleeping, etc.  We can wake up and nurse when the sun comes up."  Totally worth it for us, good luck!

[crunchy_mommy]

I don't know if there's a way to do it without crying, although that depends on your kid's temperament, but you can provide comfort and all so at least it's not like "CIO" type of crying. We partially night-weaned a little after DS turned 2 (he's 2.5 now & still nurses for the last few hours of the night). I waited until I felt he was physically & emotionally ready & showed signs of being able to sleep slightly longer stretches (this would probably be earlier for some people, DS has some issues). I would not advise doing it if you aren't positive your kid is ready, because it will be too hard on her (and you!)

I read Dr. Jay Gordon's nw'ing plan -- we didn't follow it really, but I did keep it in mind while devising my own process.He did cry at first, but I was right beside him holding and soothing him, and I felt like it was best for him because he was not sleeping well at all.

One thing that was crucial for DS -- that I discovered by accident! -- is that he would wake to nurse less frequently if he DIDN'T nurse to sleep. So he has his last nursing session an hour or two before bedtime, then has snacks if he needs them. It was hard getting him to sleep without nursing, but easier than dealing with excessive night-waking (and his certainly WAS excessive!!) I have no idea if that technique would help you but it's something you could try.

It absolutely did help him to sleep longer stretches, although as I mentioned before, I waited 'til he showed signs of being able to do this in the first place, so I don't know that the change was solely do to nightweaning, but it played a huge part. He used to wake up every 20-45 minutes all night long. I rarely got even a 1.5 or 2-hour stretch. Now, he sleeps 7-9 hours straight (and then nurses on & off for a couple hours before waking up... I think I will work on cutting this out in a couple months, hoping daylight savings time will ease the process!) He does sometimes wake once or twice during the night (maybe once a week or so, more or less) and usually I can just tell him he'll nurse when the sun comes up, but sometimes he kicks & screams so I have to tell a story or whatever to get him back to sleep.

Oh and bonus, we can now clearly tell if he's sick or something, i.e. he got an ear infection and we knew right away because his night-waking patterns changed, whereas before he woke so frequently, we wouldn't have been able to tell unless he complained while awake, which he rarely does since he seems to have a high pain threshold.

[kfillmore]

Thanks, I feel a glimmer of hope. Here are a few questions though-

Did you say "No" to nursing much during the day before night weaning? I alsmost never do. She has to wait sometimes but she is relentless about asking for milk. I wonder is we should practice during the day?

How exactly did you start? Did you just do it one day? SimpleLove did you have much crying?

thanks!

p.s. I actually do think recently DD has started to sleep a bit longer stretches. This may have motivated me becasue I think I actually felt almost rested one day.

[crunchy_mommy]

I didn't really say 'no' during the day at that point -- I mean, I'd ask him to wait a few minutes or whatever, but I don't remember saying no much, if at all. And yeah, just one day I did it, I think I actually had been thinking about it for awhile and one night he woke up and I just decided I wasn't going to nurse him so I got him back to sleep by singing & rocking. Surprisingly. he took it really well the first day or two -- but then once he realized it was a permanent thing (around day 3) he lost it, and we had about a week-long struggle of him kind of testing the limits/negotiating etc. (mostly crying). Anyway, he was a breastfeeding ADDICT before that, I mean he didn't even really eat solids 'til he turned 2 and he nursed every 20-30 minutes round the clock for that entire 2 years and freaked out about even waiting 5 minutes. I've never heard of a baby nursing as much as DS did. So I guess I kind of feel like it we were able to do it, pretty much anyone can do it.

[coldandsleepy]

My son nightweaned himself totally out of the blue a couple of months ago.  He had been a huge night nurser all his life and still woke up to nurse at least once (and often 2-3 times) up to that point.  I know this is not super helpful, but my point is... take heart, some kids just need to reach the point where they're done with it.

I think it helped that we introduced a cup of water next to the bed for if he woke up thirsty.  He does occasionally wake up and ask for that, though it's less and less frequent now. 

He does usually STTN now that he's nightweaned, which is totally great and has given me a new lease on life.  I didn't mind nursing him, but I'm amazed how much of a difference it makes for ME to get a long stretch of uninterrupted sleep.

I have noticed that he wants to nurse MORE in the daytime now that he's nightweaned though.  He had almost entirely day weaned before the nightweaning, and now he's back to asking to nurse basically every hour or every other hour in the day.  Sometimes I do say no now because I'm pregnant and my milk has dried up and dry nursing is not my idea of a good time...

[Marissamom]

when DD was 15 months we moved her bed (which prior to that she had been starting the night in) to her room thinking we were going to gradually get her sleeping longer stretches in her room. the first night she slept 12 hours. for the first couple of months she probably woke once at night 25 percent of the time, ad I would go in and nurse her back to sleep. now she wakes at night probably 1-2 times a month and usually DF puts her back to sleep. 

[kfillmore]

Ok a few more questions-

DD wakes up sometimes and goes back to sleep on her own. Is that typical to sometimes go back by herself and sometimes not?

Also, DD seems to wake up crying (the times she need me, comes to me) she may just cry right after she wakes I am not sure. Is it typical to wake up crying sometimes?

HOW HOW HOW to you handle the sad heartbreaking cry of you child????

[crunchy_mommy]

Originally Posted by kfillmore 

DD wakes up sometimes and goes back to sleep on her own. Is that typical to sometimes go back by herself and sometimes not?

Yes, normal, and hopefully will make nw'ing a bit easier for you since she's already able to go back to sleep on her own! One tactic that *might* work for you is giving her a cup of water whenever she wakes wanting to nurse. It will satisfy any thirst she has, but it won't be all that exciting, so eventually she'll probably stop waking for it (or only wake for it when she's REALLY thirsty). If you sense she's actually hungry those times she won't go back to sleep on her own, then you need to decide whether you want to give her a small (unexciting) snack when she wakes, or just keep nursing her for part of the night. If you're uncertain, I recommend partial nw'ing, which is what we did.... Pick a 5-6 hour stretch (coincide with your sleep patterns so it will get YOU the most sleep!) and don't nurse during that stretch. If she does well with that, you can slowly lengthen that stretch of time, or you might decide X hours is enough -- it doesn't have to be all or nothing. A little nightlight on a timer might help indicate when she can nurse & when she can't, and then you can add 10 mins more to the timer each night.

Originally Posted by kfillmore 

Also, DD seems to wake up crying (the times she need me, comes to me) she may just cry right after she wakes I am not sure. Is it typical to wake up crying sometimes?

HOW HOW HOW to you handle the sad heartbreaking cry of you child????

Well unfortunately I hear that heartbreaking cry many many times a day -- I'm certainly not immune to it but at this point, I've learned I can't always console it. (high-needs kiddo here!) But being convinced that nw'ing was the best for our whole family, including DS, is what helped me handle the crying for night-nursing. Plus I was still RIGHT THERE trying to calm him, he still slept beside me and all, I didn't abandon him. He wasn't happy about the change but he's also not happy when I tell him 'no' to eating chocolate 6 times a day, because I know it's best for him. If you're not sure it's best for your DD to nw, and not sure if she's physically or emotionally ready, then you might not be ready to nw. You need that resolve to get through the tears calmly & without 'giving in'. I didn't get that resolve 3 days in advance -- I got it suddenly, in the middle of the night one night, so that's when we started the process.

And yes, it's normal for some kids to cry when they wake, my DS does that, he just doesn't deal well with the asleep-awake transition. Sometimes singing to him or telling him a story helps.

[half-pigeon]

I could have written the original post word for word. my 2 year old wakes up every couple hours to nurse & then nurses continuously for the last few hours in bed. i am tired & done. we started nightweaning last week & it isn't going very well. he still wakes up a bunch & i end up moving to room to room, bed to bed & end up rocking him back to sleep. i am even more exhausted now, as i have moved my son into his own room. my son got sick so i decided to stop & try again later. i have a few questions for everyone who has gone through this. 

who handles the night wakings, you or partner?

is your child sleeping alone or with you?

how do you get your kid back to sleep?

if you nurse "when the sun comes up", do you nurse when it is early morning & the sun is up, but your child is still sleeping?

does anyone deal with frequent wakings during naps too &, if so, do you nurse back to sleep or how do you do it?

[iheartwren]

We mostly nightweaned at 16 months.  She was sleeping in her own room and still eating at least 3 times at a night plus waking other times.  We basically started pushing back the time she could have her first feeding 30 minutes every few days.  So if she ate at 12 then I wouldn't feed her until 12:30.  Instead I would send my husband in and he would bounce or rock her and she would sometimes cry and then when it was 12:30 if she was still awake I would go in and feed her.  Then I couple of days later I wouldn't feed her until 1:00 and so forth.  Anytime she would wake before the allotted time one of us would go in and rock or bounce her.  There was definitely crying (but one of us was always with her) but it got better and she started sleeping longer and longer. She started getting much better sleep and so did we.  we started feeling so much more functional and happy as a family as we stopped being so sleep deprived.  I highly recommend it.  It is worth it and you are not scarring your child because one of you is with her and you making a decision as a parent that will help your whole family.  Eventually we got so she would mostly sleep until 4  or 5 and I would feed her then.  we had a really hard time dropping that feeding and just went with it until she was 22 months and dropped it then quite easily by shortening the time I was nursing -decreasing 30 seconds or so each day until I just didn't nurse her anymore at that time....

[crunchy_mommy]

Originally Posted by half-pigeon 

I could have written the original post word for word. my 2 year old wakes up every couple hours to nurse & then nurses continuously for the last few hours in bed. i am tired & done. we started nightweaning last week & it isn't going very well. he still wakes up a bunch & i end up moving to room to room, bed to bed & end up rocking him back to sleep. i am even more exhausted now, as i have moved my son into his own room. my son got sick so i decided to stop & try again later.

It took us a good 2 weeks of even MORE sleep deprivation before he started staying asleep more & consistently. I think most kids do better by the end of the first week, but some take longer & just get worse before they get better! Sorry that you've had such a tough time with it, hopefully it will be easier when/if you try again! To answer your questions...

who handles the night wakings, you or partner? me... DH has tried once or twice but it just gets DS more upset

is your child sleeping alone or with you? in our bed

how do you get your kid back to sleep? at first, rocking in bed while singing to him... now, he usually goes back to sleep on his own if I say 'we'll nurse in the morning' but sometimes he needs me to hold him and other times it really helps him to list all his friends who DON'T nurse during the night (I don't know if it's the peer pressure or just hearing my voice, but it works wonders lol! "Mary doesn't nurse when it's dark out... Tommy doesn't nurse when it's dark out...")

if you nurse "when the sun comes up", do you nurse when it is early morning & the sun is up, but your child is still sleeping? yes... I'd like to stop that but I think I'm just going to let daylight savings time help us out in a couple months because I can't figure out how else to cut those sessions out without him waking up hours too early.

does anyone deal with frequent wakings during naps too &, if so, do you nurse back to sleep or how do you do it? DS basically stopped napping around 2, mostly because he would ONLY sleep on me while nursing the entire time, which I just couldn't handle anymore. Occasionally he falls asleep in the car or something, and once he wakes up, his nap is over (sometimes 10mins, other times longer). He was never a good napper so it's just as well, for us at least!

[half-pigeon]

thanks crunchy_mommy for the response. it is really helpful to know these things before i make my next plan of attack. we all woke up with a cold this morning so i will start again after everyone is healthy. a piece of the puzzle that i still need to figure out is whether cosleeping is still the best option for us, not sure if it is contributing to frequent wake-ups. i was hoping when i switched him into his own bed that he would miraculously STTN. no dice. 

[crunchy_mommy]

Originally Posted by half-pigeon 

thanks crunchy_mommy for the response. it is really helpful to know these things before i make my next plan of attack. we all woke up with a cold this morning so i will start again after everyone is healthy. a piece of the puzzle that i still need to figure out is whether cosleeping is still the best option for us, not sure if it is contributing to frequent wake-ups. i was hoping when i switched him into his own bed that he would miraculously STTN. no dice. 

I find co-sleeping makes it easier because a lot of times he'll wake up, see I'm there, and go back to sleep, or just cuddle up to me. It also helps me to be able to sing etc. without even turning over. I can't imagine how it would work with him in a separate bed, because he's just so far off from being ready for that. But I know some kids do wake up more if mom & dad are tossing & turning or snoring or whatever!

Good luck with your next try, & hope you guys feel better!

[LROM]

Originally Posted by kfillmore 

Also, DD seems to wake up crying (the times she need me, comes to me) she may just cry right after she wakes I am not sure. Is it typical to wake up crying sometimes?

HOW HOW HOW to you handle the sad heartbreaking cry of you child????

Oh my gosh, your last question "how do you handle the heartbreaking cry of your child?" was what almost drove me back to un-weaning my child or abandoning the nightweaning process so many times... but let me tell you I'M SO GLAD WE DID IT!

My journey was pretty complicated, with nightweaning successfully once (it was hard but Dr. Jay's method worked, and we did it at the same time we transitioned her to her own crib in her own room after cosleeping her whole first 17 months), and then relapsing after travelling and sharing a bed again so then nightweaning again which was MUCH harder and seemed cruel to all involved... to then pretty successfully nightweaning so she'd wake up once every 3 nights or so, usually able to go back to sleep with just a check in or a backrub (if you're really trying to nightwean you need to really NOT nurse during the night wakings, as hard as it is).  But sometimes it would be full on tantrum and take 45 min to get her back to sleep.

Your question about her cries became soooo relevant the 2nd 2 of the 3 times we weaned (the time I mention above and recently, with DD at 2.5 and successfully nightweaned but still nursing in the day, I stopped cold turkey after a car accident and meds).  With Dr. Jay's methond the first time, she definitely had some majorly tearful, heartbreaking nights, but I'd never say she got "hysterical".  When we backslid and then tried to do it again, it was like she'd realized that it didn't HAVE to end, and maybe if she freaked out enough about it, she'd get her way.  She would get HYSTERICAL.  Like at first you knew she was crying as a way of communicating and showing her displeasure.  But then it crossed into actual distress and she'd jump up and down and throw herself around the crib, try to hit her head on the crib or floor, try to jerk out of our arms if we were holding her and not care that she'd almost fall on the floor... it was beyond heartbreaking and felt so wrong.

I ended up going to a child psychologist who specializes in infant and toddler sleep struggles, and she was AMAZING to talk to.  It took her explaining why actually, at 2.5 yrs old (and this started applying back when dd was 20 months), she actually needed to learn that she can rely on herself, that she has coping skills she can use and needs to better develop to deal when there are changes or transitions that she doesn't want.  She also taught me how important it is to TALK to her and PROCESS the changes with her.  At 20 months (and definitely now at 2.5) we had conversations every morning about the night before, about how she felt, asking her to show me with her dolls what happened, and confirming for her that I'd be there for her the next night, but no matter what happened we wouldn't be going back to BF. 

It was hard for her every time but the processing was key, as was increasing my attention to her - just loving on her an extra amount beyond the regular love fest we usually had.  Also really listening to her and trying to be encouraging of her expressing herself while also being firm on the outcome not changing.

The psychologist also offered other ideas specific to our dd (after asking a LOT of questions about her and our family dynamic), but the essentials were a lot like Dr. Jay so if you haven't looked at that, I recommend it.

Now, after the cold turkey full weaning and some AWFUL awful nights AND days, dd is sleeping all the way through the night for the first time ever.  AND sleeping LONGER than she ever has.  And waking up and saying "I didn't cry!  I'm a big girl!"  She still gets upset sometimes at a time of day when we used to nurse, and I'm just very attentive and ask her what she wants, try to give her special treats for handling it so well, etc.  She's a real trooper and while I would never have chosen cold turkey, I seriously wonder if maybe it wasn't the best way for full weaning.  But that's another thread... :)

Hope this was helpful (sorry so long but since we went through it THREE times, I have a lot of thoughts on it!)  Another entirely different thread is how weaning helped strengthen DH's relationship with her, because now it wasn't all about the boobie the way it often was when he took her out for the day.

GOOD LUCK with whatever you choose! 

[CI Mama]

Here's another thread that you might find helpful: http://www.mothering.com/community/t/1282798/i-m-ready-to-stop-tell-me-how-please

It's got some stories about night weaning & complete weaning with toddlers.

It's definitely not a "one size fits all" experience!