Confused - bbt dip on 12 dpo, then rise on 13dpo?

[chapluqa]

This cycle I've been taking B-vitamins to support a longer LP length, which seems to be working as I would have expected to get spotting yesterday or the day before and AF today (13dpo). My LP was 10-12 days in previous cycles (depending on how pre-AF spotting is counted) so I thought it might help to take the B-complex.

My normal bbt during the luteal phase is around 98.4-98.6.  The strange thing is that my temp fell to 98.2 yesterday (making me think that AF was definitely on her way), but today was back up to 98.6!   I have never seen this before, in the past when my temp dropped, it stayed down and AF came along that evening.

I really don't think I'm pregnant. I ovulated earlier than expected this cycle so our BD pattern wasn't that great (O-1 and O +1). But on the positive side, thanks to grapefruit juice/robitussin I had noticeable EWCM before ovulation for the first time, so maybe there is a better chance because of that?

I have no particular symptoms other than tender, full feeling breasts (normal for me in the LP) and these vague crampy feelings which I would expect just before my period. I'm 31, we've been ttc for around 7 months and this is my third cycle charting temps.

Anyway what I'm really wondering about is whether it's normal to have a temp dip and then rise and still not be pregnant?  Has anyone experienced this?

I am very reluctant to POAS because my intuition is just telling me to wait it out. FF told me to test today but because I am expecting a longer LP this time I am holding off. But considering the temp fall/rise, maybe I am being overly cautious?

My chart is here if anyone wants to have a look:

http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/35d83a

Thanks for your input!

[mamaforever]

It looks like that 'dip' is just a normal fluctuation in your temp.  It's not a drastic change, so I would say it's caused by nothing out of the ordinary.  Many things can affect the temp other than just hormones- not sleeping well, virus, stress, etc.

Some women experience a dip from implantation, but I think it's pretty rare, and I would think it would happen between 7-11 DPO.  But it's also possible on day 12 as yours would show, if it is related to implantation.

By the way, the day before ovulation is your most fertile day, so that's good to BD on that day!  You still may be pregnant this cycle, so I'm hoping you are!  I just don't know if that small dip has anything to do with implanation, or if it's just a normal fluctuation.

[Jaimee]

Agreed... that dip is probably nothing other than normal variation and/or fluctuating hormones.  I see you got some EW on that day as well, which to me indicates a little estrogen surge.  This can happen randomly or it could be related to implantation as the pp mentioned.  Implantation occurs between 6 and 12 DPO.  84% of the time it happens between 8 and 10 DPO, but 12 is certainly possible.  However, since you mentioned that your typical LP is 10-12 days (mine too!), I doubt you would have been able to sustain a pregnancy implanting on the latest day possible.  It is likely you would have started AF by now and that would have probably caused a chemical pregnancy since the embryo would have only had a day to start producing enough hCG to alert the corpus luteum to remain intact.  Going a day past your longest LP is a great sign... three days past your longest LP is a very good sign.  I would imagine an HPT would be accurate at this point but follow your gut regarding testing.  I like to wait out the 18 days and then test so that I have double confirmation.

But if I had to make a guess at this point... I would say you're pregnant.  I would.  DTD the day before and the day after O is great timing.  Your chart is beautiful, btw... very clear, excellent biphasic pattern.  I can see why you think the dip is out of the ordinary b/c you have such consistent temps.  Take a look at my latest pregnancy chart.  I was certain AF was on her way several times.

[chapluqa]

Thanks for your replies!

I really don't know what to think, but my intuition is still telling me that I'm not pregnant and I just have to wait it out. All day yesterday I felt crampy off and on and I was absolutely sure I was getting my period last night, but it didn't happen. So I'm assuming AF will show today, and if not maybe I will have to go to the store and get a test.

[janellody]

Either way, I am anxious to see what the result is!  Keep us posted :)

[mamaforever]

Just checking up on this thread again and took another look at your chart---it's really looking like a pregnancy chart now!!!  Have you tested yet?

[Jaimee]

Agreed!  You're 3 days past your longest LP now and that is a very, very good sign of pregnancy.  Just one thought... if you don't test now and you end up bleeding in a few days you might always wonder if it was a chemical pregnancy, if you had super long LP, or if your O day was off by a bit.  But I also understand just wanting to wait it out, so go with your gut and keep us updated! 

[chapluqa]

Well, I tested the day before yesterday (14 dpo) in the afternoon and I'm 90% sure it was a BFN (there was a very very faint line but it appeared after the 10 minute window and was thinner than the control so I think it was evap).  When AF didn't show up yesterday, I tested again in the afternoon and got the same result. I know I should have used FMU and was planning to but I got impatient yesterday and went ahead even though my pee did not look very concentrated at all.

Now it's the morning of 16 dpo, my temps are still up (back to 98.6) but I have no other symptoms other than boobs feeling full and heavy as they do in the middle of the LP- last night they were sort of puffy and much more tender but now they feel less tender, just full and heavy.

I have come to the conclusion that one of two things is happening:

1 - I am indeed pregnant and my body is just taking a while in producing enough HCG to show up on a test - apparently some women don't get a BFP until they are a week or two late - maybe I'm one of those?

         OR

2 - The B-vitamin complex has extended my luteal phase by several days and kept my progesterone levels up and I should expect AF/temp fall any time (this possibility is appearing less and less likely every day but still possible I suppose)

It's so frustrating not to have a conclusive result yet! 

I'm tired of waiting now, but I don't know what I can do. I don't want to go to a doctor to get a blood test, I am generally anti-Western medicine for pregnancy/birth related issues (when I am pregnant I will find myself a homebirth midwife for prenatal care). I don't have a doctor here anyway since I've never needed one so I don't want to go through the hassle of finding one.

I suppose it's also possible that I ovulated later than FF tells me I did, but looking at my chart I think it could only be one day later at the most.

I'm trying to be    but as each day of uncertainty passes I feel more    and !!

[mamaforever]

Well, I am hoping you get a BFP soon!  Please keep us updated!

[janellody]

Yes, can't wait to see the results.. it does look like such a promising chart...

[Jaimee]

Hmmm... what tests did you use?  I would try a First Response Early Response with FMU tomorrow or the next day if AF doesn't show.  I think you're right on about the possibilities occurring here, but the likelihood that B6 has extended your LP to a rare 15-16 days is not very high.  I think a corpus luteum cyst might be more common than that (though I have no data to back that up).  At any rate, I'm pretty anti-western medicine when it comes to most things, but a lot of mw's will have you get a blood test to confirm as well.  So I figure, might as well have it covered by my insurance by using an OB or mw practice that is covered and then switch over to a hb mw after that.  Just an idea. 

[chapluqa]

Hi Jaimee, thanks for your continued interest, it really helps to be able to 'talk' to someone about this since the only person I'm talking to IRL is DH...

I used a cheap-ish strip test, Pregnosis brand (I think it's only here in Australia) - it's supposedly sensitive to 25 mIU so I accepted the BFNs as accurate.

I'm now at 17 dpo (Monday here in Australia) and still no sign of AF, temps still up and boobs feeling slightly bigger/fuller than yesterday. I am planning on taking FRER tomorrow morning with FMU.  I hope, hope, hope it will confirm my suspicions that I'm pregnant. 

The thing about going to the doctor for a blood test is that I don't know any doctors here and there aren't any who directly bill to my insurance (most people in Australia have public health insurance but since I'm not a permanent resident I have private insurance), it would be a major hassle to find a doc who could see me and would probably mean waiting for a few days before I could even get an appointment (there is a shortage of GPs here).  So I'd rather wait and hope for a BFP before going through all that hassle and expense. There's also the issue that once you go to a doctor here and confirmed pregnant, you're considered 'in the system' and they will eventually start hassling you to book into the hospital for birth, something which I will definitely not be doing.  

I'm starting to worry now that even if I am pregnant, getting my BFP so late means that I'm more likely to miscarry   Googling the issue brings up different answers,  nothing conclusive. 

I spent hours looking at the FF chart gallery for charts with BFN before BFP (who had first BFN at 14 dpo) and late BFP, and there seemed to be quite a few so hopefully I'm one of those 'lucky' few who get to wait longer to find out what's going on.

[kittenbritches]

chapluqa - Your chart looks *amazing* and definitely like a pregnancy chart IMO.  I'd venture to guess that you implanted at 12 DPO and your hCG is still building up (which would make sense with getting a - on 14-15 DPO).  I had a blood hCG test last month and the nurse at my GP's was telling me about a patient who didn't get a positive home pregnancy test until she was 8 weeks!  KMFX that you'll get your BFP tomorrow morning!

Oooh, and for funsies...here is your chart overlayed with my last pregnancy chart!  :D  I got my BFP at 11 DPO, which I believe was 5 days after implantation.

[chapluqa]

Thanks for the encouragement, kittenbritches!  Here's hoping you're right.  

It's cool to see my chart next to a verified pregnancy one - it does look good in comparison.  I really hope I don't have to wait too much longer to find out one way or another, I'm supposed to be finishing my PhD thesis in the next few weeks, and this has been such a major distraction from that (but a welcome one, of course  )

 I'll be sure to add an update after my FRER test tomorrow AM. It's only early afternoon here so I have almost the whole day to wait- just need to get to work in the meantime I suppose!  .

[chapluqa]

I bought a 3-pack of FRER and couldn't wait until tomorrow morning so I tested this afternoon after picking up DH from work.

(I was thirsty so I figured my pee would be nice and concentrated and there were 3 tests in the pack so I didn't feel the need to hold off for another day.

This is what I got:

 

I was actually feeling quite pregnant today (crampy but not AF cramps and big heavy boobs), so the BFP wasn't much of a surprise, but it's still totally AWESOME!!

Thanks to all for your support and advice! 

[Baby_Cakes]

Those are beautiful lines!!  Congratulations, mama!  

[kittenbritches]

Yayayayay!  I knew it!  Congratulations!!! 

[Jaimee]

I KNEW it!!!   Congratulations!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   FRER to the rescue again!  

As for miscarrying... really there is NO way to tell when you implanted based on just your chart.  One can guess of course, but that dip does not in any way confirm implantation at 12 DPO.  It's statistically unlikely that you implanted late not to mention even more unlikely that you would have sustained a pregnancy implanting on 12 DPO with your shorter LP.  Much more likely is that you just had an embryo that produces lower levels of hCG so it took longer to build up to 25 or your body metabolizes hCG at a lower rate into your urine.  Keep in mind that the hCG level is not what is important for viability- the doubling time is what is important.  Plus you were using cheapie tests that may or may not be great for early detection and you weren't using FMU.  All these things considered, I wouldn't think your chances of miscarrying aren't any greater than usual chances at this point.  So enjoy!

Edited by Jaimee - 8/22/11 at 12:15pm

[mamaforever]

Yay!!!!  I'm SOOO happy for you!!  Congrats!  

[janellody]

Awesome lines!!!  WOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! Congrats!!!!