High Needs Toddler support thread - Page 4

[sesa70]

I haven't had a chance to read through all the posts yet, but I have a question :) When does it cross the line from high needs/spirited or challenging to special needs? I just feel like our experiences with our daughter (also our 3rd) are so far outside the realm of anything I've experienced or seen with 'typical' children that I am starting to wonder if I have to face the facts that its not just about her being high needs but that maybe there is more going on? Has anyone else had these concerns?

[crunchy_mommy]

Originally Posted by sesa70 

I haven't had a chance to read through all the posts yet, but I have a question When does it cross the line from high needs/spirited or challenging to special needs? I just feel like our experiences with our daughter (also our 3rd) are so far outside the realm of anything I've experienced or seen with 'typical' children that I am starting to wonder if I have to face the facts that its not just about her being high needs but that maybe there is more going on? Has anyone else had these concerns?

Yes... my ultra-high-needs DS was in Early Intervention for a while & just had a private evaluation too actually. I don't have the eval results yet, but regardless of the official diagnosis, he does have some special needs... I want to say "mild" but they affect him (and our family) pretty profoundly so that word doesn't seem quite right! I guess what led me to believe there was something more going on was that things that work for others do not work for DS. I have read probably hundreds of books at this point, and many of them focus on high-needs kids, and even all their suggestions didn't work. It's also been clear since he was born that he has some sensory issues (particularly auditory) and his social issues became apparent when we started hanging around same-age kids a lot and he just really really struggled.

Is your DD under age 3? If so, you can get an EI evaluation for free. Services are usually free as well (PT, OT, speech therapy, play therapy, etc. depending what your child needs) and sometimes you can even get access to respite services, free preschool, etc. It can't hurt anything to get an eval, they even come to your house.

If she is over age 3 or seems to have more complex needs, you can get a private eval. The one we just did was with a neurodevelopmental pedi. Who you see for the eval really depends on what issues concern you -- it might be more appropriate to do something more targeted, like a speech eval or something, but the full comprehensive eval can be helpful (supposedly) when things seem hard to sort out. Another option is consulting a therapist -- we have been taking DS to play therapy for a while. It's fun for him, and she has helped quite a bit with his anxiety. Good thing about play therapy is almost anyone can benefit from it and there aren't really criteria to be eligible for it. Down side is the therapist may not have extensive experience with more specific developmental issues.

Hope that helps... from my own experience, I'd say trust your gut, and get some help sooner rather than later. I really wish we hadn't just let others (doctors, family, friends) placate us, ignore our concerns, etc. when I felt things weren't right for a long time. Things got really, really bad for us before we finally realized we needed to push harder for intervention. This sadly seems to be the case for many with issues that aren't immediately obvious.

[newmamalizzy]

Originally Posted by pickle18 

How is it going, newmamalizzy?  I am so sorry you are in this boat, but for what it's worth, this post has kept me sane the past few days!!!    Seriously, I keep repeating it in my head over and over (ESPECIALLY the part about the turkey - ha!) because it is SO EXACTLY what is going on over here, with my 20 month old.  

Near constant moodiness, everything is a tragedy (even if, like the turkey, it has nothing to do with him), 1-2 super mega meltdowns a day where he just can't recover and doesn't even know what he wants and just cries and screams for at least 30 minutes (he is super verbal, but words seem to fail him).   I had the exact same thoughts as you - he is like a verbal colicky newborn!  I don't remember this level of crazy emotional instability, except for when he was a babe.

For example, yesterday playing with magnets on the fridge - he lost it because he wanted to move some magnets, but wherever he moved them just brought more tears...a magnet broke (magnet part separated) and he lost it...magnets don't stick to paper (he knows this, but lost it)...wants to look in the freezer, then bursts into tears...etc. etc.  The worst was when he realized he ate the head off his gingerbread man - total upset meltdown - and then his dad ate an arm, in an effort to show him it was ok, you are supposed to eat it, and THAT was horrible - he was crying even more, searching in DH's mouth for the missing limb! 

He has always been an intense, sensitive dude - but this is just a new level of constant.  I think the major meltdowns would be easier to weather, without the CONSTANT screaming, crying, whining indignation at every turn.  The littlest things set him off.  I just don't know how to help him (other than holding/nursing him, calmly talking to him on his level, etc.), and I'm feeling a bit frazzled myself!

Thanks for asking, pickle18.  And sorry to hear that you're having this issue, too!  It sounds like your LO is sensitive in the way mine is with the whole meltdown-over-anything-negative thing.  I have to try really hard to filter the thoughts that I express out loud, or else she's upset all the time.  Oops, I burned the onions.  Auugghhhh!!  Oh, I guess we can't go to memere's after all.  Auuugghhh!!!  I think I missed the turn.  Auuuggghhh!!!!  The intensity has gotten worse, but she's always done it. 

Sometimes I feel like my daughter behaves just like I do when I'm in the throes of PMS.  Your description of your LO with the refrigerator magnets totally reminded me of that.  Can they just be raging with crazy hormones?  So sad/adorable, the image of your LO trying to retrieve the arm. 

DD has been a bit better since we've been home from Christmas, mostly because there's not as much that she has to do or as much for me to say no about.  I wish I had endless patience so that I could keep all of the upset impersonal and just be there for her, but I just get tired and frustrated sometimes.  I hate it when I get snippy with DD when I know full well that she can't control her behavior.  :(

[mamapenguin]

Just wondering if anyone has experience with starting their high needs toddlers in playschool.  My husband and I have been talking about enrolling our DD (who is almost 3) in playschool 2 mornings a week.  I could really use a break (I'm a SAHM) but I have some reservations about this.  DD is very anxious and transitions are really difficult.  To be honest, the thought of having to get her out of the house and to school by 9am sounds daunting to me - routine stuff like getting dressed is always very difficult, and the transition from house to car is also really rough, let alone the bigger transition of getting used to a new place, people, being away from me for the first time.  DH is really pushing for it because he is a very social person, and he's disturbed by the fact that DD has still shown no interest in playing with other kids.  We go to playgroups, but she pretty much wants to play with me, or will occasionally play on her own.  He feels like she needs more exposure and that she should be learning to interact better with other kids.  DH also doesn't like the fact that DD is so attached to me - he gets really frustrated that she only wants me, that she's still nursing etc.  He's hoping she'll find some new level of independence.  I don't have to go back to work for another year, so it's not like she has to go to school, and I kind of feel like I should just continue to give her some more time home with me - maybe she really needs that strong sense of security.  We go to a gymnastics class and 1 or 2 playgroups every week, so we do get out and see other kids and mamas.  I'm an introvert, but I do make an effort to get us out:)  If I really need a break, I could ask my mum to take her for a morning each week.

So, I guess my questions are - what was it like starting an intense/anxious kiddo in playschool?  Any tips?  Did school actually help them learn some social skills and new independence (that would hopefully lead to less whining and clinging behaviour at home, and perhaps the ability to play independently)?  Does this seem like a good idea, or will I be creating more problems?  Any input and perspectives would be appreciated.  

[crunchy_mommy]

Originally Posted by mamapenguin 

So, I guess my questions are - what was it like starting an intense/anxious kiddo in playschool?  Any tips?  Did school actually help them learn some social skills and new independence (that would hopefully lead to less whining and clinging behaviour at home, and perhaps the ability to play independently)?  Does this seem like a good idea, or will I be creating more problems?  Any input and perspectives would be appreciated.  

We have no experience with traditional playschool (and I am 99.9% certain it would be an utter disaster for DS!) but we have done a homeschool co-op that met 3-5 times a week.

On the plus side, his social skills/willingness to play with other kids have improved quite a bit since getting together regularly & consistently with the same kids and having a bit more structure (vs. just a playdate). His friendships have deepened and his play skills have expanded.

On the down side... he's picked up a ton of negative attitudes and behaviors from the other kids. He also seems to be very overstimulated by being around so many kids, and his behavior at home has gotten drastically worse -- aggressive & destructive, completely out of control -- and since noticing this we've started skipping most of the co-op days. It's just more than he can handle. And no, it did not lead to less whining & clinging while we were home at all... though less when we were out at this specific co-op. It hasn't extended to other outings with kids he doesn't know -- at storytime or other kid events he still will only interact with me & frantically cling to me.

[sesa70]

I have not done it yet, but I am almost positive I will be enrolling my super high needs almost 2 year old in montessori school within the next 6 months or so for 3 days a week. I just need some time away from the screaming and whining and tantruming. My husband is worried they won't accept her, but I hope to go observe a few classrooms in the near future to see. I kept my other two girls home with me as long as possible and was so sad to see them transition to school. With my current little one I feel like I need some time away from the extreme behaviors to recharge and be able to deal with them in a calmer and less emotional way. Plus I hope that she will benefit from the montessori environment. I wouldn't send her any other type of program, however, thats just me :)

 

 

About the special needs question I asked earlier... I actually *did* have my dd evaluated by EI, by speech, OT, DT, and Psych. She needed two areas to be found eligable, and the only one who did find she qualified was psych. She doesn't have any fine/gross motor or speech delays, her issues are sensory and behavioral, and those alone won't get her services :( Some days I just don't know what to do. She is so tantrumy and rageful, and shes so small. I worry about what our futures will be when its a 7year old or 13 year old throwing things and kicking the dog :(

[crunchy_mommy]

Originally Posted by sesa70 

 
About the special needs question I asked earlier... I actually *did* have my dd evaluated by EI, by speech, OT, DT, and Psych. She needed two areas to be found eligable, and the only one who did find she qualified was psych. She doesn't have any fine/gross motor or speech delays, her issues are sensory and behavioral, and those alone won't get her services Some days I just don't know what to do. She is so tantrumy and rageful, and shes so small. I worry about what our futures will be when its a 7year old or 13 year old throwing things and kicking the dog

Can you find a play therapist that would be covered by your insurance? I've definitely found it to be worth it for DS. What did the psych suggest?

[pickle18]

Originally Posted by newmamalizzy 

Thanks for asking, pickle18.  And sorry to hear that you're having this issue, too!  It sounds like your LO is sensitive in the way mine is with the whole meltdown-over-anything-negative thing.  I have to try really hard to filter the thoughts that I express out loud, or else she's upset all the time.  Oops, I burned the onions.  Auugghhhh!!  Oh, I guess we can't go to memere's after all.  Auuugghhh!!!  I think I missed the turn.  Auuuggghhh!!!!  The intensity has gotten worse, but she's always done it. 

Sometimes I feel like my daughter behaves just like I do when I'm in the throes of PMS.  Your description of your LO with the refrigerator magnets totally reminded me of that.  Can they just be raging with crazy hormones?  So sad/adorable, the image of your LO trying to retrieve the arm. 

DD has been a bit better since we've been home from Christmas, mostly because there's not as much that she has to do or as much for me to say no about.  I wish I had endless patience so that I could keep all of the upset impersonal and just be there for her, but I just get tired and frustrated sometimes.  I hate it when I get snippy with DD when I know full well that she can't control her behavior.  :(

^ All of this!!!  I completely relate.  He is in an incredibly emotional phase right now (even for him) - for a while, transitions and tiny separations (bathroom break, shower) were getting so much easier - and now they are horrific again.  He does remind me exactly of a hormonal, preteen girl (my DH wishes I would quit using that analogy, hahaha - but it's true!).  Every little thing = the whole sky falling.   And it's so heartbreaking sometimes, because I can see him trying so hard to cope - the trembling lip he's trying to hold stiff, the tears in his eyes, the frantic, deep breaths he takes while I explain that mommy's have to use the potty, too, and it will only take a minute and he can even stay in there with me - and he takes those gasping breaths and says, "Ok, mama, ok, mama" and then bursts into tears despite his best efforts.  I try to be there for him and help as much as I can.

Of course, there are definitely days where I feel like the well of patience I have to be a calm, loving mother just gets used up - too many big meltdowns and far too many little ones, and I just need to replenish my own peace, so I can be a better mom for him, ya know?  I start to feel like I *can't* help him, and that feeling sucks.  I hate to hear that exasperated edge creep into my voice, too.

mamapenguin - for my LO, there is just no way I can even think about that right now.  To me, as long as I can keep myself together 99.9% of the time, being loving and keyed into providing for his needs, that's obviously where he needs to be.  It sounds a little bit like your DH's view is colored by his temperament, and is trumping your kids' temperament/needs - do you have any indicators that she is ready for that transition?  Could you try a smaller experiment and see how it goes? (a smal, regularl separation leaving her with your mom or a friend?) Because I know with my DS, it would be a nightmare - it might even set him back worse, ya know?  I just figure, I will regain my independence as DS naturally gains his.  I definitely do not think you are doing your child a disservice by keeping them at home until they are ready - and I think parallel play at that age is still quite common.

[pickle18]

Originally Posted by sesa70 

I haven't had a chance to read through all the posts yet, but I have a question :) When does it cross the line from high needs/spirited or challenging to special needs? I just feel like our experiences with our daughter (also our 3rd) are so far outside the realm of anything I've experienced or seen with 'typical' children that I am starting to wonder if I have to face the facts that its not just about her being high needs but that maybe there is more going on? Has anyone else had these concerns?

Originally Posted by sesa70 

I have not done it yet, but I am almost positive I will be enrolling my super high needs almost 2 year old in montessori school within the next 6 months or so for 3 days a week. I just need some time away from the screaming and whining and tantruming. My husband is worried they won't accept her, but I hope to go observe a few classrooms in the near future to see. I kept my other two girls home with me as long as possible and was so sad to see them transition to school. With my current little one I feel like I need some time away from the extreme behaviors to recharge and be able to deal with them in a calmer and less emotional way. Plus I hope that she will benefit from the montessori environment. I wouldn't send her any other type of program, however, thats just me :)

 

 

About the special needs question I asked earlier... I actually *did* have my dd evaluated by EI, by speech, OT, DT, and Psych. She needed two areas to be found eligable, and the only one who did find she qualified was psych. She doesn't have any fine/gross motor or speech delays, her issues are sensory and behavioral, and those alone won't get her services :( Some days I just don't know what to do. She is so tantrumy and rageful, and shes so small. I worry about what our futures will be when its a 7year old or 13 year old throwing things and kicking the dog :(

Thank you for asking this question - it's something that I'm really curious about off and on - where that line is, and how best to help my kid.  I'm reading "How to Talk So Kids Will Listen..." right now, and it reinforces the way I've been trying to deal with his stormy emotions his entire life - I think it's better than not doing (naming, talking about what I see, helping him express himself physically punching pillows instead of people, etc.), but lots of times he just locks me out and nothing can help him.  He's just stuck in a rage, and it goes on and on until he is obviously scared (usually after he's thrown something big across the room, or just can't stop yelling and punching me or banging on walls) - then something gives way, and he sloooowly gets to the point where he is receptive to my voice or touch or nursing. 

He can be the sweetest, most sensitive, empathetic and aware lil boy I've ever met.  The kind of kid that apologizes to his toys because he *almost* bumped into them.  He just has epic tantrums, and right now, is in a super emotional phase - his world falls apart if a character goes off screen in a TV show, or a trash truck that he was watching drives away.  He is constantly whining and arguing - even with his toys, but especially with me (even if I'm not bothering him at all).  He melts if I make a wrong turn, or forget anything (like washing diapers, or to bring his backpack).  It is an absolute miracle to get clothes on him, at all, EVER - this one affects my life the most, because I feel like I'm hostage in my house.  No trick I've ever read works - he'll assent to getting dressed, especially to go do something he likes or suggests, then panics when the clothes touch him.  He's only 20 months old, but he's as big as a 3 year old, and STRONG - to the point where I can barely force him to get dressed by myself anymore, even if I wanted to strong arm him.  Like you, I wonder what is going to happen as he gets older... :-\  Transitions have always been a huge problem.  The only sensory behaviors I really see are that he's easily overwhelmed in loud, crowded environments - but the rest are sensory seeking - daredevil stunts, chewing on fingers, eating lots of jalapenos and other intense foods, etc.

It's hard for me, as he's my only child - so I'm constantly wondering what is normal toddler tantrum behavior, and what is something more?  Maybe he's just an intense kid who is sensitive, fearless and loves spicy food.  I'm just always trying to figure out how to meet his needs. 

[Peony]

Popping in for a few minutes. This is not my first HN child but I am soo OVER this. He is standing here screaming at me right now, just like he always does. I guess I am touch on a few points. My oldest was an insanely intense baby/toddler/preschooler. Screamed all the time, had to be touching me every single second, I couldn't even leave her with DH until she was 3 years old. She is 10 now. Along with the way she was diagnosed with Sensory Processing Disorder, dyslexia, and an anxiety disorder, I feel like she has basically struggled in every accept of her entire life. I did know from the time she was 3/4 that something was wrong, this just wasn't a HN child but no one would listen to me.  Two more children, none of which were easy and both have their won special needs, but all different and none were as insanely demanding as DD1 was. Then we got the bonus baby which has literally turned out to be a carbon copy of DD1 except for the anxiety. He does haven't those same problems she did as this age. He is 17 months now and OMG, I just need to rename him Monster. Part of it is that I have not slept in 10 years, I haven't had a second to myself, and then I get the worst fourth child ever. 

We did try preschool with DD1 when she was a anxious 4 year old. Let's just say it didn't end well! DD2 was very anxious too and we pulled her out and restarted her several times trying to make it work before I had to bail on the whole idea of preschool for her. I am deeply attracted to the idea of putting DS2 in a preschool next year but he'll just be two and I know there is no freaking way it would work. 6 hours a week without him screaming though sounds like heaven. 

[luckiest]

Originally Posted by Peony 

Popping in for a few minutes. This is not my first HN child but I am soo OVER this. He is standing here screaming at me right now, just like he always does. I guess I am touch on a few points. My oldest was an insanely intense baby/toddler/preschooler. Screamed all the time, had to be touching me every single second, I couldn't even leave her with DH until she was 3 years old. She is 10 now. Along with the way she was diagnosed with Sensory Processing Disorder, dyslexia, and an anxiety disorder, I feel like she has basically struggled in every accept of her entire life. I did know from the time she was 3/4 that something was wrong, this just wasn't a HN child but no one would listen to me.  Two more children, none of which were easy and both have their won special needs, but all different and none were as insanely demanding as DD1 was. Then we got the bonus baby which has literally turned out to be a carbon copy of DD1 except for the anxiety. He does haven't those same problems she did as this age. He is 17 months now and OMG, I just need to rename him Monster. Part of it is that I have not slept in 10 years, I haven't had a second to myself, and then I get the worst fourth child ever. 

Off topic a bit, but it might be worth looking into a book called Gut and Psychology Syndrome, the GAPS diet.  There is a ton of research out there compiled by Dr Natasha Campbell-McBride that connect these exact disorders (along with many others) to gut health, and there are many, many powerful healing testimonials out there from her diet protocol.  Just an FYI!

[gitanamama]

Originally Posted by sesa70 

I haven't had a chance to read through all the posts yet, but I have a question :) When does it cross the line from high needs/spirited or challenging to special needs? I just feel like our experiences with our daughter (also our 3rd) are so far outside the realm of anything I've experienced or seen with 'typical' children that I am starting to wonder if I have to face the facts that its not just about her being high needs but that maybe there is more going on? Has anyone else had these concerns?

I'm in tears right now, after reading through this thread, because finally someone can relate!! Sesa70-- I was about to write a post identical to yours in the "Toddler" thread. Today I was hit with this realization that maybe there's more going on with DS-- maybe he's more than just *spirited* and strong-willed-- and maybe I'm failing him by not looking into this more deeply. I spent hours on Google, which ended me up here...which is where I should have started looking for support in the first place!

Pickle and newmamalizzy-- your posts describe my son to a T. The whining and meltdowns are almost constant, the temper tantrums are epic. My son spends so much of his time raging against the world and against us-- it makes me really sad! (And angry and exhausted and totally overwhelmed. Hearing a toddler whine and scream on and off over the course of the day can really wear you down...) He can be soooo sweet and caring, and he's very bright and advanced-- great verbal skills (he's bilingual) and motor skills--- but so much of our day gets lost in dealing with "tragedies"--- a broken graham cracker, train tracks that don't hook together, having to wait 5 minutes to go outside.....  None of the GD techniques seem to work. I try to empathize, give him options, not get caught in power struggles, etc. but nothing seems to help once DS gets going. Tantrums end only when he gets so worked up that he is at the point of vomiting and then, and only then, can I comfort him by holding and cuddling him. 

I've spent the past hour ready about Sensory Processing Disorder, and while DS fits many of the characteristics, he doesn't have the main ones. He hates loud noises and the feeling of socks, he's very shy and withdrawn around new people, and has extreme tantrums.....but, he's also  very coordinated and physically advanced, very easily engaged. I've considered dietary issues, but there are no physical signs--- no issues with digestion, no rashes, and neither DH nor I have any allergies.

Whew. There's a hot bath calling my name--it's been a long day! I'm so glad my crazed google-searching led me to this thread-- just knowing that other mamas are dealing with the same issues is somehow of consolation....

[newmamalizzy]

Funny, I was just thinking about posting on this thread. Gitanamama, I'm so sorry that you're struggling with your LO right now. Just wanted to tell you that I read Out of Sync Child and didn't really fit. That said, I've still had success incorporating a bit of "sensory diet" into our life. It most definitely can't hurt to try.

I was actually coming on to mention that my DD's rough spell from my last posts lasted over a month. One day at the end if Feb she just... Snapped out of it, and was more mature than she's ever been before. Last week she got another cold, from which she's still recovering, and lo and behold, she's having the same crazy behavior again. Whiny, clingy, can't stop talking, can't seem to understand anything I say, freaking out all the time. I'm not sure what to conclude from this, but I kind of hope she never gets sick again....

[gitanamama]

Thanks newmamalizzy-- today was better. I think after my meltdown last night, I was able to be more patient with DS. We stayed busy most of the day, which seems to help. I think DS needs stimulation and engagement-- almost constantly-- otherwise he gets bored and frustrated and loses it. Or at least that's my current theory.

Originally Posted by newmamalizzy 
 

can't stop talking, can't seem to understand anything I say, freaking out all the time. 

This really stood out at me--- DS often says "huh?  " over and over when I'm trying to explain something to him. I KNOW he knows what I'm saying, or is at least capable of understanding. But sometimes it's like his brain doesn't digest the words that go in. The huh? huh? huh? drives DH crazy and then it escalates from there-- usually with DH raising his voice (in the way people obnoxiously do when talking to people who speak a different language-- as though more volume will help...) The raised voice triggers DS, who just gets more frustrated, and then ends up in hysterical tears. And the talking---oh my goodness. DS talks all. the. time. I'm a pretty quiet person, so his constant need for conversation can drive me a little batty. 

I have noticed that DS gets really difficult before a big developmental leap. The few months before he started walking and talking were really rough. I can't think what he might be leaping into now, but I suppose time will tell.

Hoping tomorrow is another easy day.