kindergarten day 2 problem

[chaimom]

Apparently my dd thought she'd really finally learn something in K.  She came home mad yesterday, on the 2nd day, because they had read "baby books."  The text was "I like school, I like to glue, I like to read, I like to play...."   My dd said, "I want to read words like coincidence, not that baby stuff!"

She's had a reading assessment, after which the teacher told her and us that she'd have to order a new series that's challenging enough for my dd.  So I know she'll eventually be challenged.  

Problem is, my dd is still going to have to do some of this kind of work, because it also involves coloring and cutting and the whole class does it.  I don't want my dd to tell the new readers in class that these are baby books, because they're age appropriate.  But I also like the idea that my dd will advocate for herself and tell the teacher she'd like something more difficult.  I don't know whether she's mature enough to advocate in a way that's not rude or off-putting. 

FWIW, my boys were in this K, too... and did reading pull-outs, which were eventually stopped because my really strong reader was reading at 4th grade level, and none of us thought he should be with 4th graders.  I think this will be the case for my dd, too, who reads at 2nd grade level right now.  This school has a great HG program that starts in 1st grade, so I want to keep her at this school.

How would you handle this?

[MomofSev]

I would explain that, though she is wonderful at reading, some people in her class are just learning. Maybe she can help them learn to read.

[mambera]

And that the other children may have other things that they do better than she does (eg cartwheels or drawing pictures), that she can learn from them also.

[whatsnextmom]

It sounds like she's in a good place. Like you said, they are ordering her new material and they've already demonstrated an ability to work with high ability kids. I think you just need to lay it all our there for her. Yes, kindergarten is easy right now. In all honestly, it's likely too easy for almost all the kids right now. They do that on purpose to help kids transition to the longer days, new structure, new expectations. Her teacher recognized she's able to read higher level material but it's going to take a little bit to get her accomodations in place. Until then, your DD needs to be patient and continue to do the work given to her the best she can and with a good attitude.

Work with her on her wording. Fact is, those books aren't "baby" books. I won't say it never happens but it's very rare for actual babies (infants) to read. They are just less complicated and that doesn't make them less valuable. I swear, some of our favorite books were early readers. They can be clever and fun. Pull out her compassion. Have her think about what it would feel like to have her big brother look at her 2nd grade book at home and call it a "baby book." 

Originally Posted by MomofSev 

I would explain that, though she is wonderful at reading, some people in her class are just learning. Maybe she can help them learn to read.

I actually wouldn't go this route. It's a nice idea in theory but from our experience, one that doesn't work too well for either party. To teach, you really need to understand learning. Often, gifted children have no concept or perspective on how the average child learns. They usually can't even explain to you how they themselves learned a skill. They can be impatient with peers they see as not really trying. That's not to say that there are "some" gifted kids who are good tutors to their peers but most are not. That's also not to say those who aren't good at it in the younger grades won't develop into excellent teachers to younger children as they grow. It's just not a position I reccomend putting a gifted kindergartener who calls kindergarten material "baby books."

[joensally]

What whatnextmom said.  This is an opportunity for perspective taking.

I would not allow my child to become the teacher of other children because it takes away from their own learning time (which the school/teacher should be filling), can lead to poor social dynamics, and reinforces the notion of difference.  It's sound pedagogy to have students teach others to reinforce their own learning, but that's not what this is about.

My DS could not tolerate kindergarten.  He was very, very impatient with the time spent on colouring, alphabet and number instruction etc.  I think that it's a temperament issue.  DD was more flexible.

[KCMichigan]

Originally Posted by MomofSev 

I would explain that, though she is wonderful at reading, some people in her class are just learning. 

Originally Posted by mambera 

And that the other children may have other things that they do better than she does (eg cartwheels or drawing pictures), that she can learn from them also.

THIS is the approach we used in PreK when DDs expressed shock that other kiddos could not read and/or did not know their names/letters/etc. 

It worked well. They now will state that for things that they are still learning to do and articulate it daily. (I can read really well, and am working on riding my bike. X can ride thier bike, but is still learning to read. Isn't it fabulous that we BOTH are good at different things!)

At this age, they can process the sorting/comparing in a positive light with some adult guidance on wording.

Originally Posted by whatsnextmom 

It sounds like she's in a good place. Like you said, they are ordering her new material and they've already demonstrated an ability to work with high ability kids. I think you just need to lay it all our there for her. Yes, kindergarten is easy right now. In all honestly, it's likely too easy for almost all the kids right now. They do that on purpose to help kids transition to the longer days, new structure, new expectations. Her teacher recognized she's able to read higher level material but it's going to take a little bit to get her accomodations in place. Until then, your DD needs to be patient and continue to do the work given to her the best she can and with a good attitude.

Ditto this. The start of the year is more on transitioning into school than academics. If your DD is still not working on things at the correct level in a few weeks, I would bring it up. But it sounds great that you have a teacher willing to work with her.

Work with her on her wording. Fact is, those books aren't "baby" books. They are just less complicated and that doesn't make them less valuable. 

Some of my DDs favorite books are picture books! The vocabulary/concepts can actually be quite high.  Early readers can be fun for rhymes and rhythm as well. 

I would NOT go the 'teach other kids route'. Not good. One of my DDs was 'assigned' as class reader when she was 4 in preschool/PreK and that backfired. We really really had to reign her in and she found it frustrating on many levels. Young kiddos simply dont understand how to explain how they know how to read, reading is very complex process. GT also can make the kiddos learn information differently.

Sounds like a good start to be honest, your teacher seems supportive and willing to differentiate.

At 5/6 kids are still learning tact. Some learn it quicker than others-- it is a developmental phase. I would do some role playing (you pretending to know or not know how to do something--reading, riding a bike, throwing a ball, writing, etc) and practice things she could say to help and/or speak to other kids.   Same with the teacher--- practive how she can ask. 

I have found that for my 5 yr olds, that it I help them practice more 'polite' ways of asking it has also given them more confidence to ask w/o worried about being misunderstood or rude.

Edited by KCMichigan - 8/21/11 at 4:28pm

[UrbanMamma]

You've been given good advice.  I felt the same way in K and my mom/teacher made it clear that they would allow me to work ahead but only during certain times in the day.  Once expectations were clear, things went a lot smoother.

I do have one question - why isn't the K teacher borrowing a couple of books from the library and/or 2nd grade classroom until her own set gets there?  First weeks of school are hectic for the teacher but I would hate to have the situation get worse.  Maybe you can offer to look in the school library for more appropriate skill books for independent reading time.

[whatsnextmom]

Originally Posted by KCMichigan 

One of my DDs was 'assigned' as class reader and that backfired. We really really had to reign her in and she found it frustrating on many levels. Young kiddos simply dont understand how to explain how they know how to read, reading is very complex process. GT also can make the kiddos learn information differently.

Kindergarten was a big mess for DD because of two things. DD did turn into the class reader and so all the kids would constantly ask her to read things. Then, they started to copy her work or worry when their answers didn't match hers. They had to iscolate DD during work just so the others could focus on their own. The kids started asking me things like "why is DD so smart and I'm not." Totally heartbreaking and DD felt so guilty about it. On top of that, every kindergartener had a 5th grade reading buddy which is a delightful program usually. However, DD read far better than the 5th grader assigned to her. She would correct him nicely but it flustered the poor kid to no end. She ended up having to be buddies with the 5th grade teacher. DD only lasted until winter break in kindie but yeah, putting a kid in an adult role in a kindergarten class can certianly backfire.

[minkin03]

I agree with the others about approaching it with "everybody learns at different paces" and "everybody has something they are good at". 

[MomofSev]

that is really sad and not something I would have thought of. Thanks for providing this insight. I could see this being a problem for my DS

Originally Posted by whatsnextmom 

Kindergarten was a big mess for DD because of two things. DD did turn into the class reader and so all the kids would constantly ask her to read things. Then, they started to copy her work or worry when their answers didn't match hers. They had to iscolate DD during work just so the others could focus on their own. The kids started asking me things like "why is DD so smart and I'm not." Totally heartbreaking and DD felt so guilty about it. On top of that, every kindergartener had a 5th grade reading buddy which is a delightful program usually. However, DD read far better than the 5th grader assigned to her. She would correct him nicely but it flustered the poor kid to no end. She ended up having to be buddies with the 5th grade teacher. DD only lasted until winter break in kindie but yeah, putting a kid in an adult role in a kindergarten class can certianly backfire.

[KCMichigan]

Originally Posted by whatsnextmom 

Kindergarten was a big mess for DD because of two things. DD did turn into the class reader and so all the kids would constantly ask her to read things. Then, they started to copy her work or worry when their answers didn't match hers. They had to iscolate DD during work just so the others could focus on their own.

Yup--- this is what happened in  to one of my DDs in both  Preschool/PreK. They had reading buddies with 2nd & 3rd graders that needed 'practice'.....we that did not GO WELL AT ALL. Both DDs read with the teachers after a few times if that.

That said-- both DDs could read very well in both 3/4 yr preschool and 4/5 PreK, but only one DD was 'vocal' about it and verbally steamrolled her peers (in a 'I'm 3/4 and I really really cant wait to share my answer way") without meaning to be rude, she simply knew the answer and did not have the maturity to wait for her turn to share. Other DD would answer questions correctly, but rarely volunteered the information w/o prompting or being called on.

 I will say that 3 turning 4 preschool was a much bigger success than 4 turning 5 PreK. When they were younger, they really the social practice and learn the 'school' environment. Plus they had REALLY GOOD teachers that provided books at their levels. At 4 turning 5 it really was kind of a 'filler' year and good thing it was playbased since the teacher did little differentiation but did suggest both DDs for skipping K totally.

So some of it depends on personality.

Due to various circumstances- DDs will go straight from PreK to 1st. Hopefully, this will not be as big of an issue since most 1st graders can read to some degree and most will be older than DDs (they will be 5 turning 6).
 

[whatsnextmom]

Originally Posted by KCMichigan 

Other DD would answer questions correctly, but rarely volunteered the information w/o prompting or being called on.

My DS was like this. He just loved being having a room full of people to interact with. His kindie teacher didn't even know he could read until the end of the year. Since it wasn't important to DS for her to know, we just let it go. He had a GREAT time in kindergarten. Amazing how different kids can be!

[Miss Information]

You can ask your child and her teacher if your dd could write her OWN books.  When oldest dd was in K, she got the idea to start writing her own stories and illustrating them.  So in addition to the reading and block building and puzzle centers, they also made a WRITING center for those kids who read really well.  It was a hit.  A few of the better readers wrote and illustrated stories to read to the classroom.  The children's "books" were added to the little library nook and they got them back at the end of the year.

To me, rather than simply focusing on the reading/comprehension...the child gets to develop another aspect of language skills.  I know in our school, they are starting to teach the 6 traits of good writing starting in K (modified to the skill level of each grade). 

Great readers don't necessarily make great writers...at least in the early years.  Some kids (like my oldest) is great at reading complicated vocabulary, but doesn't necessarily USE complicated vocabulary in her writing (which hopefully will change this year).  She gets stumped creatively sometimes too.  Now dd2 is much more creative in her writing and the trajectory of her reading took a more sharp incline and her teacher taught her more comprehension skills - yes, she was given worksheets and taught how to analyze the story parts.  It was just like what's the main idea and find three supporting facts, who are the main characters, what's your opinion of the story, etc.

So, IMHO, I think there are other things to be done besides just give them harder books to read. 

[MomofSev]

This is a fantastic idea!!!
 

Originally Posted by Miss Information 

You can ask your child and her teacher if your dd could write her OWN books.  When oldest dd was in K, she got the idea to start writing her own stories and illustrating them.  So in addition to the reading and block building and puzzle centers, they also made a WRITING center for those kids who read really well.  It was a hit.  A few of the better readers wrote and illustrated stories to read to the classroom.  The children's "books" were added to the little library nook and they got them back at the end of the year.

To me, rather than simply focusing on the reading/comprehension...the child gets to develop another aspect of language skills.  I know in our school, they are starting to teach the 6 traits of good writing starting in K (modified to the skill level of each grade). 

Great readers don't necessarily make great writers...at least in the early years.  Some kids (like my oldest) is great at reading complicated vocabulary, but doesn't necessarily USE complicated vocabulary in her writing (which hopefully will change this year).  She gets stumped creatively sometimes too.  Now dd2 is much more creative in her writing and the trajectory of her reading took a more sharp incline and her teacher taught her more comprehension skills - yes, she was given worksheets and taught how to analyze the story parts.  It was just like what's the main idea and find three supporting facts, who are the main characters, what's your opinion of the story, etc.

So, IMHO, I think there are other things to be done besides just give them harder books to read. 

[Imakcerka]

This happened to DD1, it was very hard for her and she developed some discipline issues.  I took her out of her 2nd grade class and kept her home for the  rest of the year because it just didn't get better.  Her teacher though wasn't supportive.  He tried to dumb her down and wouldn't allow her to go to her advanced classes.  This issue was remedied though don't worry.  Anyway I put her back in this year and we'll see how it goes.  Her new teacher is aware that her reading level is nowhere near grade school and her math level isn't either.  However she's very immature in someways.  It wouldn't be fair to her to move her up. 

BUT... my DD2 is a slow learner and for some reason that gives me a little piece of mind,  she's on target with the rest of her class and it's looking like there will be no problems. 

[insidevoice]

Originally Posted by whatsnextmom 

My DS was like this. He just loved being having a room full of people to interact with. His kindie teacher didn't even know he could read until the end of the year. Since it wasn't important to DS for her to know, we just let it go. He had a GREAT time in kindergarten. Amazing how different kids can be!

This was what my daughter started out doing, sadly, she then decided to pretend she didn't know how to read to fit in.  I finally decided to go see what was happening, and she had begun to model her behavior after whatever the child who answered before she did had just done. 

Once the teacher was aware and began to differentiate, DD was better challenged, but after grade 1 we pulled her out because it just wasn't a school that was going to work with her, they insisted on trying to keep all the kids very much at one level and DD was frustrated and anxious. 

[whatsnextmom]

Originally Posted by insidevoice 

This was what my daughter started out doing, sadly, she then decided to pretend she didn't know how to read to fit in.  I finally decided to go see what was happening, and she had begun to model her behavior after whatever the child who answered before she did had just done. 

Once the teacher was aware and began to differentiate, DD was better challenged, but after grade 1 we pulled her out because it just wasn't a school that was going to work with her, they insisted on trying to keep all the kids very much at one level and DD was frustrated and anxious. 

That wasn't the case with DS. He just didn't see the point of academics when there was so much fun to be had. He started reading in class when it became fun to read in class. Neither of my kids are effective blenders. We did end up moving him to a different school for 1st grade but not because of this. The opportunity to be in a language immersion program opened up and we snatched. He's going into 6th grade now and while he could care less about being 1st in his class or anyone recognizing him as smart, he doesn't hold back what he knows on purpose.
 

[insidevoice]

She was ok for about half of K, but when she was outed and asked to do more she didn't want to be different.  In hindsight, it might have been better just to allow her to have fun.  She LOVED the art/play/experiential parts of K, but when it came to the academics she was stressed because she was trying so hard to be the same as the other students. 

I think that in a school better able to deal with the differences in a positive way it would have been ok, but our school system is not one good at thinking outside the box. 

[whatsnextmom]

Originally Posted by insidevoice 

She was ok for about half of K, but when she was outed and asked to do more she didn't want to be different.  In hindsight, it might have been better just to allow her to have fun.  She LOVED the art/play/experiential parts of K, but when it came to the academics she was stressed because she was trying so hard to be the same as the other students. 

I think that in a school better able to deal with the differences in a positive way it would have been ok, but our school system is not one good at thinking outside the box. 

School attitude makes all the difference. My eldest did not have a good kindie experience. She didn't try to blend in but she got really depressed and struggled with the class response to her abilities. She was moved to first grade after winter break. She was still the advanced one but it wasn't the social issue it was with her age peers.

[insidevoice]

Originally Posted by whatsnextmom 

School attitude makes all the difference. My eldest did not have a good kindie experience. She didn't try to blend in but she got really depressed and struggled with the class response to her abilities. She was moved to first grade after winter break. She was still the advanced one but it wasn't the social issue it was with her age peers.

My DD is 2E, the social piece is just *not there* at an age or peer appropriate level.  She's only just beginning to be able to understand it enough to want to try to make the effort to fit in with kids appropriately.  She will have a very mature and appropriate conversation with adults  but she will try to seek out peers who are actually younger as playmates because she can't cope with the emotional/social issues that are age appropriate for her.  Now that she's able to see what she's doing (and read about it, because a text book or research journal is so much more reliable than Mom or even her therapist) she's making great strides in terms of choosing to fill in the missing social and emotional bits.  She's nearly 10, and I suspect that she'll largely 'get it' over the next couple years.  

Ahh- the combination of Aspergers and  a profoundly gifted kid.  If we'd had both 'labels' early on it would have been easier to help her and point her in the right direction, but the special needs were well masked for a long time.